I brought this on myself, but I don't think you realize how taxing it is to go through this explosion of challenges you make to every minute detail, when half the time they don't particularly matter, or you're simply misinterpreting something.
What are you on about? You're the one borderline writing fanfic in your "interpretation" of the story. You need to stick to the text of the games.
You said "everyone" (in italics), but you rightly listed a handful because he's infamous in certain circles, as you acknowledge all of the CYM leaders likely are. I don't know what your argument really is anymore.
First of all, don't be pedantic; I obviously didn't mean that Sumiya-San knows who Lan Di is. My point is that the way that Shenmue establishes characters and reputations is very consistent across S1 and 2 and, judging S3 by those standards of storytelling, it does not establish the things that you claim it does.
I believe, based on some of your other comments, that you're hung up on this idea that she has to have a name that is called out by the end of the game in some way, or else she's poorly written, which is frankly silly. Nowhere is this a requirement. It is not a new thing to introduce characters without immediately giving their names. It simply wasn't an important detail, at the end of the game, for Ryo to know. Her name is in promotional materials up past release. If someone was inclined to know her name now, that information is available. It really has no bearing on how her character is portrayed in the game.
Not having a name doesn't necessarily indicate poor storytelling, but little things like not establishing what her reputation is, how she came to know about the Phoenix Mirror, what she plans on doing about the Dragon Mirror, what her motivations are, and the difference between her two personas
are indicators (not that we need to know everything). Varys from A Song of Ice and Fire is a perfect example of how to do this kind of character right, but bear in mind he's also not the
secondary antagonist.
Also, you put "master manipulator" in quotes, and I'm fairly certain no one said that (or even particularly implied it). I personally said we can see that she enjoys manipulation, deceit, and setting people up in her games.
Again, don't be pedantic. You said "she derives a great deal of pleasure from manipulating and deceiving people." and "We can get a sense that she enjoys making people dance in her web of deceit. She's able to manipulate and deceive even Shenhua.", which I shortened to "master manipulator". If you think that's an unfair characterization of your description, then you're free to rephrase it without describing how she's so good at manipulating people.
I don't think there's much to suggest that Lan Di considers the mirror a possession of his father's. There's a lot more to suggest that he sees what the mirrors unlock as his pearl of wisdom, chases after it like the dragon he is, and getting revenge was a nice bonus while he was on his real mission.
Is there a lot to consider the fact that he would not have it on his person at all times? Also, we know that the CYM are headed to the Cliff Temple, do you think Lan Di stored the Dragon Mirror there?
You're saying Chai doesn't have his room set up in Niao Sun's headquarters, then?
I'm saying that an easter egg that could be easily missed by the player and could have been put there as a joke by an artist or level designer is not and should not be considered canon. Especially not if you're trying to tell me that Chai was responsible for something as important as telling Niao Sun the location of the Phoenix Mirror.
Yeah, I mean, I guess-- aside from the narrative purpose you just mentioned, that we can interpret for ourselves without having it spelled out for us.
You yourself forgot that Chai even knew that Ryo had the mirror! (Which I don't blame you, nor anyone in the intervening 20 years for doing). Clearly, if Chai was meant to be the one who told Niao Sun about the mirror, S3 failed to convey that.
It's clearly not how Shenmue does things, though.
OK, I won't believe my lying eyes. We're expected to fill in massive gaps in the story in the same game where Ryo needs to recognize the pattern on the mirrors like
this (1:00:10):
Anyway, since Ryo isn't going to witness Chai telling one of the CYM about the phoenix mirror, and there's really no reason for any of the CYM to bring it up in conversation with him, I don't really see your point.
Because
that's not the only way to do it! When Ryo and Shenhua question Yanglang, he mentions that Chai is just a watchdog, meant to keep eyes on them. So Chai is working with the CYM, meaning he could have told them about the Phoenix Mirror at any time, which makes no sense because instead of going to Bailu Village to get it, they just...don't. As I said, the story only makes sense if Niao Sun finds out about it in Niaowu, which is a scene that's missing. That's my point: S3 is missing a scene where we find out how Niao Sun learns that Ryo has the mirror.
It's a translation error, then. Chen says that Lan Di is part of the group of officers in the CYM.
So Niao Sun
doesn't say " "Lan Di... that fool. The Chi You Men belong to me now! Hahahaha!"? Pretty weird thing to say if there are 2 other leaders
and a big boss.
Zhu and Chen being people who have to be well informed, and as such, attempt to keep tabs on an official in a notorious organization, or Yuan potentially overhearing information while being detained by that organization, are nowhere near as bad as a monologue. It's not even remotely poorly done, the way most extended monologues in more modern entertainment are.
Does Lan Di strike you as the type of person who blathers on about his next moves? It's fine in S1, because obviously Ryo has to go to HK and it's established that Lan Di used a middle man for transport, but it's fucking ridiculous that 3 games in a row end like that. It's also emblematic of another problem with Shenmue's storytelling; the fact that Ryo's quest for revenge has to also line up with the broader story of the mirrors so he constantly needs dual reasons to go to the places he goes to (because for some reason he
still no longer values the bigger picture over petty vengeance) in increasingly convoluted ways.
I cannot continue to waste my time like this.
You should absolutely stop wasting your time writing fan fiction to fill in the gaps of the story and
stick to the text. I don't really like MGSV but this video does wonders outlining the merits of that game without resorting to baseless theorizing and pulling from stuff the devs wanted to put in the game but didn't.
You can't answer these questions by sticking to the text because those answers simply aren't there:
- Niaowu being Niao Sun's base of operations? Where is this established or even implied? We learn that Lan Di is traveling to Guilin in S2 and we find him chilling in Niaowu in a castle; why isn't it
his base of operations? Or the CYM's more broadly?
- Niao Sun deriving pleasure from manipulating others by making them dance in her web of deceit: where/how is this shown?
- Chai working for/reporting to Niao Sun and not Lan Di; when/why did he start doing this? If this is how she found out about the mirror then why didn't she take it from Ryo in Bailu Village?
- Why does Niao Sun betray Lan Di without taking the Dragon Mirror first?
- Why does Niao Sun declare the CYM "hers" if Lan Di isn't the boss? (especially if there are 2 other leaders and Tentei)