Can we have a serious conversation about the compelled inflation of this game?

[DynamiteCop!]

I'm seeing a lot of "let's rally and go vote for this" or "everybody go post a 10/10 review" and the like. What is that?

Does anyone else see a problem with this? If a game is actually in the position where you would do these actions naturally then why is it being compelled to such a degree? It's not just here, it's in discord servers, other forums where "Shenmue people" reside. I'm seeing a trend where we should in essence be dishonest and inflate this game to a level in which it has not actually attained.

I've not seen this take place to this level for any other game, why is it happening here? Do you think it's getting a bad wrap? Are you pandering for a sequel? Are you trying to manipulate mindshare so people think differently of it? What's the logic?

The way I see it is criticism is true love for something, the ability to come to terms with something not being great and criticize it in a constructive manner as to help guide the future on the back of fixing the problem rather than perpetuating it. Inflation is denial, it's counter-productive, it fuels an environment where the viewpoint is that everything is fine as is when it's truly not.

You shouldn't push something to the top that doesn't truly deserve a place there, it lessens true victory in that attainment, tries to take it from something else and sets the precedent that mediocrity is equal to greatness if we force it to be.

We (other people) shouldn't be engaging in this, it's a bad look, and it's dishonest.

 

[Budgiecat]

Where are you seeing this? I havent seen that here.
Most I've seen is:
"Striking while the iron is hot" | If we want Shenmue IV, we have to act now, not 4 years down the road" thread in Shenmue IV forum of this site where the TC stated:

How could you help?


- Buy multiple copies of Shenmue 3 every now and then, if you're financially able
- Buy the DLCs when they come out
- Keep the interest and campaigns going on social media, tag Deep Silver and Epic Games in your posts
- E-mail Yu Suzuki/YsNet to show your appreciation and keep their morale high

None of that says anything about inflating votes

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

I'm pretty sure its simply to create positive awareness so the game could sell so we could get Shenmue 4. They're just trying to rally. Now I'm personally a guy who will vote honestly but its not like the fans here are coercing or threatening others to vote.

And if you paid attention you've seen things like this before. Look no further than Yakuza which is finally seeing success in the West because fans hyped the hell out of the series right? By the time Yakuza 3, 4 or 5 came out, gaming media sites like IGN were proclaiming it repetitive and giving each new game meh reviews. But the western fanbase really rallied behind the series and finally its gotten some respect because a wee bit more mainstream gamers finally gave it a shot after all the years of fans talking it up. And now that more money has been pumped into the franchise it's actually gotten better and better along with shorter release schedules to the West. Yakuza 6 introduced a new engine (and IMO the best developed story) then Kiwami 2, and Judgement which expanded the franchise in a very positive manner, and Yakuza 7 may very well be the most risky and fresh installment yet. There's a series not resting on its laurels since its rise in popularity out here.

I'm with you if you're speaking against doxing reviewers giving this game low scores or some humanely problematic things being said on this board. However your concern here feels suspiciously inauthentic, or disingenuous rather, and almost like you're trying to ruffle feathers, I'm sorry to say.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I'm pretty sure its simply to create positive awareness so the game could sell so we could get Shenmue 4. They're just trying to rally. Now I'm personally a guy who will vote honestly but its not like the fans here are coercing or threatening others to vote.

And if you paid attention you've seen things like this before. Look no further than Yakuza which is finally seeing success because fans hyped the hell out of the series right? By the time Yakuza 3, 4 or 5 came out, gaming media sites like IGN were proclaiming it repetitive and giving each new game meh reviews. But the fanbase really rallied behind the series and finally its gotten some respect because a wee bit more mainstream gamers finally gave it a shot after all the years of fans talking it up. And now that more money has been pumped into the franchise it's actually gotten better and better. Yakuza 6 introduced a new engine (and IMO the best developed story) then Kiwami 2, and Judgement which expanded the franchise in a very positive manner, and Yakuza 7 may very well be the most risky and fresh installment yet. There's a series not resting on its laurels since its rise in popularity.

I'm with you if you're speaking against doxing reviewers giving this game low scores or some humanely problematic things being said on this board. However your concern here feels suspiciously inauthentic, or disingenuous rather, and almost like you're trying to ruffle feathers, I'm sorry to say.

It feels suspicious because there's a general sense around here that dissention is not welcome so people like me are questioned, and it's become quite synonymous with the Shenmue community in general. Frankly I've stayed away from it my entire time involved with this franchise which bear in mind is since before it even released.

This is the crap I am speaking about, I'm as much as a fan as anyone else but because I see some questionable things taking place suddenly I become scrutinized. A thread to go inflate the games user rating on Metacritic is stickied, admins are talking about writing emails to them to counteract people which are rating it poorly.

There's a Player's Choice vote for game of the month on PSN and a mod created it instructing people to vote for Shenmue III. There's people telling their friends to vote for it who haven't even played it. What did I do? I voted for Death Stranding as I found it to be a profoundly better game, and while there's only been one post in response to mine it was contentious as if I shouldn't be afforded a choice. The hell is that?

There's a very echo chamber kind of vibe around here, if anything it's pushing me further away and I have no doubt it's happening for others as well. There's an extent where rose tinted glasses become problematic and hostile and I'm noticing some telltale signs of non-objective behaviors.

The focus on manipulation, the focus on reviews and trying to argue with them, the focus on what other people think of the game is nauseating. Trying to convince the world this is a diamond in the rough when they're never going to see it that way. It bugs me as someone who had a large amount of respect for Yu Suzuki and the first two games that things have sunk this low.

You want people on your side and this is the kind of behavior exhibited? It's become a very party over country type of situation where the goal is to force this through by whatever means necessary even if the relevance and shot this franchise had is long gone.

I dunno man.. The Kool-Aid has gone a bit off in my opinion.

 

[hyo_razuki]

You're going a little bit over the top with this "dishonesty" thing. People want S4 and are trying to rally for Shenmue. That's all.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You're going a little bit over the top with this "dishonesty" thing. People want S4 and are trying to rally for Shenmue. That's all.

I get that, but at the same time let the chips fall where they may. We funded the game, that fake hype from announcement where it seemed like millions of people hyped the game led to nothing, sales aren't great, reviews are very middling...

I mean at a certain point you've got to just let things happen, trying to fight the tide is a bit much. That doesn't mean you shouldn't advocate for another game, but the whole "vote for this", "leave X review here", "this review is clearly wrong", "I'm going to email metacritic" thing is just a bad look.

 

[spud1897]

It feels suspicious because there's a general sense around here that dissention is not welcome so people like me are questioned, and it's become quite synonymous with the Shenmue community in general. Frankly I've stayed away from it my entire time involved with this franchise which bear in mind is since before it even released.

This is the crap I am speaking about, I'm as much as a fan as anyone else but because I see some questionable things taking place suddenly I become scrutinized. A thread to go inflate the games user rating on Metacritic is stickied, admins are talking about writing emails to them to counteract people which are rating it poorly.

There's a Player's Choice vote for game of the month on PSN and a mod created it instructing people to vote for Shenmue III. There's people telling their friends to vote for it who haven't even played it. What did I do? I voted for Death Stranding as I found it to be a profoundly better game, and while there's only been one post in response to mine it was contentious as if I shouldn't be afforded a choice. The hell is that?

There's a very echo chamber kind of vibe around here, if anything it's pushing me further away and I have no doubt it's happening for others as well. There's an extent where rose tinted glasses become problematic and hostile and I'm noticing some telltale signs of non-objective behaviors.

The focus on manipulation, the focus on reviews and trying to argue with them, the focus on what other people think of the game is nauseating. Trying to convince the world this is a diamond in the rough when they're never going to see it that way. It bugs me as someone who had a large amount of respect for Yu Suzuki and the first two games that things have sunk this low.

You want people on your side and this is the kind of behavior exhibited? It's become a very party over country type of situation where the goal is to force this through by whatever means necessary even if the relevance and shot this franchise had is long gone.

I dunno man.. The Kool-Aid has gone a bit off in my opinion.

You're free to vote how you want. But the answer is simple its because the majority want Shenmue 4. We didnt get Shenmue III, whether you like it the game or dislike it, by sitting on our asses. We went out there and did something about it. It's the same here.
I'm not sure what your agenda is but where in my post did say that people must vote??

No one user is forced to do anything, if someone takes part super all for it, if not then that's cool.

Nobody is getting banned, called out etc if they dont.

If we would have let the chips fall then Shenmue III would never of happened. Now if thats what you wanted then that's cool, but I can tell you now that it's clear that many people were desperate for it and want a Shenmue 4, even after the mixed response to Shenmue III.

Dont want to take part, not an issue, but dont try and drag down a community wide approach to getting the word out there because you dont agree with it.

 

[gladias9]

Shenmue 500k on Facebook has had a few posts like these

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You're free to vote how you want. But the answer is simple its because the majority want Shenmue 4. We didnt get Shenmue III, whether you like it the game or dislike it, by sitting on our asses. We went out there and did something about it. It's the same here.
I'm not sure what your agenda is but where in my post did say that people must vote??

No one user is forced to do anything, if someone takes part super all for it, if not then that's cool.

Nobody is getting banned, called out etc if they dont.

If we would have let the chips fall then Shenmue III would never of happened. Now if thats what you wanted then that's cool, but I can tell you now that it's clear that many people were desperate for it and want a Shenmue 4, even after the mixed response to Shenmue III.

Dont want to take part, not an issue, but dont try and drag down a community wide approach to getting the word out there because you dont agree with it.

Well we actually did get Shenmue 3 by sitting on our asses, we spent money and that was our involvement. The only reason it came about was the advent of Kickstarter, Yu even said it himself. Sure people talked about wanting another game or when they saw him in public they would ask but that's not some revelatory move, anyone does that if they come in contact with the creator of something left unfinished.

I get what you're trying to accomplish but there's a better way to go about it that doesn't come off the way it does. Framing is a big part of it, let me extrapolate with the example of your thread.

VOTE SHENMUE III FOR PS4 GAME OF THE MONTH FOR NOVEMBER 2019

You guys know what to do! #Shenmue #Shenmue3

Vote Shenmue III for PS4's best game November 2019! Click the link below!

That's a commanding title and followup, should it not say

"PS4 Players’ Choice: Vote Now for November’s Best New Game"

Shenmue III among several other games were put up to vote for the best new game of November.

If you enjoyed the game please show your support!

Here's a list of the titles which can be voted on.

*List*

Sure it's all optional, you're not literally commanding anything but the framing is terrible and presents it in a way as if you shouldn't question it, you should just vote for it.

It's little things like this that make all the difference and I'm noticing a lot of framing where this title is being treated as if it exists in a vacuum.

 

[Bule]

Well we actually did get Shenmue 3 by sitting on our asses, we spent money and that was our involvement.

I think this diminishes somewhat the constant efforts of those people who have campaigned consistently for Shenmue III pretty much since Shenmue II was released. Yes, Kickstarter allowed it to happen, but Suzuki wouldn't have known of the interest if people hadn't campaigned for it so overtly and for so long.

I think it's called leg work. The Kickstarter was the result of that leg work.

 

[spud1897]

Well we actually did get Shenmue 3 by sitting on our asses, we spent money and that was our involvement. The only reason it came about was the advent of Kickstarter, Yu even said it himself. Sure people talked about wanting another game or when they saw him in public they would ask but that's not some revelatory move, anyone does that if they come in contact with the creator of something left unfinished.

I get what you're trying to accomplish but there's a better way to go about it that doesn't come off the way it does. Framing is a big part of it, let me extrapolate with the example of your thread.



That's a commanding title and followup, should it not say



Sure it's all optional, you're not literally commanding anything but the framing is terrible and presents it in a way as if you shouldn't question it, you should just vote for it.

It's little things like this that make all the difference and I'm noticing a lot of framing where this title is being treated as if it exists in a vacuum.

I'm sorry but you're so far wide of the mark you're in a different forum.

And no it shouldn't. In case you haven't noticed this is a Shenmue fan site where the series will generally be shown in a positive light. If you dont like it dont post.

We got the kickstarter because we put in the ground work to allow it to happen. That was over a 14 year period. The reason it appeared on PS4 is because we mobilised and vocalised the demand during the building the list hashtag. And without that Sony boost at E3 2015 we may have not raised what we did.

What you're doing is basically writing off the whole #SaveShenmue, #GiveYuTheShenmueLicence and others.

I'm not sure how long you've been a fan but a little history lesson/research might be in order around how we got where we are today.

 

[WuyingRen]

I’ve seen posts trying to drive the Metacritic rating up and whilst I would usually be very much against this kind of behavior, there also seem to be a lot of poor Metacritic ratings from people who seem to have never played the game (some even admitting as much in their comments).

I personally haven’t rated the game on Metacritic as in my eyes, it’s an 8 and that’s where the score is currently sitting. If the score were to drop to a 7 though, I would have no qualms about signing up and dropping a 10 rating to try and cancel out some of the anti-Epic ratings.

In an ideal world, Meta critic would remove reviews from people who have clearly never played the game, but as things stand, I can’t see a problem with people inflating the score a little to nullify malicious ratings.

 

[Budgiecat]

What did I do? I voted for Death Stranding as I found it to be a profoundly better game

If you want to talk about the kingdom of all echo chambers, look no further than Death Stranding. The Kojima fanbase is one of the most if not the top most insufferable set of fanboys ever to exist. They praise him as a God for crying out loud. That game is basically Kojima pulling his pants down and spreading his ass cheeks for everyone to lick and laughing while cashing in on the blank check Sony wrote for him. I can't stand Konami for what they did to their employees and their IPs, but Kojima certainly is no saint and it very much seems like he used this game as a meal ticket into Hollywood. He threw in things other devs would have gotten laughed out of the industry for or lamented to hell and back. Monster Energy drinks? AMC's Ride Starring Norman Reedus? How am I supposed to respect or take that seriously? The whole game is nonsense it feel liks Kojima is taking the piss on the industry and how gullible the gaming community is, but I digress.
And no, its not a better game than Shenmue 3, even with all of Shenmue 3's 'flaws' due to lower budget and time constraints.

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

It feels suspicious because there's a general sense around here that dissention is not welcome so people like me are questioned, and it's become quite synonymous with the Shenmue community in general. Frankly I've stayed away from it my entire time involved with this franchise which bear in mind is since before it even released.

I don't agree with this. There are a ton of posters who are very negative and are venting pretty regularly on these forums. There have only been a few occasions when it seems it's gotten heated between "pro" s3 and "con" s3, and that's generally the same small group of folks. I feel I've personally been somewhere in the middle but no one has been on my case when I make posts that put the game in a good or bad light.

There's a Player's Choice vote for game of the month on PSN and a mod created it instructing people to vote for Shenmue III. There's people telling their friends to vote for it who haven't even played it. What did I do? I voted for Death Stranding as I found it to be a profoundly better game, and while there's only been one post in response to mine it was contentious as if I shouldn't be afforded a choice. The hell is that?

Ehh, from what I've seen of that poster they're typically not serious and it looked like they were just busting your chops. I think when you're new to a forum it's tough to translate "tone" since there's a lot of unfamiliarity with the userbase. This applies to both how your tone appears to others, and how you interpret how others speak to you.

For instance, you definitely have a lot of well thought out posts that I appreciate reading, but when you post short answers with meme-faces or whatever, I'm not sure if you're trying to be a wise-guy and stir the pot a bit. I'm not being confrontational, I'm just mentioning how your posts have come across sometimes.

Regarding the review boosts, while I won't be participating I don't have a big issue with it. The scores will all even out over time. There's the review bombers, review boosters, and honest reviewers. Speaking for myself I might be interested in checking out a game if I see great user reviews or read positive things on a message board. It's not an auto buy, it just gets my attention. This happened to me with Deadly Premonition and Life is Strange, games I later bought and enjoyed.

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

If you want to talk about the kingdom of all echo chambers, look no further than Death Stranding. The Kojima fanbase is one of the most if not the top most insufferable set of fanboys ever to exist. They praise him as a God for crying out loud. That game is basically Kojima pulling his pants down and spreading his ass cheeks for everyone to lick and laughing while cashing in on the blank check Sony wrote for him. I can't stand Konami for what they did to their employees and their IPs, but Kojima certainly is no saint and it very much seems like he used this game as a meal ticket into Hollywood. He threw in things other devs would have gotten laughed out of the industry for or lamented to hell and back. Monster Energy drinks? AMC's Ride Starring Norman Reedus? How am I supposed to respect or take that seriously? The whole game is nonsense it feel liks Kojima is taking the piss on the industry and how gullible the gaming community is, but I digress.
And no, its not a better game than Shenmue 3, even with all of Shenmue 3's 'flaws' due to lower budget and time constraints.

Its just his opinion. Besides its a false equivalency bringing up the Kojima / MGS fanbase. He's speaking specifically on the Shenmue fanbase. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the same criticisms of the other fanbase as well. Plus him liking the quality of Death Stranding is neither an endorsement of that fandom.

 

[register2viewspoilerforum]

I'm seeing a lot of "let's rally and go vote for this" or "everybody go post a 10/10 review" and the like. What is that?

Does anyone else see a problem with this? If a game is actually in the position where you would do these actions naturally then why is it being compelled to such a degree? It's not just here, it's in discord servers, other forums where "Shenmue people" reside. I'm seeing a trend where we should in essence be dishonest and inflate this game to a level in which it has not actually attained.

I've not seen this take place to this level for any other game, why is it happening here? Do you think it's getting a bad wrap? Are you pandering for a sequel? Are you trying to manipulate mindshare so people think differently of it? What's the logic?

The way I see it is criticism is true love for something, the ability to come to terms with something not being great and criticize it in a constructive manner as to help guide the future on the back of fixing the problem rather than perpetuating it. Inflation is denial, it's counter-productive, it fuels an environment where the viewpoint is that everything is fine as is when it's truly not.

You shouldn't push something to the top that doesn't truly deserve a place there, it lessens true victory in that attainment, tries to take it from something else and sets the precedent that mediocrity is equal to greatness if we force it to be.

We (other people) shouldn't be engaging in this, it's a bad look, and it's dishonest.

Totally with you on this. Been on my mind since the damage control and "guiding" of the community posts. Yu needs to see the criticism/praise in raw form and take it into account if he's given a chance to continue the series. If he's not given the chance, then so be it.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

I voted Shenmue on that poll because I genuinely thought it was the best game I've played from this month...

I will say if anything I see the OP's point but in alignment to getting members to push the scores in the User Metacritic section - I personally don't take issue with it because if you were to look at it everyone that voted this game for a 3/10 and below is seriously misguided - yet I'm sure there are review scores that state this. For me it was a solid 8/10 had the game delivered more to the table in regards to story content it could quite easily have gotten a 9.

 

[shredingskin]

But the answer is simple its because the majority want Shenmue 4

And also that even if the game has flaws most people here actually enjoyed the fuck out of the game.

 

[darksniper]

The reason why you see "compelled inflation" of this game is because the people who are voting Shenmue III up is fighting against the false narrative that the gaming journalist try to depict onto the franchise. There is a seething group of gamers who pray that Shenmue fails as a series for some strange reason and what you see is the fanbase fighting against that.

With that said, it's mainly because we want Shenmue IV. Simple as that.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

We want a fourth game and still like the franchise. Pretty weird thing for a forum built around that franchise to do.

my question is: why’d you join the forum to exclusively criticize the game and the forum’s members? I don’t think I’ve seen anything from you so far that isn’t conveying some form of negativity about us or Shenmue.