Can we have a serious conversation about the compelled inflation of this game?

[mjqjazzbar]

Totally with you on this. Been on my mind since the damage control and "guiding" of the community posts. Yu needs to see the criticism/praise in raw form and take it into account if he's given a chance to continue the series. If he's not given the chance, then so be it.

Sure, he does, but not helping spread the word about this game or the series in general won’t do anything to help the future of this series. Seeing poor sales and no love from the fan base would just mean there’s no use in making a fourth game. Some of us also actually kind of like Shenmue 3 or at least think there’s enough to like about it that we’d like to see a sequel... crazy, right?

I would say the majority of posts on this forum regarding Shenmue 3 are critical or just plain negative. It’s kind of silly to paint broad brushstrokes about things if they’re not even true.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

my question is: why’d you join the forum to exclusively criticize the game and the forum’s members? I don’t think I’ve seen anything from you so far that isn’t conveying some form of negativity about us or Shenmue.

I'm thankful someone else said it, because due to my intolerance of clear and present trolling/shitposting, I wouldn't have been as nice and eloquent.

Totally get the idea behind the thread being started (even if it IS a trolling attempt), but when a clear bias is present from day one and it is just expanded upon in a thread such as this... yeah, I don't even see the point or purpose of a thread like this, on the dojo, except to stir shit up... personally.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Since Kojima was brought up, let me ask the Kojima fans a question.

Did you love Metal Gear Solid 2? I remember people throwing the biggest tantrums over that game due to the big “twist” early on and the endless, stupid cutscenes.

Were you opposed to Kojima continuing the series because of that? I doubt it. He managed to make another three games, the last of which I also recall being a massive disappointment to the fan base.

I’d bet anything you guys would run to the ATM/cash machine if Konami decided to give Kojima another crack at MGS. You’d probably do anything in your power to see that happen, including filling out some stupid poll that means very little.

Well, that’s how some of us feel about Shenmue and Yu Suzuki. Some of us waited 15 years to play a sequel to a game we enjoyed when we were kids or young adults. Many people in this community literally stopped playing games until Shenmue 3 was announced. Maybe Yu Suzuki didn't return with the most refined or amazing Shenmue experience, but I think he did a pretty good job and I'd like to see what he can do next time. If it means I have to fill out a silly poll to raise awareness for Shenmue 3 or balance out all the 0/10s on Metacritic, I'll do it. Is it that hard to believe we are passionate about Shenmue?

 

[Dehone]

It feels suspicious because there's a general sense around here that dissention is not welcome so people like me are questioned, and it's become quite synonymous with the Shenmue community in general. Frankly I've stayed away from it my entire time involved with this franchise which bear in mind is since before it even released.

This is the crap I am speaking about, I'm as much as a fan as anyone else but because I see some questionable things taking place suddenly I become scrutinized. A thread to go inflate the games user rating on Metacritic is stickied, admins are talking about writing emails to them to counteract people which are rating it poorly.

There's a Player's Choice vote for game of the month on PSN and a mod created it instructing people to vote for Shenmue III. There's people telling their friends to vote for it who haven't even played it. What did I do? I voted for Death Stranding as I found it to be a profoundly better game, and while there's only been one post in response to mine it was contentious as if I shouldn't be afforded a choice. The hell is that?

There's a very echo chamber kind of vibe around here, if anything it's pushing me further away and I have no doubt it's happening for others as well. There's an extent where rose tinted glasses become problematic and hostile and I'm noticing some telltale signs of non-objective behaviors.

The focus on manipulation, the focus on reviews and trying to argue with them, the focus on what other people think of the game is nauseating. Trying to convince the world this is a diamond in the rough when they're never going to see it that way. It bugs me as someone who had a large amount of respect for Yu Suzuki and the first two games that things have sunk this low.

You want people on your side and this is the kind of behavior exhibited? It's become a very party over country type of situation where the goal is to force this through by whatever means necessary even if the relevance and shot this franchise had is long gone.

I dunno man.. The Kool-Aid has gone a bit off in my opinion.

Is that a coli smiley on the bottom?

 

[Dehone]

Since Kojima was brought up, let me ask the Kojima fans a question.

Did you love Metal Gear Solid 2? I remember people throwing the biggest tantrums over that game due to the big “twist” early on and the endless, stupid cutscenes.

Were you opposed to Kojima continuing the series because of that? I doubt it. He managed to make another three games, the last of which I also recall being a massive disappointment to the fan base.

I’d bet anything you guys would run to the ATM/cash machine if Konami decided to give Kojima another crack at MGS. You’d probably do anything in your power to see that happen, including filling out some stupid poll that means very little.

Well, that’s how some of us feel about Shenmue and Yu Suzuki. Some of us waited 15 years to play a sequel to a game we enjoyed when we were kids or young adults. Many people in this community literally stopped playing games until Shenmue 3 was announced. Maybe Yu Suzuki didn't return with the most refined or amazing Shenmue experience, but I think he did a pretty good job and I'd like to see what he can do next time. If it means I have to fill out a silly poll to raise awareness for Shenmue 3 or balance out all the 0/10s on Metacritic, I'll do it. Is it that hard to believe we are passionate about Shenmue?

I loved MGS 2. The criticism was mostly focused on the fact that Raiden replaced snake for the bulk of the game. People still loved the game overall. And that's the point. People made it heard that they didn't like certain things. Many in not so nice ways. I remember Raiden getting shit on heavily back then. Probably would've been a meme in a different era. Plenty of fans shit on the Phantom Pain and Ground Zeros as well.

I don't hear any mass collective from the MGS fanbase going to the lengths of the shenmue community to "save" MGS, especially when they've gotten like 10 entries since the 80s.

Im also sure most MGS fans would open their wallet for a new MGS. I would and would still criticize anything i didnt like. Maybe im missing something, but I dont understand what your post has to do with how OP feels.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

The MGS fanbase doesn't need to 'save' it because it hasn't been dead for 15 years. I wouldn't begrudge them if they did. Plenty of people like Shenmue 3, so why shouldn't they vote for it in a poll or 'inflate' user reviews with their opinions? Did you expect the members of Shenmue Dojo to encourage people to spread the word Shenmue 3 is shit and that Yu Suzuki should give up?

People here are criticizing Shenmue 3. You and your pal are making shit up about how this forum is shutting down criticism of the game, and I'm not sure why. Nearly every thread in this subforum is critical or negative. I just think it's strange you'd join Shenmue Dojo to only criticize its members for supporting the series or complain about how bad Shenmue 3 is. Why not contribute the Shenmue 1/2 subforums if you like Shenmue so much?

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

Lightly moderated topics such as “What a Disappointment” and “How Would You Fix Shenmue 3” dispel your claim. The very fact that you are bringing up this topic without the thread being shut down further cements this. Do not confuse fan passion with blind fanaticism.

While I cannot speak for everyone, I can safely assume that if Shenmue IV was a guarantee, fans would be more content to sit on their laurels. However the Shenmue series is on an unstable foundation and needs every sale it can get. Most fans realize this, that is why fans are going to do everything possible to entice people to buy the game. Fans taking advantage of every opportunity we got is how we got Shenmue III and the HD re-releases in the first place.

And finally, there are people that do genuinely enjoy the game.

 

[ShenSun]

Lol, well someone is looking for some drama.

 

[Sput Vas Normandy]

Again. People who say shit about the 10s, it's a shame they don't look to the 0s of "ps2 graphicz" and "fuck epik ztore". A fucking shame. If you are a videogames journalist, I understand, because 99% are fucking shit. But you are a (supposedly) a fan. A FAN. And you don't know if there's gonna be a Shenmue 4.

If the game it's a 5 for you, give it a 5. But then don't cry if nobody gives it a chance because the game it's struggling to have a good image and doesn't sell well and we don't have Shenmue 4 cause nobody wants to put money on it.

 

[Sput Vas Normandy]

If you have stuff you dont like it's okay, I do too. If you literally didn't like the game, okay, it's your opinion. But if you were waiting for years and suddenly starts to speak shit in social media, and suddenly enters in shenmue's forums and community only to talk shit about the game and talk shit about the "false score", you are just a piece of turd. And you can ban me if you want, I will still like Shenmue and will try everything to I can do to make Shenmue 4 possibly. But at least I'm not a piece of shit with no life like these ppl (I'm talking specifically about OP and the user "shenmue3isntgood", which is such a fan that had to say how disliked so much SIII in his fucking nickname)

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Budgiecat]

Just as powerful as it was the culmination of gamers that got this game to be created, so too is it the double edged sword that gamers can actually have the power to destroy an IP's future especially with the advent of social media.
Before, back in the 90's, it was simply either game journalists or word of mouth; but even those had limited effect since the internet wasnt as strong; so really it was word of mouth more and marketing (or lack thereof).
But ever since the first Shenmue came out, it has always been an uphill battle due to critics and gamers who hated on the series from day one but couldnt just move on and ignore it; they had to continue to bash it and make it known how much a 'failure' it was; so much so that is why it took this long for a sequel to be made. People sometimes say publishers and investors dont pay attention to gamers and critics but that couldnt be further from the truth...
Suzuki's team alone didnt get this game made; it was done because of the drive of the fanbase that helped make it happen.
But there's an equal negative drive to bury this franchise as well by even people who claim they are fans, which sucks.

 

[register2viewspoilerforum]

Sure, he does, but not helping spread the word about this game or the series in general won’t do anything to help the future of this series. Seeing poor sales and no love from the fan base would just mean there’s no use in making a fourth game. Some of us also actually kind of like Shenmue 3 or at least think there’s enough to like about it that we’d like to see a sequel... crazy, right?

I would say the majority of posts on this forum regarding Shenmue 3 are critical or just plain negative. It’s kind of silly to paint broad brushstrokes about things if they’re not even true.

I agree with and understand where you're coming from up till the "crazy, right" part.

 

[register2viewspoilerforum]

Lightly moderated topics such as “What a Disappointment” and “How Would You Fix Shenmue 3” dispel your claim. The very fact that you are bringing up this topic without the thread being shut down further cements this. Do not confuse fan passion with blind fanaticism.

While I cannot speak for everyone, I can safely assume that if Shenmue IV was a guarantee, fans would be more content to sit on their laurels. However the Shenmue series is on unstable foundation and needs every sale it can get. Most fans realize this, that is why fans are going to do everything possible to entice people to buy the game. Fans taking advantage of every opportunity we got is how we got Shenmue III and HD re-releases in the first place.

And finally there are people that do genuinely enjoy the game.

My concern is that the design flaws and critisms aren't addressed and carry over into a fourth game. Imagine a sequel having the same problems and killing any hopes for completion of the series. It's a serious possibility. I sure hope Yu's listening and I think if he was more open and directly addressed the issues in some manner that would be great. It would however be somewhat unorthodox and self-defeating to do so at-least at this time.

Hopefully some of the issues get patched to round things out. Would only be for the better. A major patch that touches even story elements would be grand, but is unlikely to happen obviously.

 

[Rikitatsu]

This thread is built on the premise that Shenmue 3 is objectively bad and anyone praising it is dishonest.

The Yakuza reddit is that way >>>>>>

 

[jsh020]

yeah I will admit I do think the whole, go spam placed with positive reviews thing is kind of shitty, but theres a difference between liking something and being critical of it, and lying about its quality like we all secretly hate it.

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

I don't want to speak for him but as an example I think he was referring to the ones who would rate the game 10 out of 10 even if they felt it was a 7. I don't believe he was talking about people who dish out what they truly feel.

 

[Rikitatsu]

yeah I will admit I do think the whole, go spam placed with positive reviews thing is kind of shitty, but theres a difference between liking something and being critical of it, and lying about its quality like we all secretly hate it.

I don't want to speak for him but as an example I think he was referring to the ones who would rate the game 10 out of 10 even if they felt it was a 7. I don't believe he was talking about people who dish out what they truly feel.

If you guys are talking about Metacritic user scores, then it's not in anyway "shitty"
No one goes to Metacritic for honest user reviews, there are either review bombing (check how many zeroes) or counter-review bombing: 10s.

It's pretty much a like/dislike system, with 0 being Dislike, and 10 being Like.

No one bothers with 8s and 7s.
This isn't something exclusive to Shenmue 3 either.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I don't want to speak for him but as an example I think he was referring to the ones who would rate the game 10 out of 10 even if they felt it was a 7. I don't believe he was talking about people who dish out what they truly feel.

You've got it, not saying people can't or don't enjoy, like or love the game. Not at all what I am conveying here, it just seems like a lot of the praise functions on a bias or inability to properly criticize a product as it stands on the merits of what it is or the consequences of doing so.

We want a fourth game and still like the franchise. Pretty weird thing for a forum built around that franchise to do.

my question is: why’d you join the forum to exclusively criticize the game and the forum’s members? I don’t think I’ve seen anything from you so far that isn’t conveying some form of negativity about us or Shenmue.

Why not? If anything the level of disappointment in the game was the sole reason to actually join. When things are going swimmingly people rarely engage, when things are going wrong it really brings discussion to the forefront of thought.

Its just his opinion. Besides its a false equivalency bringing up the Kojima / MGS fanbase. He's speaking specifically on the Shenmue fanbase. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the same criticisms of the other fanbase as well. Plus him liking the quality of Death Stranding is neither an endorsement of that fandom.

I think Kojima is insufferable and I don't like Metal Gear Solid, that should be more than enough to quash the theory.

Death Stranding is something different and very unique, it actually invoked a lot of the sentiments and feelings I had surrounding the first two Shenmue games so to play it and then Shenmue III in succession it really made me analyse the situation.

If anyone thinks I am trolling they are sorely mistaken.

 

[register2viewspoilerforum]

I was waiting for this: when your level of being a fan is questioned either overtly or implied so you feel compelled to post proof (like the above) or divulge how much you donated. Someone mentioned above about the level of negativity towards the game being high...you'd think that would be enough for folks to realize something isn't quite right and a substantial portion of backers and new fans take issue with large parts of the game. Now's the time for the criticism to be voiced and seen not when 4 gets released and we're dead in the water permanently because they didn't listen or the voices were dampened.

 

[SakuraTaisen]

I don’t understand the point of this whole thread. The idea of being honest about a game’s flaws is noble and a good idea for the series going forward. However, Shenmue is in a situation where people who have never played the games are shitting on it for no reason because they enjoy watching things others enjoy fail. People going onto Metacritic to give good reviews is mostly in reaction to those who have never played the game leaving poor scores saying the graphics suck or it’s not Yakuza. No one is lying to themselves about the quality of the game, they are trying to create a fair environment in which Shenmue can even continue on.

Secondly, Suzuki-san doesn’t need us to tell him the flaws of his game. He’s been quite open about the limitations placed upon him by the restrictive budget and human resources. I doubt he’s looking at 10s on Metacritic going, “Oh I guess they don’t prefer for a fulfilling story and more areas. Guess I’ll just half ass it.” Ultimately, I want his ideal game, not something that was filtered through demands of the masses. That’s not Shenmue.

I have not left a review for Shenmue 3 anywhere, and I don’t plan to. I don’t think these scores matter too much. However, I will continue to share my love for the series, even 3, with the world as I want others to see what I appreciate in this series. I do not need to lie to others or myself about my impression of it as I believe the series stands up to fair criticism. The operative word being “fair.”

As a Shenmue fan, if you wish for the series to continue, I’d suggest you concern yourself more with the “deflation” of scores rather than those attempting to counteract it.