SuperEyePatchWolf: "Shenmue III is a terrible game and I've wasted my life"

No, you told me "hey, tell me where I can spar with an old man to improve my skills" as if it made any sense to begin with. It's not a feature nor something that makes a game unique. It'd be like saying "hey tell me of another game where the hero's father has been killed because of a mirror !". Following that logic, everything is unique, since you can apply any conditions that are so specific that they apply to one single game.

Seeing as visiting the dojo, sparring with the guy all day long (if i choose) is 100% pure gameplay, then how does your 'story outline' comparison make sense in any way?

Now if you said 'In Yakuza, You can visit a martial arts club and practise till your hearts content' That's a fair cop.

But you can't do that in Yakuza, and you can't do that in any other game I can think of that isn't Shenmue 3. I'm still waiting for your answer, or you just gonna do your usual handwavering routine?
 
Seeing as visiting the dojo, sparring with the guy all day long (if i choose) is 100% pure gameplay, then how does your 'story outline' comparison make sense in any way?


Right, so now that it's less specific, basically it all comes down to "tell me of a game where I can train to improve my skills". Well guess what, you could do that in GTA San Andreas. There was a gym to improve your stats and there was a sparring ring too.
 
Right, so now that it's less specific, basically it all comes down to "tell me of a game where I can train to improve my skills". Well guess what, you could do that in GTA San Andreas. There was a gym to improve your stats and there was a sparring ring too.

Oh brilliant now we're getting somewhere ! So ok, one game from 2004 does it. Any more examples? Earlier you said these kind of things are common as muck.
 
Now I ask you: In term of its design or construction, what makes Shenmue 3's open world unique ? NPCs with schedule ? There are games doing that. The quest design ? It's fairly simple and seen in a lot of places. The world construction ? The map is fairly simple and artificial at times.
Does it need to have a unique open world? Couldn't Shenmue IV focus inwards and develop itself that way and give that more rounded, detailed experience in a smaller setting. In some respects many open world games go for size of world, why not have a smaller world, fill it with story and other bits and pieces and you'd be onto a winner.

It doesn't need to follow the modern, massive world, formula.
 
That's what amplifies many of the issues in the game for me. Does a food system need to be present if it can't be fully fleshed out, and does it take precedent over other important elements? The food system is a throwaway and with a budget in mind it should have been scrapped.

With Suzuki's extensive experience, S3 should not have so many half-baked ideas and distractions. It needed to be highly focused on what's important. That is the biggest flaw of the game.
Well the food system as it is it did not take much time as its a number that gets decreased by a math formula in each game tick and then items in the inventory that adds a value into it. It can be probably in a week by any decent dev so budget wise it should not be that expensive.
Show me another game where I can spar with some old dude literally all afternoon to improve my martial arts and counter timing.

Some of the criticism in here now is getting silly, comparing Animal Crossing and the Sims to Shenmue because they have a clock? are you kidding me? Those barely 3D games with tiny little worlds and little text boxes and zero action or adventure? Get real ! Skyrim and Fallout? Where you can choose to stay awake for a week if you feel like it ? Where the protagonist is a mute cipher with zero character development? Which was streamlined further in Fallout 4 and everyone took the piss out of it?

These games are nothing like Shenmue and if you thought they were then you dun fucked up
The share some mechanics so they can be compared on those to see what to improve and what it does better. Yes, the core experience is not the same and what is trying to achieve is diferent than those but we can look at the similar parts and discuss those.

And yes "realistic" martial art RPG based on modern settings with some town simulation aspect is not commonand Shenmue might be the only one I can thing that fits that description but subpaets of it are in other games.
 
Does it need to have a unique open world? Couldn't Shenmue IV focus inwards and develop itself that way and give that more rounded, detailed experience in a smaller setting. In some respects many open world games go for size of world, why not have a smaller world, fill it with story and other bits and pieces and you'd be onto a winner.

It doesn't need to follow the modern, massive world, formula.

Infact didn't Yu himself say that there's lots of open world games these days and that he'd like to take Shenmue back to being in a more refined world where it's harder to fit through crowds etc?
I must confess I preferred the smaller areas in the Shenmue games. The details were far more intricate.
 
Does it need to have a unique open world? Couldn't Shenmue IV focus inwards and develop itself that way and give that more rounded, detailed experience in a smaller setting. In some respects many open world games go for size of world, why not have a smaller world, fill it with story and other bits and pieces and you'd be onto a winner.

It doesn't need to follow the modern, massive world, formula.


No it doesn't. As I said, It doesn't need to have a unique open world. I'm not even blaming the game for that. But the discussion started when a user said that "Shenmue III was review bombed because of its unique fresh take on the open world formula". Which is where I disagree. People didn't bash Shenmue III because it was unique.
 
Oh brilliant now we're getting somewhere ! So ok, one game from 2004 does it. Any more examples? Earlier you said these kind of things are common as muck.
Depends what you mean; progression systems and skill trees are a dime a dozen nowadays, I can't really think of an open world game that gives the player a full moveset from the start except maybe BotW if you count post-Great Plateau. Plenty of games also force the player to engage with their combat systems (you won't make it very far in Sekiro if you don't master parrying or learn the enemy attacks) so how is that meaningfully different from just sparring in a dojo? I guess the question is less "how is Shenmue specifically structured?" and more "how do other games achieve the same thing?"

Also Sleeping Dogs lets you train at a dojo, just sayin'. Also the Definitive Edition is $3 today on Steam.
 
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I never came back to post my thoughts on shenmue 3 cause I was honestly in the same boat as this review. In going to be honest, I found my opinion of the series dropping the more I tried to engage with the 3rd game. So many design decisions and mechanics that just didn't blend into a fun game experience. The kung fu, training, gambling, and life sim experiences worked very well in game 1 and 2. The way they implemented into the 3rd game was just not what I was looking for.

I don't have any resentment about the game, I just accepted the fact that the game didn't deliver in the ways I was hoping. I hope that many fans got what they were looking for. I'd probably still look at a 4th game but would be much more hesitant to back the title to the same degree on crowdfunding.
 
Isn't that called a mechanic? I'm confused how you can be so sure it's a hindrance, just by its design. You eat, you move. That's it. At no point does the game say 'you haven't eaten X bulbs of garlic, therefore you may not progress', which would actually be a hinderance.

A mechanic can be a hinderance.

connecting the players stamina and health makes you progressively lose health throughout the day even if you aren’t taking any damage at all.
 
A few of them Sims, Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing for example.

I'll try not to laught for the comparison...
but yeah you have to go to life/farm sims games to find few of the features that shenmue has.
Isn't it unique for an rpg open world game?


Most 3D RPGs from Bethesda for exemple ?
The only thing that Shenmue has for it in III is the fact that yeah, Ryo has his own schedule... to wake up and sleep.
Also, seamless experience ? in what way ? The game is fairly closed between its areas and the early game has artificial walls.

most...bethesda makes only fallout and elder scrolls, and even those still lacks many of the features that Shenmue has.

I don't know why you insist on this fallacious narrative that shenmue has nothing unique.
If shenmue is just your average game, then why waiting 20 years for a third episode? Wasn't more simple to just play TES, AC or Yakuza?
 
A mechanic can be a hinderance.

connecting the players stamina and health makes you progressively lose health throughout the day even if you aren’t taking any damage at all.

I mean if you want to look at it that way, sure. But I think you're being overly dramatic for sure here. How many times did you honestly feel like the health system did you wrong? Admittedly I've played the game twice, so that may not be as many as you or other people, but I'll repeat my last few comments:

Nobody, nor me, that I know of, found the health system as much of a hinderance as you're saying.

Isn't what you're saying sorta similar to how Ryo needs to know a certain move before the story progresses? Couldn't that be seen as a hinderance, given your example? If so, I'm pretty confused all around.
 
This is a terrible review made only to get more views through clickbait.

It serves only as fuel for Shenmue haters, which we really don't need right now.

It really pissed me off. Game was flawed for sure, but it's definitely not terrible.
SuperEyepatchWolf gets 1m+ views on some of his videos. His last Shenmue video was one of the lowest viewed on his channel, doubt he's making Shenmue videos for clickbait. It's not like there's a large audience that wants to hate Shenmue outside of a vocal minority and the EGS haters (see also: Steam fanboys). Most people barley know what Shenmue is let alone want to hate it. "Fuel for Shenmue haters" is an interesting turn of phrase, I mean what, is it going to make them buy less games than the none they were going to buy? Or are there now "SHENMUE SUCKS" protests going on that I'm not aware of? Haters of the series are going to hate it the same amount regardless of one youtube video.

Some of you are taking this way too seriously and need to calm down. Being mad at the internet doesn't help anything and it's not very Kung Fu. Focusing on the things that make you mad isn't what Ryo's dad would want, just saying.

Edit: and I'm not saying you can't disagree with the video, just do it in a constructive way. Yelling "CLICKBAIT" doesn't get much done. I really respect the people in this thread who are actually debating systems and mechanics they like. That fosters discussion and growth and may even lead to people seeing Shenmue III in a new light. Getting mad and throwing out insults at the creator just because he's not on this platform only fosters people looking at our community like a bunch of angry people who hate everyone who doesn't love Shenmue unconditionally.
 
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I mean if you want to look at it that way, sure. But I think you're being overly dramatic for sure here. How many times did you honestly feel like the health system did you wrong? Admittedly I've played the game twice, so that may not be as many as you or other people, but I'll repeat my last few comments:

Nobody, nor me, that I know of, found the health system as much of a hinderance as you're saying.

Isn't what you're saying sorta similar to how Ryo needs to know a certain move before the story progresses? Couldn't that be seen as a hinderance, given your example? If so, I'm pretty confused all around.

Ive beaten Shenmue III 3 times and found it to be a hinderance on every playthrough. On the other hand, needing to learn a move to progress in the story doesn’t have to be a hinderance but it becomes one in Shenmue III mainly because you do tasks completely unrelated to the technique at hand in order to eventually learn it (like chicken catching and buying $2000 wine)
 
Does anything interesting even happen when it gets dark? I can't remember any day/night-specific events, but that might be my memory failing me.I find it hard to believe anyone would turn to Shenmue 3 to simulate going to bed at 9PM, like they did in middle school.

Talking to Shenhua? That’s about it really. I mean, I do believe that’s why they made the curfew 9pm. Because they really were urging you to go back home and talk to Shenhua every night.

Granted that doesn’t really work for Chobu considering the conversations kind of end once you leave Bailu but I do believe that was the point of the 9pm curfew. They really were urging you to spend that time to get to know Shenhua in your nightly conversations with her.
 
After venturing outside the dojo, I just wanted to bring some context into this discussion.


I am posting this video for two reasons.

I). For those of you who refuse Wolf's video due to clickbait, Would you do the same for this video despite it being on the more positive side?

II). It's to show that the reception to Shenmue III is just as positive with large YouTubers as it is negative.

Outside of the dojo, fans are simply divided over Shenmue III. Some fans adore the game, others absolutely loathe it, and others are ambivalent. It's not really unusual to hear from fans "I really enjoyed Shenmue III despite its flaws."

Critics should understand that fans who loved Shenmue III are not blind zealots, but simply don't see the same shortcomings that you do or disagree that they are flaws. Just like enthusiasts of Shenmue III need to understand that not every critic is being malicious. They're either expressing their disappointment and/or really love this franchise and want it to improve.

Personally, I did not enjoy Shenmue III but I respect the fans who did. At the end of the day, Super Eye Patch Wolf is just someone with an opinion. I don't agree with it and think he's over exaggerating, but it's just his opinion nonetheless. For now, I think it's more productive to ensure we get a Shenmue IV.
 
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I'll try not to laught for the comparison...
but yeah you have to go to life/farm sims games to find few of the features that shenmue has.
Isn't it unique for an rpg open world game?




most...bethesda makes only fallout and elder scrolls, and even those still lacks many of the features that Shenmue has.

I don't know why you insist on this fallacious narrative that shenmue has nothing unique.
If shenmue is just your average game, then why waiting 20 years for a third episode? Wasn't more simple to just play TES, AC or Yakuza?



Who said a game needs to be unique to be enjoyed ?
You see, that's the issue here, you seem to equate uniqueness with quality. That's not the case though. You have games relying on a well established formula being excellent and games being completly fresh but shit and boring.

Why did I wait 12 years for a 3rd episode ?
Pretty simple: Shenmue II was a complete masterpiece. Yes, the game at the time was unique, but that's not the reason why I loved this game.

The towns were well constructed and believeable, the characters were really appealing and had a lot of care put into them, the story was engaging, the cutscenes, even by today standards, are very well done.

The game feature many setpieces and gameplay ideas during the story to make a lot of various gameplay situations to keep the game engaging.

And the CD4 is a complete masterpiece (and for this one, I can say it's really unique).

The soundtrack is huge, varied and on point.

I was waiting for Shenmue III because Shenmue II was just excellent in what it was doing, not because it was unique.

And no, Shenmue III didnt get some bad reviews because it's a misunderstood unique game in a world of Call of Duty and FIFA.
 
I think that the broader point being made, that NPCs have varying visual quality and conversations are rough around the edges, and, more importantly, that the conversations are devoid of substance, is a fair one. Does he cherry pick the worst examples? Yes. But he also prefaces this by saying that talking to NPCs is the breadcrumb trail Ryo must follow to progress the story, so the issues here carry more weight because of how much you need to engage with this system.
As stated; I have no issue with his broader point and am in no way trying to argue that the game's localization or dialogue was good. Where I take issue is that it is presented here as being some nonsensical mess throughout the entire game, which isn't the case.
Sure it's serviceable and you can play the game and get the jist of the story just fine. But if you've played many open world games the dialogue and localization are definitely going to strike the average person as weird. I have no idea what the takeaway for someone who hasn't played Shenmue will be but, I mean, it's not like he's recommending the game, so he's not obligated to give people the impression that they should play it.
A good review shouldn't be about whether or not the reviewer 'recommends' the game or not implicitly, but providing the audience with the information to make the choice for themselves. In this instance, the title alone has given a pretty clear indication as to what the tone of the video is going to be, so the content should be about justifying that opinion. If he needs to cherry-pick examples to back up the criticisms that form this opinion, then I'd argue that the he knows that the criticisms themselves aren't strong enough.
Take for instance my example of the food system: in this scenario they will either have had a meal together or not, or a great meal that would give Ryo a buff. Now their interaction can be a sort of "ranking" of how you did during the previous day as well as Shenhua giving Ryo a task for the day. Shenhua can tell Ryo she's disappointed that he didn't join her for dinner, or thank him for getting all the ingredients and he can compliment her cooking and say he feels great etc. This gives the conversation purpose, rather than just existing for their own sake. In S1, Ryo is scolded by Ine San if he stays up too late and gets an allowance every day, they do not exchange pleasantries every day like some Japanese version of the Room.
I liked your idea as to how the food system might have been better and it would have had the added side-effect of providing a reason for Ryo to return home so early, but if I'm honest, I have little interest in discussing how the game might have been better as that ultimately serves no purpose. Discussion on how the system could be improved in future games could be productive, but this isn't really the place for that. Just as an aside though, he does sit down and eat with Shenhua after returning home on several occasions (well, they sit around a table with food on it).
(EDIT) On the subject of ignoring patches, there are several publications that don't update their review scores to reflect patch updates. I think it's certainly worth mentioning if it's something that greatly affects one's outlook on the game (I doubt the ability to skip dialogue would suddenly make him not think the game is terrible) but I understand that if the review is one's experience of the game, patches shouldn't change that.
The vast majority of reviews are written around the launch window before patches have been released meaning that including their content in the review requires the reviewer to actively go back and replay the game and then make changes to their review. Some do it - and I think a lot of it is down to a publisher requesting that they do so if the patch is likely to alter the score given to the game - but this is an entirely different situation.

Here the reviewer does not have to go back and replay the game, nor does he have to go back and make changes to his review. He just has to be honest about the game he played. Instead we see a conscious choice to ignore the patch because doing so allows him to more easily portray the game as some terrible waste of time.
His point isn't that they're the same cutscene, he even says "it may sound like I'm being pedantic" because he's using all the gameplay interruptions that occur from simply waking up in the morning to leaving your house as an indicator of how everything in S3 is, as he puts it, "a struggle". He's looking at it from the point of view that he has an objective and in the process of trying to complete that objective there are a bunch of little annoyances nagging at him that pile up (and is his segue into talking about the stamina).
That might be his broader point, but being forced to watch 'the same cut-scene' repeatedly is one of the criticisms used to support that argument. That he again chooses to mislead viewers here suggests that he knew that the point itself was flimsy.

On this note, I find it a little funny that he bemoans Yu's failure to learn from modern games, because a lot of modern games are known for doing this sort of thing all the time. Modern game designers seem to love throwing random events and side quests into the path of the player to distract them from the main story-line - and whilst this is something we do see in Shenmue - it's usually done in an incredibly non-intrusive way. Compared to something like RDR2, I'd say that the 30 seconds or so of Shenhua each morning (most of which is skipable) is nothing.
Yes, 20 years ago. Game animation has come a long way, there's no need for everything to be done in a cutscene anymore.
You're right. Not everything needs to be a cutscene, but I fail to see how something being presented with a cutscene makes it inherently bad.

Let's take the shoe removal cutscene as an example. The first time I saw it, it felt like a very obvious throwback to the Yokosuka section of the game and made me realize that this was the first time in months that Ryo had really been in a proper 'home' environment (I know technically he stayed with Xiuying for a few days, but I don't feel they came close to really capturing that 'home' feeling).

To me at least, them drawing attention to it through the use of a cutscene helped to evoke a reaction in me that likely would not have occurred had it played out through the game engine. It may be subjective, but I think doing so was worth it for the sake of a second or so of loading at the beginning of the cutscene.
Why is that the idea? I don't think the Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars Prequels are any less valid because they don't talk about the positive aspects. Let's not forget, these are videos that have to be entertaining first and foremost.
The issue is that the Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars prequels present the negative criticism in an honest way, whilst this review cherry-picks examples, exaggerates issues and, in some cases, straight up lies in an attempt to present the game as something that it is not. It is misleading by design.
I agree with this, you definitely won't come away from this video with an impartial impression but he never claims to offer that. That being said, neither would you if you watch the Plinkett reviews or most other critiques on YT.
It is presented as a review. In that sense I think that the reasonable expectation is that, at the very least, what he's saying is true. You could certainly make the argument that the majority of his criticism is grounded in truth (which I do believe that it is), but I think that the end result has strayed too far from that truth to still be considered 'honest'.
 
Who said a game needs to be unique to be enjoyed ?
You see, that's the issue here, you seem to equate uniqueness with quality. That's not the case though. You have games relying on a well established formula being excellent and games being completly fresh but shit and boring.

Why did I wait 12 years for a 3rd episode ?
Pretty simple: Shenmue II was a complete masterpiece. Yes, the game at the time was unique, but that's not the reason why I loved this game.

The towns were well constructed and believeable, the characters were really appealing and had a lot of care put into them, the story was engaging, the cutscenes, even by today standards, are very well done.

The game feature many setpieces and gameplay ideas during the story to make a lot of various gameplay situations to keep the game engaging.

And the CD4 is a complete masterpiece (and for this one, I can say it's really unique).

The soundtrack is huge, varied and on point.


I was waiting for Shenmue III because Shenmue II was just excellent in what it was doing, not because it was unique.

And no, Shenmue III didnt get some bad reviews because it's a misunderstood unique game in a world of Call of Duty and FIFA.

Without realizing, you just described some of the qualities that made shenmue a unique experience compared to other games.
Shenmue does all this things at the same time, with a very personal style and with an attention of detail incredible, no other game manage to do that.

It's not just a matter of quality, there are a lot of great games out there, and even some remained incomplete story-wise, still you don't see the same amount of dedication to example for Xenogears, why? Because it was just a great but standard rpg.

But Shenmue was and still is really unique, and even 20 years later, I never find a game experience at the same level.
That's why fans supported this series so strongly.
 
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