Shenmue IV Will Happen - Here's Why!

Rydeen said:
I thought it was enough just to set GhostTrick as an ignored user, but his inanity is too far reaching.


Are you serious? So, you must be talking about the Kiseki series, because the original Legend of Heroes games, made by the unparalleled Kiya Yoshio, were made in 1989 and 1992, respectively--and those two games are great. If you think it's reasonable to compare the scopes of the Kiseki games to Shenmue, in terms of world detail, NPCs, scripting, gameplay, structure, etc, then you have very misguided ideas about what goes into making Shenmue. This is very elucidating, though. I can certainly see now how you would think that Shenmue III is something altogether different from the first two games.

By the way, if you think the fluff Falcom pumps out these days is serviceable, you should really up your standards a little, and play something like the Suikoden series.



Ugh, stuff it. The only movie in the MCU I've seen was Black Panther, and it's probably the only one I ever will see, because I don't bother with most Hollywood blockbuster movies. They're fine entertainment, but mostly devoid of artistic value. I've been through university courses in Russian film, and regularly watch notoriously difficult films like the animated works of Satoshi Kon, Solaris (1972 and 2002), 2001, Mullholland Drive, etc. That doesn't make me an expert, but you seem painfully ignorant about artistic media, as evidenced by this plainly stupid argument that the reveal of new information about a character wasn't earthshattering enough, by some arbitrary assessment, to validate the character. In fact, you're so hung up on this worthless idea to the point that you've entirely missed the point of the character. I already covered this. Whether or not one can guess that Li Feng is Niao Sun (which is somewhat intended to happen anyway, since that's how foreshadow works), she is presented at first as a kind, gentle, helpful person. She turns out to be anything but, which has a range implications for who she pretends to be in her daily life, and that reflects deeply in her general character. Sorry, but that's one of the most interesting things to be presented about any antagonist in the series to this point. Lan Di looks like a bit of a simpleton by comparison.





:ROFLMAO: I really hate to pick on people for their English (it's tough learning any language), but "betrayalton" isn't a word. I suppose it technically has some use, since there's an Urban Dictionary entry for it related to video game exclusivity, but the word is just "betrayal." You're just so sure you're right, you don't even bother to check, lol.




Okay, great. You believe it's rushed, and that she has no screen time. Glad you got to share your opinion about this character who is more nuanced than most other antagonists in the series (and will be relevant to the story going forward). I mean I guess you must have been this pissed off about Lan Di in Shenmue II, also. What a shitty character he is. I mean he pretty much shows up for just one scene in the first game. Can't even be bothered to get off the helicopter for his one appearance in the second game, and doesn't even say a word. Wow, I guess we should just shove him into the waste basket. What a rush-job they did on Shenmue II. I mean, there's no way we could possibly learn anything about his character if he has so little screen time. Terrible writing, indeed.
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If you have an issues with my posts, you can go back to ignore me.

I'll reply to those "arguments" though for politeness sake.

First of all, I must commend your efforts: You sure know how to use Wikipedia.

Obviously yes, I'm talking about the Kiseki series since I mentionned 9 entries, which cover the Liberl arc, the Crossbell arc and the Erebonia arc. No one goes out of their way to say "Ugh sooo confusing ?! What are you talking about when you say Legend of Heroes !??" except for a person who tries to make a point by playing the expert by rushing to wikipedia and throw two release dates to pretend they know what they're talking about.

Also, you can whine about the quality of the latest entries in the serie: Guess what, most people like it, and both the critical and commercial reception is here to say they're on good track.

Shenmue III cant say the same, despite your rose-tinted glasses trying to imagine good story telling in the poor writing displayed.

Also you're right, you got me ! The correct word was betrayal ! I learned from my mistake. Now are you going to adress the point ? Or do you prefer to be te fool looking at the finger when the wise points at the moon ?

The thing is, despite your attempts at sugarcoating it, that Niao Sun reveal was just bad. And you do a wonderful job at proving my point when you bring Lan Di on the table.

The problem is that the attempt shows what their intention was. Niao Sun isn't under developped because it was a wish. You're talking about Lan Di but the point is that this character in Shenmue I is made this way on purpose. You're meant to investigate him and learn about him. Oh and, by the way, you learn more about Lan Di in the first 10 minutes than Niao Sun in the entirety of Shenmue III.

Back to Niao Sun, at the risk of repeating myself because you dodged by point by focusing on the word "betrayalton" instead of betrayal:
The fact that Li Feng is shown multiple times is an evidence that they tried to do something here. They tried to give players an attachment to her. The thing is, it's both done in a bad way and in a underdevelopped way.

She first appears on the boat. You dont know why, but Ryo stares at her, despite them having no interactions shown. And he manage to notice her at a distance. Game is painfully yelling "notice this UNSUSPICIOUS character !!!!". After that, it procede to do nothing with that character. Because yeah, the point of her taking a disguise is to deceive Ryo. For what purpose though ? Since she litterally does nothing as Li Feng. You barely interact with her. The purpose of hiding and betrayal has no point here. All she does in the end is to wait for you at the hideout to tell you in the most IM SUSPICIOUS PLEASE LOOK AT ME way that the Red Snakes left, which any henchman could've done by waiting here.

Then we have that amazing reveal where Ryo gets a dumb flashback to tell us "holy shit it's that random character you dont give a shit about !"
There's no foreshadowing here. No writing. Nothing.
Now, I'm not blaming talent here, I get what they tried to do and you can feel like that, if they had the time to pull it off, it could've been amazing. But the thing is, they didn't.

So you can keep pretending it was a smart story telling, one us plebs cant understand because we dont have your culture (aka I check on wikipedia to list movies and try to impress people with stuff that is often cited btw), but it doesn't work. Even you don't believe in your shit when you say "it's a nice foreshadowing" "a subtle character" when you speak about a character that is fucking obvious and who's portrayal in Shenmue III is to be mean because mean people are mean and laugh when setting fire. So deep and never seen before.

Now I dont know if I'm going back to your ignore list or not (btw the point of it is to ignore people if you have a problem with them. I guess not saying "Urrduurrrr shenmue iii best game" is your problem with me) but as far as I'm concerned, welcome to mine. I took the time to give you an answer but there's no point in keeping a discussion with people upset for a game to the point they rather go on about personnal attacks.
 
Keep this on topic!
 
To get back on topic, I'm not sure if Shenmue 4 is actually the best course of action for the series. Obviously it's the logical next step but when you consider that it will likely be working with an even more limited budget than S3 and (unless Suzuki is just completely irresponsible) the final installment; you have to consider the quality it will release in. Even if we grant the benefit of the doubt that S4 will have a story up to the standard that we saw in S1 and 2; with such a limited budget, how will YS be able to cram all the cutscenes and locations into it? We still need to be introduced to Ziming and resolve that thread, we need to go to Meng Cun and discover what happened between Iwao and Sunming, we need to go to Luoyang and discover Shenhua's past, Niao Sun and Lan Di need to resolve their conflict and possibly more if the four leaders are still a thing, we need to find out what the mirrors actually do and what the CYM want with them, and Ryo needs to take his revenge on Lan Di or not. And maybe, you know, find out what the deal with the Shenmue tree is. That's orders of magnitude more ground to cover than any Shenmue game thus far and likely more story than all 3 games combined. So, again, if there's less budget and S4 is the last game... what quality can we expect from it?

I think Suzuki should start over. Adopt a more budget-friendly formula, charge fans full price for each chapter and release the chapters more frequently. That way the story can be planned out from the beginning, rather than trying to make things fit into threads that a totally different writer was setting up 20 years ago and it will establish a different set of expectations, rather than detailed open worlds with tons of optional content.
 
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iknifaugood said:
To get back on topic, I'm not sure if Shenmue 4 is actually the best course of action for the series. Obviously it's the logical next step but when you consider that it will likely be working with an even more limited budget than S3 and (unless Suzuki is just completely irresponsible) the final installment; you have to consider the quality it will release in. Even if we grant the benefit of the doubt that S4 will have a story up to the standard that we saw in S1 and 2; with such a limited budget, how will YS be able to cram all the cutscenes and locations into it? We still need to be introduced to Ziming and resolve that thread, we need to go to Meng Cun and discover what happened between Iwao and Sunming, we need to go to Luoyang and discover Shenhua's past, Niao Sun and Lan Di need to resolve their conflict and possibly more if the four leaders are still a thing, we need to find out what the mirrors actually do and what the CYM want with them, and Ryo needs to take his revenge on Lan Di or not. And maybe, you know, find out what the deal with the Shenmue tree is. That's orders of magnitude more ground to cover than any Shenmue game thus far and likely more story than all 3 games combined. So, again, if there's less budget and S4 is the last game... what quality can we expect from it?

I think Suzuki should start over. Adopt a more budget-friendly formula, charge fans full price for each chapter and release the chapters more frequently. That way the story can be planned out from the beginning, rather than trying to make things fit into threads that a totally different writer was setting up 20 years ago and it will establish a different set of expectations, rather than detailed open worlds with tons of optional content.
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Interesting and fair points.

What would your budget friendly formula look like? Not looking to criticise just genuinely interested.
 
I think it’s interesting, but if that’s what it takes I’d honestly rather just see Yu Suzuki take on a brand new series. After waiting for 20’years for Shenmue 3, the last thing I want to see or hear announced is a Shenmue 1 remake.

That floating castle game sounds very promising...
 
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spud1897 said:
What would your budget friendly formula look like? Not looking to criticise just genuinely interested.
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I don't know what's most important to the Shenmue formula going forward. Since it started out as VFRPG, I would lean in that direction, going for something like Persona, because that will allow YS to keep most of the "meat" at a greatly reduced graphical/audio fidelity (no full VO and no dynamic camera for dialogue) and pump all the money into the combat system and cutscenes (assuming combat is the main pillar). It's too late now to shift scope/genre which is why I say starting over would give everything a (much needed imo) refresh.

(EDIT) But really only Suzuki knows what's essential to the series and he should laser focus on whatever that is.

mjqjazzbar said:
I think it’s interesting, but if that’s what it takes I’d honestly rather just see Yu Suzuki take on a brand new series. After waiting for 20’years for Shenmue 3, the last thing I want to see or hear announced is a Shenmue 1 remake.
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This is definitely the other side of that particular coin. Though Suzuki has claimed Shenmue is his life's work and seems hellbent on seeing it through.

Reprise said:
There's no way it can all be wrapped up in a 4th game and concluded. Not without making it a Telltale like adventure game or super linear action game.
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If he tries to push it past S4 (itself no guarantee), that would be him acknowledging that he will not finish the story in game form. He's more aware of what Shenmue costs, what it earns, and how big the audience is than any of us. It's like the opposite problem that Game of Thrones had.
 
I think a visual novel would be a good course of action, if an action game is not possible.

Visual novel with hundreds of unused Mitsuyoshi, Iuchi Koshiro, Murata music tracks, Kenji Miyawaki illustrations and a capable writer writing the thing? Where do I sign?
 
I'm fully on board with the graphic novel idea. Just please, get a decent writer and artist (but the former above all else!)
 
hyo_razuki said:
I think a visual novel would be a good course of action, if an action game is not possible.

Visual novel with hundreds of unused Mitsuyoshi, Iuchi Koshiro, Murata music tracks, Kenji Miyawaki illustrations and a capable writer writing the thing? Where do I sign?
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I would be fine with this as well if a game is totally out of the question. I think Shenmue loses a lot without the ability to capture the essence of travelling to a new place (and I don't like fictionalized towns either, Kowloon walled city being immortalized in S2 is an amazing thing) but I think that ultimately the story is the most important part of the series.

If we were to get a visual novel instead of S4, I would still rather they start from the beginning and tell the entire story that way; it'll just be too jarring to experience the entire story in such a disjointed manner.
 
ShenSun said:
Go easy fellas

On a separate note, i must be the only fan who never knew the lady on the boat was Niao sun. I was only somewhat suspicious when she was at the red snakes hideout. I was very surprised and hyped at the twist.

Yup. Im a moron lol
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Nope, I'm with ya! Love the twist, too. Knew something was up with her obviously, but didnt hit me until she was sitting ominous at the hideout.
 
iknifaugood said:
I would be fine with this as well if a game is totally out of the question. I think Shenmue loses a lot without the ability to capture the essence of travelling to a new place (and I don't like fictionalized towns either, Kowloon walled city being immortalized in S2 is an amazing thing) but I think that ultimately the story is the most important part of the series.

If we were to get a visual novel instead of S4, I would still rather they start from the beginning and tell the entire story that way; it'll just be too jarring to experience the entire story in such a disjointed manner.
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While I like the idea of remaking the entire Shenmue story , I think it would most likely only cover the part of the story that would have been S4 and 5.

I think of a visual novel only as an undesirable way out. I think we'd all prefer a game in the style of S3 (a game like S1 and 2 was never gonna happen after Sega got out of the consumer hardware business), just better written.
 
spud1897 said:
Two thirds of the comments are Shenmue. Lots of names I've not seen before too so there is a wider love for the games. Maybe more so 1 and 2 but it's there.

As for your final point I dont know but I do expect that they played a big part in what we got amongst the other points made
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That's really cool. It gives me a bit of hope but it always feels like we are on the ropes.

I think we can't say for sure what Suzuk's vision really is until we know the rest of the story and if a Shenmue 4 gets made how he prioritizes things for it. I just remain skeptical that what we will get will be any good.
 
Remaking Shenmue won't ever happen unless it's done by Sega down the line with a new team and Suzuki not at the helm. Even then it's unlikely.

Suzuki has said he doesn't want to be making Shenmue for the rest of his life, he wouldn't go past 2 more games at the most. To be fair he is aging, and while Shenmue is his life work, I don't think he wants to be making it forever. He deserves a retirement with his family and as much as we would all like it, he's not our slave to make Shenmue games for the rest of his life.

I think we have 4 possible ways forward here:
1) Shenmue 4 comes out and it ends the series
2) Shenmue 4 comes out and ends in a cliffhanger
3) Shenmue 4 doesn't come out at all and this is the end of Shenmue
4) The story gets concluded in another medium like a graphic novel

If 1 happens I don't think the results will be good. I think the only real solution is to end the story in a novel/graphic novel or something like that or risk it dying in limbo. Either way, if Suzuki thinks he can make a good S4 he should try. I'm just worried that limited budget will again play against him when making the game.

A remake of Shenmue would be cool if it happened down the line, but that's assuming anyone would be willing to touch it. The name Shenmue isn't synonymous with success.

I was thinking about it for some time and really there is no other story like Shenmue that can be told. There is no way anyone else can really come up with a similar idea: an action adventure story that spans a single culture, long quest, and dives deep enough into the history and mythology of that culture, that lives up to Shenmue's potential. The only other culture rich enough to work is maybe India but it doesn't have the martial arts angle and the tropes that come along with it that work so well for a game.

Maybe the best we can hope for is some form of closure now and someone down the line will be able to remake Shenmue properly one day, but who knows.

By the way I found this article talking about revamping Shenmue in similar ways discussed here, I don't like all his ideas but it's something to look into.
 
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Lots of posts since my last time here, I think Rydeen already said everything that I wanted to write :)

I enjoyed all the new posts, well apart for the accusation.
I'm sorry if I touched a delicate nerve, but I still think this is the only truth and the reactions leave me with even less doubts.
We aren't talking about a bad game here, the hate toward Shenmue 3 by some people around internet is totally exaggerated and gratuitous, and can only be explained with "unrealistic expectation not met".
If you have a better explanation for the strange ludicrous hate toward this game, you're free to tell us, I'm also genuinely curious.

My intention wasn't to offend those who have a different opinions of course, but to arrive at this point:

unless we address all the exaggerated hate that comes from the Shenmue community and spread everywhere, how can we fight for Shenmue 4?

And the first thing is to make haters realize that this kind of exaggerated, gratuitous and constant hate doesn't help in any way, it's not constructive criticism (this is mostly used as a shield), and it only hinders our chances to get Shenmue 4 and for many people to discover Shenmue 3.
 
hmjohnny said:
Remaking Shenmue won't ever happen unless it's done by Sega down the line with a new team and Suzuki not at the helm. Even then it's unlikely.

Suzuki has said he doesn't want to be making Shenmue for the rest of his life, he wouldn't go past 2 more games at the most. To be fair he is aging, and while Shenmue is his life work, I don't think he wants to be making it forever. He deserves a retirement with his family and as much as we would all like it, he's not our slave to make Shenmue games for the rest of his life.

I think we have 4 possible ways forward here:
1) Shenmue 4 comes out and it ends the series
2) Shenmue 4 comes out and ends in a cliffhanger
3) Shenmue 4 doesn't come out at all and this is the end of Shenmue
5) The story gets concluded in another medium like a graphic novel

If 1 happens I don't think the results will be good. I think the only real solution is to end the story in a novel/graphic novel or something like that or risk it dying in limbo. Either way, if Suzuki thinks he can make a good S4 he should try. I'm just worried that limited budget will again play against him when making the game.

A remake of Shenmue would be cool if it happened down the line, but that's assuming anyone would be willing to touch it. The name Shenmue isn't synonymous with success.

I was thinking about it for some time and really there is no other story like Shenmue that can be told. There is no way anyone else can really come up with a similar idea: an action adventure story that spans a single culture, long quest, and dives deep enough into the history and mythology of that culture, that lives up to Shenmue's potential. The only other culture rich enough to work is maybe India but it doesn't have the martial arts angle and the tropes that come along with it that work so well for a game.

Maybe the best we can hope for is some form of closure now and someone down the line will be able to remake Shenmue properly one day, but who knows.

By the way I found this article talking about revamping Shenmue in similar ways discussed here, I don't like all his ideas but it's something to look into.
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The thing about a graphic novel is that, while it’s certainly cheaper than making a game, it still comes with a host of issues. First of all, Suzuki has no experience writing for the medium, which is entirely narrative based and whatever story exists will need to be adapted. Second, what publisher is going to take on an IP like this without crowdfunding? It’s specifically designed for a small audience, many of whom have no interest in Shenmue as anything other than a game as is. Lastly, is it going to be one massive graphic novel? I thought Shenmue has like 6-7 chapters left; if we’re talking multiple novels starting from the halfway point then that’s even less likely.
 
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Suzaku said:
I'm sorry if I touched a delicate nerve, but I still think this is the only truth and the reactions leave me with even less doubts.
We aren't talking about a bad game here, the hate toward Shenmue 3 by some people around internet is totally exaggerated and gratuitous, and can only be explained with "unrealistic expectation not met".
If you have a better explanation for the strange ludicrous hate toward this game, you're free to tell us, I'm also genuinely curious.
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I think Shenmue 3 is a bad game; were it not the sequel to my favorite game there’s no way I would have finished it. The hate towards it is definitely exaggerated because it’s so easy to make fun of: from incompetent design decisions like tying stamina to health, to the horrible English dub and nonsensical dialogue exchanges, to the beyond boring and repetitive quest design. I don’t really want to go into it further than that as this is off topic but suffice it to say that I waited 20 years for S3 and when I played it I felt nothing. It’s fine if you like it but there are plenty of reasons to hate it.
 
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