Yu Suzuki Interview (IGN Japan): Reflections on S3, Plans for S4

[HazukiFCBR]

I think it's a great idea. I didn't enjoy having no idea when or where to access side stories. Hopefully he also learns that the pacing of the plot and lack of set pieces in Shenmue 3 is a huge issue for many fans.

This is not a huge issue....its the biggest!!! Looks like pretty much the same thing of what some us, who didnt like Shen3 that much, me included, was saying for quite a while. Theres nothing to do with markers and way points. Once again, he can't figure what the vast majority of us likes in his game. Shenmue is about deep relations. Through martial arts, friends and misticism. 50% plot and set pieces, includind event moves, wich he mentions on the interview. Shenmue 1 and 2 had several. Shenmue 3, just one, wich cost a lot, in his words. 30% events, characters developement, 10% battle system and 10% to that gacha crap.
Now, he sees the mess he did, whiling to include modern open worlds features. Nor he pleased the fan or the new comers. At least, not the hard core ones, wich have the exactly ideia of in what Shenmue stands out.

 

[Thomasina]

However, with 4 he will need to tie up or progress on some story threads as he'd be one game away from finishing the series at that point.

The distrust and concern comes from a legitimate place.

If there was ever a time where something needed to be done, it was with Shenmue 3. S3 was the chance to come back with a bang and show people, including the mainstream that he wants to attract, what Shenmue is really about. That was the time to come out with a banger of a story and say "hey, Shenmue is back and this is why you should care!". It had the positive attention from the kickstarter, and even with the negative attention from the epic deal, at least eyes were on S3.

And instead we got eating garlic and pretty much 2 small sections of story in Bailu and the end of the game.

So when people are concerned about whether or not Yu is interested in telling the story and completing it, that comes from a place of huge missed opportunity in S3. Huge. You can't overlook the massive potential that was missed here, and so we look at S4 and think "what's the goal and why did we bring Shenmue back"? Was Shenmue brought back to do some fishing and trade some lamps, or was it brought back to tell the story that captured us all 20 years ago? 'Cause right now, I personally don't know if there will be a story to tell. I sure as hell thought that if there was a ever a time to clear things up and get back on track, it was with Shenmue 3 and that didn't happen.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

The distrust and concern comes from a legitimate place.

If there was ever a time where something needed to be done, it was with Shenmue 3. S3 was the chance to come back with a bang and show people, including the mainstream that he wants to attract, what Shenmue is really about. That was the time to come out with a banger of a story and say "hey, Shenmue is back and this is why you should care!". It had the positive attention from the kickstarter, and even with the negative attention from the epic deal, at least eyes were on S3.

And instead we got eating garlic and pretty much 2 small sections of story in Bailu and the end of the game.

So when people are concerned about whether or not Yu is interested in telling the story and completing it, that comes from a place of huge missed opportunity in S3. Huge. You can't overlook the massive potential that was missed here, and so we look at S4 and think "what's the goal and why did we bring Shenmue back"? Was Shenmue brought back to do some fishing and trade some lamps, or was it brought back to tell the story that captured us all 20 years ago? 'Cause right now, I personally don't know if there will be a story to tell. I sure as hell thought that if there was a ever a time to clear things up and get back on track, it was with Shenmue 3 and that didn't happen.

Couldn't agree more. And that's devastating. I bought a Ps4 just to play Shen3. I would definately go for another game, but now, i would look for another things. Even the S3 dlcs, i didnt even think about buying them. Huge, huge scratch on the franchise to me. Maybe its better to stick with the olders ones.

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

The distrust and concern comes from a legitimate place.

If there was ever a time where something needed to be done, it was with Shenmue 3. S3 was the chance to come back with a bang and show people, including the mainstream that he wants to attract, what Shenmue is really about. That was the time to come out with a banger of a story and say "hey, Shenmue is back and this is why you should care!". It had the positive attention from the kickstarter, and even with the negative attention from the epic deal, at least eyes were on S3.

And instead we got eating garlic and pretty much 2 small sections of story in Bailu and the end of the game.

So when people are concerned about whether or not Yu is interested in telling the story and completing it, that comes from a place of huge missed opportunity in S3. Huge. You can't overlook the massive potential that was missed here, and so we look at S4 and think "what's the goal and why did we bring Shenmue back"? Was Shenmue brought back to do some fishing and trade some lamps, or was it brought back to tell the story that captured us all 20 years ago? 'Cause right now, I personally don't know if there will be a story to tell. I sure as hell thought that if there was a ever a time to clear things up and get back on track, it was with Shenmue 3 and that didn't happen.

If that is how you feel, then why bother asking in the first place? Like I said before, we can play this "What Shenmue III should have been" game all day long and it changes nothing. All we can do is deal with the cards we have been dealt and move forward from there. I mean what exactly do you want Suzuki to say at this point?

 

[Thomasina]

I wan

If that is how you feel, then why bother asking in the first place? Like I said before, we can play this "What Shenmue III should have been" game all day long and it changes nothing. All we can do is deal with the cards we have been dealt and move forward from there. I mean what exactly do you want Suzuki to say at this point?

I want him to say that his goal is to finish the story as close as he can get it to the original concept back in 1999-2002.

Or, if he can't do that, or he can only do it by making enormous compromises that wipes out the majority of the magic that was eluded to in S1 and S2, then I want him to say that as well.

Just be honest. It's time to stop with the high level secrecy and stop keeping us in the dark. 20 years, for gods sake. You can keep us informed without spoiling the story, but just stop leading us on after all this time.

I just want honesty. We're all here because we all fell in love with the ideas we experienced in 1999 and 2001. Nobody waited 20 years for mini games.

 

[Arcadio]

An interview full of polite words and visions of the future was met with criticism of Suzuki.I guess everyone will be happy and satisfied only when Suzuki admits that he is a total loser and Shenmue will never have 4.Is that right?

 

[LemonHaze]

One of the main criticisms of Shenmue is that it's soulless, robotic, that it doesn't simulate life because no one acts like a human.

I think you're overthinking this aspect of the conversation. It's a fact that what Shenmue done was unique and new at the time, the issues you're talking about stem only really from the VA, the fact that the NPCs had any scheduling was pretty amibitous and still remains a core element of Shenmue's game design.

 

[iknifaugood]

I wan

I want him to say that his goal is to finish the story as close as he can get it to the original concept back in 1999-2002.

Or, if he can't do that, or he can only do it by making enormous compromises that wipes out the majority of the magic that was eluded to in S1 and S2, then I want him to say that as well.

Just be honest. It's time to stop with the high level secrecy and stop keeping us in the dark. 20 years, for gods sake. You can keep us informed without spoiling the story, but just stop leading us on after all this time.

I just want honesty. We're all here because we all fell in love with the ideas we experienced in 1999 and 2001. Nobody waited 20 years for mini games.

I agree with this. He's been very open about the chapter structure as it pertained to VFRPG and stuff 20 years ago but has been very opaque about how that translates to Shenmue as it exists today. I get that things have been moved around and it might be difficult to get a sense of how much from each chapter has been moved around but how about this: Suzuki claims that we're 40% of the way through the story; break down how much of that is in each game and how much will be in future games (more or less). So by the time S4 is done will we be at 60%? 70%? Did S3 represent 10%? Or was it closer to 20%? More transparency can only be a good thing at this point and as a bonus it will help manage expectations moving forward.

 

[bcdcdude]

Christ, reading this is getting depressing.

To try and get things back on track, it seems some mainstream press has picked up on the translated article. It's a shame Switch wasn't credited (VGC was)

Shenmue 4 could still happen; Yu Suzuki wants to ‘do something new’

The creator of Shenmue still seems optimistic another sequel could happen, as he admits he has to appeal to a more mainstream audience.

metro.co.uk

Shenmue 3 Director Believes 4th Game Will Happen, But It Would Need To Be More Mainstream

Shenmue 3 was not a huge success, but Yu Suzuki believes that he'll be able to make Shenmue 4--albeit with some changes.

www.gamespot.com

Shenmue 4 will happen, according to Yu Suzuki, but it'll be more mainstream

Shenmue 4 would include fast travel, time-skip options, and a better UI to appeal to more players

www.gamesradar.com

etc

 

[mjqjazzbar]

An interview full of polite words and visions of the future was met with criticism of Suzuki.I guess everyone will be happy and satisfied only when Suzuki admits that he is a total loser and Shenmue will never have 4.Is that right?

To be fair, some of the people who liked Shenmue 3 are also piling on Yu Suzuki for conceding that he might need to introduce some QOL features into the next game. Truly an unenviable position to be in right now... Hopefully he just makes the game he wants to make and gives less interviews because it seems he can never win.

 

[spud1897]

I wan

I want him to say that his goal is to finish the story as close as he can get it to the original concept back in 1999-2002.

Or, if he can't do that, or he can only do it by making enormous compromises that wipes out the majority of the magic that was eluded to in S1 and S2, then I want him to say that as well.

Just be honest. It's time to stop with the high level secrecy and stop keeping us in the dark. 20 years, for gods sake. You can keep us informed without spoiling the story, but just stop leading us on after all this time.

I just want honesty. We're all here because we all fell in love with the ideas we experienced in 1999 and 2001. Nobody waited 20 years for mini games.

I think you're clutching at straws if you think he will say that or anything close to it.

We didn't wait for mini-games we waited for Shenmue III and we got it. Whether it met your personal expectations is down to that, personal expectation. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[spud1897]

To be fair, some of the people who liked Shenmue 3 are also piling on Yu Suzuki for conceding that he might need to introduce some QOL features into the next game. Truly an unenviable position to be in right now... Hopefully he just makes the game he wants to make and gives less interviews because it seems he can never win.

This.... he just needs to make what he wants and sod it.

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

I wan

I want him to say that his goal is to finish the story as close as he can get it to the original concept back in 1999-2002.

Or, if he can't do that, or he can only do it by making enormous compromises that wipes out the majority of the magic that was eluded to in S1 and S2, then I want him to say that as well.

Just be honest. It's time to stop with the high level secrecy and stop keeping us in the dark. 20 years, for gods sake. You can keep us informed without spoiling the story, but just stop leading us on after all this time.

I just want honesty. We're all here because we all fell in love with the ideas we experienced in 1999 and 2001. Nobody waited 20 years for mini games.

So the quote about him wanting to flesh out Shenhua and Ren's backstory is not proof of that? Or where he wants to answer the mysteries that he's laid out isn't either? Or about deepening your relationships with side characters via side quests? Sounds like he still cares about the storyline to me. Whether you trust him to deliver or not is up to you.

 

[Yokosuka]

Christ, reading this is getting depressing.

To try and get things back on track, it seems some mainstream press has picked up on the translated article. It's a shame Switch wasn't credited (VGC was)

Shenmue 4 could still happen; Yu Suzuki wants to ‘do something new’

The creator of Shenmue still seems optimistic another sequel could happen, as he admits he has to appeal to a more mainstream audience.

metro.co.uk

Shenmue 3 Director Believes 4th Game Will Happen, But It Would Need To Be More Mainstream

Shenmue 3 was not a huge success, but Yu Suzuki believes that he'll be able to make Shenmue 4--albeit with some changes.

www.gamespot.com

Shenmue 4 will happen, according to Yu Suzuki, but it'll be more mainstream

Shenmue 4 would include fast travel, time-skip options, and a better UI to appeal to more players

www.gamesradar.com

etc

Reading Shenmue "4" in big letters still sounds unreal and fascinating. I took screenshots when Shenmue 4 & 5 got head-titled in some article after Yu literally mentioned it in 2015.

Spoiler

If S4 gets announced, I take the champagne out. New hopes, new sights... and long years of hibernation to bear again (hopefully).

 

[DoubleO_Ren]

Any chance some of that 20 million is for Shenmue 4 and that Suzuki has assets and maybe even gameplay/cutscenes for Baisha ready to go? Cos I'm saying man, it seems highly likely with the confidence he has about Shenmue 4.

 

[spud1897]

Any chance some of that 20 million is for Shenmue 4 and that Suzuki has assets and maybe even gameplay/cutscenes for Baisha ready to go? Cos I'm saying man, it seems highly likely with the confidence he has about Shenmue 4.

We know that some of Baisha was made from an early Kickstarter update so there's definitely some assets. How developed they are I've no idea but I with you in thinking there's more there than we know about.

 

[Thomasina]

We didn't wait for mini-games we waited for Shenmue III and we got it. Whether it met your personal expectations is down to that, personal expectation. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Yes, what I said is my opinion. That goes without saying.

I'm certainly not alone in thinking s3 was a huge letdown, and that it had an abysmal amount of story development. Evidently some people were going to be satisfied with s3 no matter what it was. I'm not one of those people.

 

[spud1897]

Yes, what I said is my opinion. That goes without saying.

I'm certainly not alone in thinking s3 was a huge letdown, and that it had an abysmal amount of story development. Evidently some people were going to be satisfied with s3 no matter what it was. I'm not one of those people.

Maybe not but wider of this site you will find a breadth of people who were quite pleased with Shenmue III, all personal opinions of course but it is much easier to be vocal negatively than positively.

Anyway that's been done to death. It's good to see some mainline media picking this up. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Yu should of course listen to the constructive comments and then shut us out. Make what he want's to make and to hell with peoples expectations. He shouldn't pander to anyone but only make what he want's do.

 

[JCJ]

I read this thread and I feel like most (not all) of you believe the Shenmue III we got is the direct result of a deliberate plan by Yu Suzuki, who perhaps misread or was wrong about what fans wanted, but decided to skimp on story and use those resources elsewhere.

And I think that reasoning is wrong, and instead it's much more likely that they were "riding" the events:

1. They planned a modest story-based game for a $2 million budget, with three chapters (Bailu, Niaowu and Baisha).
2. They got triple that from the Kickstarter, and decided to invest on "gamey" content (fighting system, minigames, collectibles, etc) to make the game more in line with previous Shenmues and not so barren.
3. They doubled the budget mid-project with the Deep Silver deal. And by that time it was really difficult to alter the story structure, which was already planned and in progress. So they used the budget to expand whatever could be expanded: more items, more moves, more minigames, bigger scenarios. And also to redo the character models with that Indian 3rd party.
4. They mismanaged the schedule of the project (as happens with abut 40% of software projects, anyway), the publisher didn't want to give them more time/funds, and thus were forced to "chop" the Baisha chapter, which was the climax of the story.

So, in the end, we got a game with the story content of 2/3 of the $2 million Shenmue III, but "gamey" content and world size comparable to the $47 million Shenmue I&II. Which, understandably, feels unbalanced and leads to the easy thought that they chose to do it that way when they really couldn't or didn't know how to do different.

We've known for long that YS is a creator and an engineer first, not a world-class software manager. In fact, I'd even say the management of Shenmue I&II was worse, despite the end result turning wonderful (maybe it turned wonderful because of that? that's a matter for another thread :-)).

Therefore, I think we shouldn't judge YS intentions through the end result of Shenmue III, and at the same time we shouldn't put too much weight on what his intentions regarding Shenmue IV are now. He will do whatever the circumstances and his abilities allow, when the time comes. And, in the meantime, we should rejoice he is motivated to make more Shenmue an he looks confident it will happen.

 

[iknifaugood]

I read this thread and I feel like most (not all) of you believe the Shenmue III we got is the direct result of a deliberate plan by Yu Suzuki, who perhaps misread or was wrong about what fans wanted, but decided to skimp on story and use those resources elsewhere.

And I think that reasoning is wrong, and instead it's much more likely that they were "riding" the events:

1. They planned a modest story-based game for a $2 million budget, with three chapters (Bailu, Niaowu and Baisha).
2. They got triple that from the Kickstarter, and decided to invest on "gamey" content (fighting system, minigames, collectibles, etc) to make the game more in line with previous Shenmues and not so barren.
3. They doubled the budget mid-project with the Deep Silver deal. And by that time it was really difficult to alter the story structure, which was already planned and in progress. So they used the budget to expand whatever could be expanded: more items, more moves, more minigames, bigger scenarios. And also to redo the character models with that Indian 3rd party.
4. They mismanaged the schedule of the project (as happens with abut 40% of software projects, anyway), the publisher didn't want to give them more time/funds, and thus were forced to "chop" the Baisha chapter, which was the climax of the story.

So, in the end, we got a game with the story content of 2/3 of the $2 million Shenmue III, but "gamey" content and world size comparable to the $47 million Shenmue I&II. Which, understandably, feels unbalanced and leads to the easy thought that they chose to do it that way when they really couldn't or didn't know how to do it.

We've known for long that YS is a creator and an engineer first, not a world-class software manager. In fact, I'd even say the management of Shenmue I&II was worse, despite the end result turning wonderful (maybe it turned wonderful because of that? that's a matter for another thread :-)).

Therefore, I think we shouldn't judge YS intentions through the end result of Shenmue III, and at the same time we shouldn't put too much weight on what his intentions regarding Shenmue IV are now. He will do whatever the circumstances and his abilities allow, when the time comes. And, in the meantime, we should rejoice he is motivated to make more Shenmue an he looks confident it will happen.

This is almost exactly what I assume happened except:

They got triple that from the Kickstarter, and decided to invest on "gamey" content (fighting system, minigames, collectibles, etc) to make the game more in line with previous Shenmues and not so barren.

This should not have happened with the amount of story content they had (easy to play armchair game designer, I know). This is what we mean when we say that they chose to focus on mini games over story; triple the budget should've gone exclusively to fighting and story stuff and, should Suzuki make S4, this is exactly what he should prioritize.

and:

They mismanaged the schedule of the project (as happens with abut 40% of software projects, anyway), the publisher didn't want to give them more time/funds, and thus were forced to "chop" the Baisha chapter, which was the climax of the story.

Baisha was cut fairly early (likely around the time DS granted additional funding). It's the only location that wasn't shown in any of the trailers and any story content needed in Baisha was likely moved to the Castle section. There's no way a game this tight on money and time cut expensive things like cutscenes and story sequences; anything like that that was done for Baisha was moved to the Castle section.

Otherwise everything you said is spot on.