SuperEyePatchWolf: "Shenmue III is a terrible game and I've wasted my life"

[Dietsoap]

Yeah, but I mean, you can't argue all about how REALISTIC Shenmue is compared to other games and how deep and advanced these night-time conversations are compared to other open world games , then laugh off people complaining about all the weird, unrealistic things that happen in Shenmue. Sort of a paradox, y'know. Personally, I'll accept any degree of unreality in a video game because it's a VIDEO GAME, but things that slap me in the fact with their silliness are hard to ignore.

True, but autistic people are very real.

 

[iknifaugood]

What I'm sensing is what's been said in that if someone made a positive only video of Shenmue III, it would rightly be queried.

Here a generally negative view on the game, no matter how honest or dishonest, is subject to the same scrutiny from the other side of the fence and what some seem to find difficult is that this works both ways.

It seems to me that if you criticise Shenmue III then that's all fine (and it is, this is a discussion forum). But if you dare like it people wonder in here shouting you down because of their own view like it's a personal insult. Granted I've seen this on both sides but the point stands.

There's definitely truth to this but it's just confirmation bias. People who like the game will agree and defend reviews that praise it, people who don't like the game will agree and defend reviews that criticize it. It's almost impossible to talk someone out of an opinion they hold. There are people who love Batman v Superman and all the thousands of take-down videos on the internet haven't been able to change their opinion.

C'mon, this is just light humor.

Yeah, I know, it's just the only thing I could think of off the top of my head. Shenmue has never had great writing, but I found S3 to be markedly worse.

 

[WuyingRen]

While I don't have the game installed, I clearly remember awkward fades to black, weird camera resets, strange animations, and the inability to skip dialogue to varying degrees of frequency. I know that dialogue skip has since been patched in, perhaps some of the other issues have since been remedied? I believe the fades to black happen when a "cutscene" as opposed to simple "dialogue" ends, but occasionally it will fade to black and Ryo will be standing in the exact same spot, which is very weird but personally I found the jarring camera resets and strange angles far more distracting/frequent.

The random camera jumps were another bizarre choice, imo, but they are an entirely separate issue and nowhere near as jarring as the random dips to black in that opening sequence. Had he said something along the lines of ‘one of the opening cutscene sequences had these really weird dips to black and some of the later cutscenes have random camera jumps.’, then fair enough - but that’s not what he says.

I played through the game twice before the first patch and honestly don’t recall any instances outside of that opening sequence, but by all means, if you can show me footage that demonstrates that they occur in all of the game’s conversations, I’ll happily concede the point.

The translation is poor, and there are several instances of nonsensical dialogue or Ryo simply saying "I see" to everyone. This is especially egregious when Ryo refers to a second Shenmue tree in his journal and says that the Cliff Temple is where he got the scroll. I played in Japanese because I don't consider the bad voice acting to be an asset and I still cringed at how bad much of the dialogue is (Ryo calling an old lady "gorgeous"); most of it is serviceable but it's notably bad far worse than similar games especially because of how much S3 requires you to talk to random NPCs.

We’re in complete agreement that localization and the direction of the English voice actors wasn’t up to scratch, but do you honestly think that the clips he chose to demonstrate this point are reflective of the game’s English dub as a whole? You just said that you think that most of it is serviceable, which is certainly not the impression given to viewers in this video.

The title is "Shenmue 3 is a Terrible Game and I've Wasted My Life", let's break it down. First "Shenmue 3 is a Terrible Game", pretty self-explanatory, he thinks S3 is a terrible game; he's hardly alone in that assessment. Second "and I've Wasted My Life", he mentions in the video that he played S1 and 2 when they came out so he's spent most of his life waiting for S3, hoping it would be good. He concludes that this has left him stuck in the past, wishing for things to be as they once were and was faced with the reality that that's not going to happen. He's made videos about the Simpsons in a similar vein; about how nostalgia can be a trap. It's clickbaity, sure, but it's attention grabbing, and sends the message that this is coming from a fan, and it has a thoughtful analysis behind it, so I excuse it.

If he genuinely thinks that the game is terrible, I have absolutely no issue with this part of the title; but the ‘I wasted my life’ part is complete overkill. I’m glad that we can agree that it’s click-bait, but disagree that him having once been a fan or that he spent 48 minutes exaggerating problems excuses this.

They aren't? Every day Shenhua wakes Ryo up in a cutscene, asks if he got enough rest when he walks by her in the kitchen, and when you run near the Shenmue tree she tells him to have a good day in a cutscene. None of these could be skipped pre-patch and I don't think the fact that the phrases change slightly invalidates his criticism.

For starters, whether or not Shenhua wakes Ryo up depends on their relationship. The game begins with Ryo waking up alone to his alarm and later progresses to her poking her head around the door before actually entering the room to wake him. She says goodbye to him when he leaves the house, which narratively speaking makes a lot of sense. If anything, her saying absolutely nothing as Ryo left would be completely bizarre.

Either way, we’re talking about 30 seconds here of a 1 hour plus day cycle and if it is really that much of an annoyance to the player, the cutscenes can be skipped (they might not have been skippable at launch, but that patch has been out for 6 months or so now). Him saying that they are unskippable is inaccurate at the very least and dishonest if he knew about them becoming skippable post launch (which I’d be very surprised if he didn’t considering when this video was released).

His point is not that it's the same cutscene over and over. His point is that it's unskippable (at release), and wastes the player's time (something of a theme with S3) in the most archaic way possible. Why are we forced into these cutscenes? Why can't Shenhua just passively say something as you walk by? Why does the gameplay need to be interrupted here? This may be nitpicky, and I hardly think his overall opinion hinges on it, but it's the kind of thing that gets really annoying when repeated every day, especially when those days are so devoid of meaningful progress.

That is exactly his point. He says as much and then makes a point of showing the cutscene repeatedly whilst making sure to tell the viewer that they are different recordings.

It is nit-picky, but this and many other criticisms like it set the tone of the whole video and probably account for around a third of it if you remove the introduction and the fan-fiction section at the end.

Yea I agree, this was a very weak argument and not something I experienced. Again though, he's illustrating Shenmue's willingness to stop the gameplay, smash to cutscene of something innocuous, and then repeat that every time.

Has he played a Shenmue game before?

The degree to which the stamina/food system bothers you is subjective, but it's definitely a very big part of the game and he outlines why it bothered him perfectly well. I had pretty much the exact same reaction to it. Here, I'll fix it right now: stamina shouldn't be a constant resource to be managed, rather it should be something that is applied as a daily buff. So Shenhua can give Ryo a list of ingredients that he can go buy or find and if he brings them all back, she makes him a meal and then he gets full health/stamina and maybe even a buff the next day. If he doesn't, then his stamina is lowered a bit (and can be replenished by buying food), that way you have to make a conscious choice to end up with really low stamina. He could also have the option of skipping meals with Shenhua and buying a meal from a vendor/restaurant, similar to getting scolded by Ine San for arriving late. He doesn't start walking after 5 minutes of physical exertion, he doesn't constantly need to eat food, he won't suddenly arrive at a story fight sequence where he'll get killed because he has no stamina, and it encourages him to engage with Shenhua.

The system is a mess and there are plenty of ways it could be improved (to be honest, I struggle to see how it could be made any worse), but that’s not really what we’re talking about here. I think he really overstates the impact that having to eat has on the game, but we can agree to disagree on that because it is, imo, a poorly implemented system that offers little to the game in its current state.

Such as?

Having to talk to people to progress the game. Cutscenes that show Ryo removing or putting on his shoes. Poor localization. Flat voice acting. Paywalls. Poor controls. NPCs that have nothing to say. The vast majority of the things he complains about are all present in the first two games (especially the second, which many consider to be the better of the two).

It's not his job to offer suggestions (when he "fixes" the ending he says it's arrogant and he never does it), simply to outline his thoughts/feelings.

It might not be his job to offer suggestions on how to fix things, but when he makes vague criticisms about how the team should have learned from modern gaming, I think he should at the very least be able to explain what the team should have learned.

This seems to be one of the go to criticisms when it comes to Shenmue 3 and yet I’m still to see any of the scores of critics who have used it offer any real examples. This guy’s more than happy to write his own ending to the game and pay someone to crudely animate it; so it’s a little surprising that he’s unwilling to back up this criticism with anything of substance (assuming he is actually able to do so, that is).

Does he exaggerate? He's a YouTuber, of course he does. But it's all rooted in truth. His breakdown of the grinding for money mirrored my exact feeling while playing the game. S3 being as bad as it is hurts fans so much more than random people wanting to see a bad game get shat on. I could not believe what was happening when I was asked to grind out $5000. I was playing with a friend and at that moment I said that we were never gonna get S4 if this was the best we got for S3 while making this face:

It's honest because it's coming from an honest place. All the problems he has with the game are real problems with it that I have no doubt he felt genuinely. You can disagree with the degree to which those things bothered him, but I don't think you can accuse him of being dishonest to arrive at his point. He even echoes my exact thoughts when he says that every criticism he had of the game could have been forgiven if S3 stuck the landing in terms of story. That's a willingness to forgive that few offer a game they think is "terrible" and really only comes from a fan who's invested in the mysteries and characters.

When critiquing something, the whole idea is to avoid exaggeration and to remain impartial - and I think he failed on both counts. His criticisms may begin in a truthful place, but most of them end up landing quite far from the truth. Does that make him dishonest? Probably not; but it certainly doesn’t give an honest reflection of the game to people who have never played it.

 

[GhostTrick]

Absolutely NO
I can pass on extremely good games, since the market offers lots of great games, but more unique and refreshing...
In the open world genre?

Hundreds? I struggle to even find one (#1) OW game unique just as Shenmue.

The whole review bombing happened in the first place just because Shenmue is a unique game that do not conform to the modern standards, in a market that accept only the "more of the same".

What was unique in Shenmue III ? Definitely not the NPCs considering how dull they were. The map construction ? It's fairly closed early on and Bailu's design really felt artificial.
The schedule ? It doesn't really matter in the game because you cant miss an event either.

There's nothing unique in Shenmue III's open world. It's not fresh, it's not new either. Mind you, it's not what was asked to the game. But the narrative that Shenmue III is some refreshing game that was too unique hence why it got hate isn't going to work.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Not saying you're wrong, but arguments like "NPCs are dull", "there's nothing unique" aren't really arguments. Why are they dull and why is the open world not unique? What's dull to you might not be dull to others. I think there's been some interesting conversation about why these things are/aren't good, and it'd be nice to see some substance.

 

[iknifaugood]

The random camera jumps were another bizarre choice, imo, but they are an entirely separate issue and nowhere near as jarring as the random dips to black in that opening sequence. Had he said something along the lines of ‘one of the opening cutscene sequences had these really weird dips to black and some of the later cutscenes have random camera jumps.’, then fair enough - but that’s not what he says.

I played through the game twice before the first patch and honestly don’t recall any instances outside of that opening sequence, but by all means, if you can show me footage that demonstrates that they occur in all of the game’s conversations, I’ll happily concede the point.

I think that the broader point being made, that NPCs have varying visual quality and conversations are rough around the edges, and, more importantly, that the conversations are devoid of substance, is a fair one. Does he cherry pick the worst examples? Yes. But he also prefaces this by saying that talking to NPCs is the breadcrumb trail Ryo must follow to progress the story, so the issues here carry more weight because of how much you need to engage with this system.

We’re in complete agreement that localization and the direction of the English voice actors wasn’t up to scratch, but do you honestly think that the clips he chose to demonstrate this point are reflective of the games English dub as a whole? You just said that you think that most of it is serviceable, which is not the impression given to viewers in that video.

Sure it's serviceable and you can play the game and get the jist of the story just fine. But if you've played many open world games the dialogue and localization are definitely going to strike the average person as weird. I have no idea what the takeaway for someone who hasn't played Shenmue will be but, I mean, it's not like he's recommending the game, so he's not obligated to give people the impression that they should play it.

For starters, whether or not Shenhua wakes Ryo up depends on their relationship. The game begins with Ryo waking up alone to his alarm and later progresses to her poking her head around the door before actually entering the room to wake him. She says goodbye to him when he leaves the house, which narratively speaking makes a lot of sense. If anything, her saying absolutely nothing as Ryo left would be completely bizarre.

We’re talking about 30 seconds here of a 1 hour plus and if it is really that much of an annoyance, the cutscenes can be skipped (they might not have been skippable at launch, but that patch has been out for 6 months or so now). Him saying that they are unskippable is inaccurate at the very least and dishonest if he knew about it (which I’d be very surprised if he didn’t considering when this video was released).

Take for instance my example of the food system: in this scenario they will either have had a meal together or not, or a great meal that would give Ryo a buff. Now their interaction can be a sort of "ranking" of how you did during the previous day as well as Shenhua giving Ryo a task for the day. Shenhua can tell Ryo she's disappointed that he didn't join her for dinner, or thank him for getting all the ingredients and he can compliment her cooking and say he feels great etc. This gives the conversation purpose, rather than just existing for their own sake. In S1, Ryo is scolded by Ine San if he stays up too late and gets an allowance every day, they do not exchange pleasantries every day like some Japanese version of the Room.

(EDIT) On the subject of ignoring patches, there are several publications that don't update their review scores to reflect patch updates. I think it's certainly worth mentioning if it's something that greatly affects one's outlook on the game (I doubt the ability to skip dialogue would suddenly make him not think the game is terrible) but I understand that if the review is one's experience of the game, patches shouldn't change that.

That is exactly his point. He says as much and then makes a point of showing the cutscene repeatedly whilst making sure to tell the viewer that they are different recordings.

His point isn't that they're the same cutscene, he even says "it may sound like I'm being pedantic" because he's using all the gameplay interruptions that occur from simply waking up in the morning to leaving your house as an indicator of how everything in S3 is, as he puts it, "a struggle". He's looking at it from the point of view that he has an objective and in the process of trying to complete that objective there are a bunch of little annoyances nagging at him that pile up (and is his segue into talking about the stamina).

Has he played a Shenmue game before?

Yes, 20 years ago. Game animation has come a long way, there's no need for everything to be done in a cutscene anymore.

Having to talk to people to progress the game. Cutscenes that show Ryo removing or putting on his shoes. Poor localization. Flat voice acting. Paywalls. Poor controls. NPCs that have nothing to say. The vast majority of the things he complains about are all present in the first two games (especially the second, which many consider to be the better of the two).

He talks about how many of these things were forgivable or even revolutionary 20 years ago but not so today. The year Shenmue came out, Mega Man Legends 2 still had the shoulder buttons rotate the camera, would you consider it appropriate if MML3 decided to keep that in 2020? There is also the matter of degrees. Shenmue 2 has a lot of annoyances about it but it also hits incredible highs. I highly doubt that if S3 had scenarios as great as the Yellowhead building or introduced characters as memorable as Ren, Wong, Joy, Xiuying, and Shenhua that wouldn't have factored into his opinion of the game. Their absence exacerbates the flaws.

It might not be his job to offer how to fix things, but when he makes vague criticisms about how the team should have learned from modern gaming, I think he should at the very least be able to explain what the team should have learned. This seems to be one of the go to criticisms when it comes to Shenmue 3 and yet I’m still to see any of the scores of critics who have used it offer any real examples. This guy’s more than happy to write his own ending to the game and pay someone to crudely animate it; so it’s a little surprising that he’s unwilling to back up this criticism with anything of substance.

That's fair, I'd also be interested to know. I think his goal with the ending was simply that he wanted the game to make him feel something, where he felt nothing, rather than an actual way to "fix" the game.

When critiquing something, the whole idea is to avoid exaggeration and to remain impartial - and I think he failed on both counts.

Why is that the idea? I don't think the Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars Prequels are any less valid because they don't talk about the positive aspects. Let's not forget, these are videos that have to be entertaining first and foremost.

it certainly doesn’t give an honest impression of the game to people who have never played it.

I agree with this, you definitely won't come away from this video with an impartial impression but he never claims to offer that. That being said, neither would you if you watch the Plinkett reviews or most other critiques on YT.

 

[Suzaku]

What was unique in Shenmue III ? Definitely not the NPCs considering how dull they were. The map construction ? It's fairly closed early on and Bailu's design really felt artificial.
The schedule ? It doesn't really matter in the game because you cant miss an event either.

There's nothing unique in Shenmue III's open world. It's not fresh, it's not new either. Mind you, it's not what was asked to the game. But the narrative that Shenmue III is some refreshing game that was too unique hence why it got hate isn't going to work.

how many games let you live in the shoes of the protagonist by simulating his daily life?
how many games give sense to the day/night cycle, where the passage of time is not just aestetics?
how many games has unique NPC with their own schedule?
how many games let you talk with all npc (at least in Bailu) with fully voiced dialogues?
how many games (that aren't text only pc rpg) has this kind of dynamic dialogue system?
how many games has this kind of seamsless experience, where everything exists physically in the same virtual world?
etc.
how many games do all these things and more at the same time?

 

[Creward]

how many games let you live in the shoes of the protagonist by simulating his daily life?

A few of them Sims, Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing for example.

how many games give sense to the day/night cycle, where the passage of time is not just aestetics?

A few of them, again Sims, Stardew Valley on the sim side. Persona saga not in real time cycle though but your question did not specify that. If you include old games Ocarina of time and majora too.

how many games has unique NPC with their own schedule

Stardew valley and sim like games ehich the focus is to micmic real life settings it is a niche market but exists otherwise it is a "waste" of dev time for normal games.

how many games (that aren't text only pc rpg) has this kind of dynamic dialogue system?

Dynamic? I can not really answer this one as I can not really answer but Shenmue conversation system dies not even have dialog trees for the most part and is locked to the current gamestate and excluding a genre that is mostly dialog driven is unfair.

how many games let you talk with all npc (at least in Bailu) with fully voiced dialogues?

Yup most games do not expend that much effort on what they do not consider core part and spoken lines are heavy.

how many games has this kind of seamsless experience, where everything exists physically in the same virtual world?

I can not answer as I would require clarification of what seamless experience in same virtual world is.

how many games do all these things and more at the same time?

A few since town sim/city life sim is niche genre but somewhat exists in indie games so Stardew Valley covers some but not others as it did not have others like spoken dialog and things that require more budget scope. And bethesda style of RPG might also enter in this

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Some of the Shenmue features that wowed the world 20 years ago just aren't that impressive anymore or were removed from games because they aren't conducive to a good gaming experience. There are crucial elements in Shenmue 3 that keep the game Shenmue at its core, sure, but what good is the day/night cycle when the game forces you to go to bed 2 hours after it gets dark? Does anything interesting even happen when it gets dark? I can't remember any day/night-specific events, but that might be my memory failing me.I find it hard to believe anyone would turn to Shenmue 3 to simulate going to bed at 9PM, like they did in middle school.

I love talking to NPCs, but do I love it so much that I'd allocate 25% of a limited budget to writing and acting out nearly disposable dialogue, at the expense of telling a story? I'm not so sure I would.

In my mind, they shouldn't have treated Shenmue 3 like a fully-featured game with a bottomless budget like they did the first two games. What is important and what isn't? Is it cramming in features like fully voiced NPCs and day/night cycles, or is it expanding the Shenmue story and bringing the series to a conclusion after 15+ years of inactivity?

 

[Thomasina]

In my mind, they shouldn't have treated Shenmue 3 like a fully-featured game with a bottomless budget like they did the first two games. What is important and what isn't? Is it cramming in features like fully voiced NPCs and day/night cycles, or is it expanding the Shenmue story and bringing the series to a conclusion after 15+ years of inactivity?

That's what amplifies many of the issues in the game for me. Does a food system need to be present if it can't be fully fleshed out, and does it take precedent over other important elements? The food system is a throwaway and with a budget in mind it should have been scrapped.

With Suzuki's extensive experience, S3 should not have so many half-baked ideas and distractions. It needed to be highly focused on what's important. That is the biggest flaw of the game.

 

[Vasid]

A few of them Sims, Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing for example.


A few of them, again Sims, Stardew Valley on the sim side. Persona saga not in real time cycle though but your question did not specify that. If you include old games Ocarina of time and majora too.


Stardew valley and sim like games ehich the focus is to micmic real life settings it is a niche market but exists otherwise it is a "waste" of dev time for normal games.


Dynamic? I can not really answer this one as I can not really answer but Shenmue conversation system dies not even have dialog trees for the most part and is locked to the current gamestate and excluding a genre that is mostly dialog driven is unfair.



Yup most games do not expend that much effort on what they do not consider core part and spoken lines are heavy.



I can not answer as I would require clarification of what seamless experience in same virtual world is.



A few since town sim/city life sim is niche genre but somewhat exists in indie games so Stardew Valley covers some but not others as it did not have others like spoken dialog and things that require more budget scope. And bethesda style of RPG might also enter in this

Honestly if I were replying to this I'd just put "LOL FALLOUT AND SKYRIM" under every response. Though to give credit where credit is due Shenmue I's NPC schedules are still pretty advanced since they include holidays and various routines, if I remember right though Shenmue III's NPC schedules aren't as complicated.

Not sure why Shenmue can't be compared to RPGs by the way, I mean it is one. Trust me, I have the Dreamcast magazines calling it an RPG before release as well as in the launch review. It's an action RPG with a lot of streamlining but that is what the studio was going for then and now.

 

[Down by Law]

There's nothing unique in Shenmue III's open world. It's not fresh, it's not new either. Mind you, it's not what was asked to the game. But the narrative that Shenmue III is some refreshing game that was too unique hence why it got hate isn't going to work.

Show me another game where I can spar with some old dude literally all afternoon to improve my martial arts and counter timing.

Some of the criticism in here now is getting silly, comparing Animal Crossing and the Sims to Shenmue because they have a clock? are you kidding me? Those barely 3D games with tiny little worlds and little text boxes and zero action or adventure? Get real ! Skyrim and Fallout? Where you can choose to stay awake for a week if you feel like it ? Where the protagonist is a mute cipher with zero character development? Which was streamlined further in Fallout 4 and everyone took the piss out of it?

These games are nothing like Shenmue and if you thought they were then you dun fucked up

 

[Thomasina]

Show me another game where I can spar with some old dude literally all afternoon to improve my martial arts and counter timing.

Some of the criticism in here now is getting silly, comparing Animal Crossing and the Sims to Shenmue because they have a clock? are you kidding me? Those barely 3D games with tiny little worlds and little text boxes and zero action or adventure? Get real ! Skyrim and Fallout? Where you can choose to stay awake for a week if you feel like it ? Where the protagonist is a mute cipher with zero character development? Which was streamlined further in Fallout 4 and everyone took the piss out of it?

These games are nothing like Shenmue and if you thought they were then you dun fucked up

There's so many games available now that games aren't really restricted to doing one thing or being defined by one genre.

People have different experiences and different interpretations of their experiences. I can find things in other games that are similar to things in Shenmue that you might not even give the time of day.

I would agree that S3 is similar in ways to Animal Crossing. It's not some unbelievable comparison. A lot has happened in the past 20 years in gaming.

 

[bcdcdude]

Admist all the negativity recently, I went back to Metacritic last night and read the quotes for all of the reviews and lo and behold, they weren't all as bad as people make them out to be. Even most of the "60's" seemed quite positive. It's amusing how with a few months away, a lot of people treat the game like the plague. I've picked a few that I found quite charming.













I refer back to my earlier post and I do think we are in danger of being suffocated within our little bubble. I find it interesting that something like Megadimension Neptunia has a 7th game on the Switch...I've never even heard of it, let alone find out there are 7 of them. My point being that if a (potentially?) even more niche game can get 7 games, why can't Shenmue get a 4th?

It's an open ended question as i'm sure budget etc etc plays a part, but my point is that gaming is so *big* now that many games can cater to many people. 20 years ago, gaming was big, but not to the extent that it is today. I think Shenmue could easily be a small fish in a big pond and exist nicely with all the other games.

I have to laugh because my thoughts came in the same way that I train myself with my anxiety; work out what is a hypothetical worry - in this case - Will Shenmue IV exist? Then break that worry down into smaller chunks. I use the examples I gave earlier - UE4 experience, assets that already exist, a dedicated fanbase. Then I think "Well if I can put logic to most of these, then why should I worry?" Of course, as with mental health as a whole, it's easier said than done. Sometimes you worry and you panic and you don't realise you're doing it until after the fact.

I think we're kinda in that position now, because we're worried. I want so badly for Shenmue IV (and V) to exist, but I also realise that III let me down in some respects. But again - I went back to the Metacritic briefs - and reading some of the positive things that people had to say gives me a little faith that perhaps things will be OK.

I realise that sometimes I go on a stream of conciousness and what I say might be rambling, so apologies in advance.

 

[GhostTrick]

how many games let you live in the shoes of the protagonist by simulating his daily life?
how many games give sense to the day/night cycle, where the passage of time is not just aestetics?
how many games has unique NPC with their own schedule?
how many games let you talk with all npc (at least in Bailu) with fully voiced dialogues?
how many games (that aren't text only pc rpg) has this kind of dynamic dialogue system?
how many games has this kind of seamsless experience, where everything exists physically in the same virtual world?
etc.
how many games do all these things and more at the same time?

Most 3D RPGs from Bethesda for exemple ?
The only thing that Shenmue has for it in III is the fact that yeah, Ryo has his own schedule... to wake up and sleep.
Also, seamless experience ? in what way ? The game is fairly closed between its areas and the early game has artificial walls.

 

[GhostTrick]

Show me another game where I can spar with some old dude literally all afternoon to improve my martial arts and counter timing.

Some of the criticism in here now is getting silly, comparing Animal Crossing and the Sims to Shenmue because they have a clock? are you kidding me? Those barely 3D games with tiny little worlds and little text boxes and zero action or adventure? Get real ! Skyrim and Fallout? Where you can choose to stay awake for a week if you feel like it ? Where the protagonist is a mute cipher with zero character development? Which was streamlined further in Fallout 4 and everyone took the piss out of it?

These games are nothing like Shenmue and if you thought they were then you dun fucked up

Your first exemple isn't a mechanic, it's just too specific to make a point. It'd be like saying "Hey, FIFA is sooo unique ! Show me another game where I can play Ronaldo and where there's a club pro !" or like saying "Hey, show me another game where the protagonist wear a green hat and has a fairy like Ocarina of Time !". (Also you can spar with an old dude all the afternoon in Wind Waker).

 

[Down by Law]

You said: There's nothing unique about Shenmue's open world

I said : How about this

You said : That doesn't count

 

[spud1897]

Admist all the negativity recently, I went back to Metacritic last night and read the quotes for all of the reviews and lo and behold, they weren't all as bad as people make them out to be. Even most of the "60's" seemed quite positive. It's amusing how with a few months away, a lot of people treat the game like the plague. I've picked a few that I found quite charming.

View attachment 8498

View attachment 8499

View attachment 8500

View attachment 8501

View attachment 8502

View attachment 8503

I refer back to my earlier post and I do think we are in danger of being suffocated within our little bubble. I find it interesting that something like Megadimension Neptunia has a 7th game on the Switch...I've never even heard of it, let alone find out there are 7 of them. My point being that if a (potentially?) even more niche game can get 7 games, why can't Shenmue get a 4th?

It's an open ended question as i'm sure budget etc etc plays a part, but my point is that gaming is so *big* now that many games can cater to many people. 20 years ago, gaming was big, but not to the extent that it is today. I think Shenmue could easily be a small fish in a big pond and exist nicely with all the other games.

I have to laugh because my thoughts came in the same way that I train myself with my anxiety; work out what is a hypothetical worry - in this case - Will Shenmue IV exist? Then break that worry down into smaller chunks. I use the examples I gave earlier - UE4 experience, assets that already exist, a dedicated fanbase. Then I think "Well if I can put logic to most of these, then why should I worry?" Of course, as with mental health as a whole, it's easier said than done. Sometimes you worry and you panic and you don't realise you're doing it until after the fact.

I think we're kinda in that position now, because we're worried. I want so badly for Shenmue IV (and V) to exist, but I also realise that III let me down in some respects. But again - I went back to the Metacritic briefs - and reading some of the positive things that people had to say gives me a little faith that perhaps things will be OK.

I realise that sometimes I go on a stream of conciousness and what I say might be rambling, so apologies in advance.

Cracking post. I think it is forgotten that in some circles Shenmue III was indeed well loved. And I also agree it can exist within a massive gaming industry that we have today, which is why we need to keep the message out there that we want the series to continue.

 

[Down by Law]

(Also you can spar with an old dude all the afternoon in Wind Waker).

Ah yes, Link, the legendary martial artist.

Most 3D RPGs from Bethesda for exemple ?

I'll never forget stepping into the shoes of 18 year old 'MoonMan'

 

[GhostTrick]

You said: There's nothing unique about Shenmue's open world

I said : How about this

You said : That doesn't count

No, you told me "hey, tell me where I can spar with an old man to improve my skills" as if it made any sense to begin with. It's not a feature nor something that makes a game unique. It'd be like saying "hey tell me of another game where the hero's father has been killed because of a mirror !". Following that logic, everything is unique, since you can apply any conditions that are so specific that they apply to one single game.

Now I ask you: In term of its design or construction, what makes Shenmue 3's open world unique ? NPCs with schedule ? There are games doing that. The quest design ? It's fairly simple and seen in a lot of places. The world construction ? The map is fairly simple and artificial at times.

Ah yes, Link, the legendary martial artist.


I'll never forget stepping into the shoes of 18 year old 'MoonMan'

You're proving my point with the "too specific" thing. In that case, everything is unique. "Show me another game with Eden Hazard in the title screen ! FIFA is sooo unique !"