A fan that bashes shenmue?

My thoughts might a bit weird. I think the Shenmue 2 is a better game but Shenmue 1 is a better Shenmue. As the Autor in the text said, Shenmue 1 had no comfort functions at all. You had to wait till the Events happen and were rather lost in the world. You had to find out all the Things by your own without any comfort functions. I really like that.

2 on the other Hand was of Course still a full blown Shenmue game but it had some light comfort Features and played a bit better than 1. 2 was in some ways already a early Yakuza prototype just way deeper than the early Yakuza games, while Shenmue 1 is still unique up to this day.
 
I remember being a little confused reading this article a couple of weeks ago because despite the long list of problems and quibbles the guy had with the game I was waiting for the "Despite that here's the thing that makes people love it" which never quite seemed to come. So you're just left feeling a little bit like "Cheers for that, mate."

It feels quite apologetic, like when you have a favourite movie but you know it probably hasn't aged like a fine wine. When you start to try and look at it through the eyes of someone else who has never experienced it, you look at the flaws and try to point them out before somebody else can. Which is fine, but when your article is called "Why People Love Shenmue" you need some of the praise to come through as well, or the reasons WHY you claim to love it. Hopefully those reasons would be a bit stronger than "Well, I quite liked the fighting actually."

But reading through the article again I can see that the guy has tried to sprinkle in bits and pieces of praise along the way but it always feels a bit like faint praise. That's probably the most confusing thing, it doesn't read like a fan. It maybe reads like a british fan of anything thought "Yeah, it's a bit shit. That part is rubbish. But I love it." Maybe that's some context that might be necessary to consider. Can't be too harsh on the guy though, I think he is just a reader who has written in to the paper, so he probably is speaking the true word vomit of a fan who just feels a bit too protective of the thing he loves.

But I expect to see a lot of these articles popping up over the next few months, it's part and parcel of the revision that comes with any returning game series. And I guess, it is what it is. There are probably going to be lots of people who dislike these games for valid, personal, or entirely inconsequential reasons over the next couple of months. The third included. I would just try and take solace in the fact that the only opinion that matters about why a person loves a game is their own. After all, love is a strong word, and a confusing one as well. It brings about a lot of conflicting emotions and not everyone loves in the same way.

I might not have been as clear as I intended. I have been trying to write this response quite sneakily at work. So not everything might sound exactly how I intended it to.

I notice I've been saying "he" a lot as well, without actually knowing if a guy wrote it or not. But I'm a bit too lazy to go and change everything in advance. DMR isn't enough of a name to go by to make an assumption one way or another but it was worth pointing out to myself.
 
Yeah, this guy misses the point of Shenmue. It's great that he likes Shenmue II at least, but he seems to be of the "it's like Yakuza, but not good" crowd.

Jetmcfancy said:
I notice I've been saying "he" a lot as well, without actually knowing if a guy wrote it or not. But I'm a bit too lazy to go and change everything in advance. DMR isn't enough of a name to go by to make an assumption one way or another but it was worth pointing out to myself.
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Given there's a guy called Dean Michael Ryan in the comments...
 
He seems like he's just trying to be honest about how Shenmue doesn't live up to casual/modern gamer standards but he still loves it because it's quirky? I dunno I'm not reading that whole thing but that's what it seems like to me from just skimming through it...

I mean, I can certainly understand why Shenmue is not a mass appeal game, but I would never judge it in that way as mass appeal things usually don't appeal to me lmfao
 
DigitalDuck said:
Yeah, this guy misses the point of Shenmue. It's great that he likes Shenmue II at least, but he seems to be of the "it's like Yakuza, but not good" crowd.



Given there's a guy called Dean Michael Ryan in the comments...
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Unfortunately, the comments are blocked out on my filter at work. But hey-ho. A mistake made.
 
Shenmue is also called a walking sim in this game. Why is just Shenmue insulted with that stuff? Why nobody dares to call Red Dead Redemption 2 a horse riding simulation? Is that the Rockstar Fan bonus. The funny thing is, that most people do not like in shenmue they suddenlike like in Games like Red Dead Redemption 2 or other big AAA titles. Somtimes I really doubt that the people writing such stuff are fully objective. they tend to forgive flaws easier when the game has a big AAA company behind it while they are very hard to more unknown games.
 
9dragons said:
Shenmue is also called a walking sim in this game. Why is just Shenmue insulted with that stuff? Why nobody dares to call Red Dead Redemption 2 a horse riding simulation? Is that the Rockstar Fan bonus. The funny thing is, that most people do not like in shenmue they suddenlike like in Games like Red Dead Redemption 2 or other big AAA titles. Somtimes I really doubt that the people writing such stuff are fully objective. they tend to forgive flaws easier when the game has a big AAA company behind it while they are very hard to more unknown games.
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It really has nothing to do with that. It's that in games like red dead you can shoot people and bang hookers and do whatever you want really. Shenmue is more immersive in a completely different, non traditional gaming way. Shenmue just doesn't have the mass appeal a modern open world game does...
 
9dragons said:
Shenmue is also called a walking sim in this game. Why is just Shenmue insulted with that stuff? Why nobody dares to call Red Dead Redemption 2 a horse riding simulation? Is that the Rockstar Fan bonus. The funny thing is, that most people do not like in shenmue they suddenlike like in Games like Red Dead Redemption 2 or other big AAA titles. Somtimes I really doubt that the people writing such stuff are fully objective. they tend to forgive flaws easier when the game has a big AAA company behind it while they are very hard to more unknown games.
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RDR2 is technically just cowboy Shenmue. But people will get into scuffles with me over that fact.:LOL::ROFLMAO:
 
I agree with Jetmcfancy in that the author does a poor job in explaining to non-fans why we love the Shenmue series so much. The article is cringe inducing that reminds me of a highschool nerd trying to make calculus cool to the jocks. Crudeness aside, his criticisms against Shenmue I are nothing new and have been leveled against the game since its inception. His entire article boils down to “Shenmue I is a boring guilty pleasure that’s only good for its opening so go play Shenmue II”. I do agree with the author on one thing though in that Shenmue is a product of its time. It was a game you had to “Just be there” in order to understand how unique it was back in 1999. Nowadays, AAA Open World games are a dime a dozen with much higher production values and are crammed pack with more content then Shenmue had. For the rest of this post I am going to defend Shenmue I and not II because I love Shenmue I just as much as II and II is easier to defend overall.

Shenmue I in my opinion is a game you really have to have the right mindset for. On average gamers want “Action” in their games and Shenmue I doesn’t provide much of that. I am not talking about “Action” in the traditional sense more like in things progressing at a steady pace like plot, drama, romance, character development, etc. Shenmue I does these things but at a much slower pace that if you’re willing to accept you will be rewarded in abundance by the end of the game. However if you expect Shenmue I to be an over the top fast paced action packed thriller then you’re setting yourself up for a bad time.

Since there is so much to explore and experience in the first game no two players experiences are the same. No two players interpretations of the characters are the same either. For example while other players find Ryo bland I see him as a modern samurai who is stoic, reserved, and spiritually aware. Some see Nozomi as cute, others as bland, but I see her as a modern day Yamato Nadeshiko someone who tries to serve as Ryo’s touchstone early on. I see Iwao as a powerful, wise, and loving father who instills the pride of the warrior in Ryo.

While being mundane is seen as a weakness of Shenmue I I think its the games greatest strength. The ordinary day to day moments are not only memorable but make the bigger moments in the game more meaningful later on. At the end of the game I WANT to save Nozomi because she’s been so good to me and I ended up crying when “Wish” started playing. I want to pay back Fukuara-San who was willing to give up his savings to help me with my goals. At the end of Shenmue I I felt that I truly lived a life something no other game has ever done. You combine this with the music, atmosphere, and incredible battles and you have an absolutely unforgettable experience.

So with all due respect the author of that article can go fuck themselves.
 
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I thought I'd give this a try vs. slash his throat from the start, as I myself have been wondering about a distinction that may be healthy for all of us to make:
a. Criticisms of the game that are just (some elements that truly did age poorly)
b. Criticisms that come from a misunderstanding of the series' vision (chiefly, with reference to the contemporary)

My read on the article, in a general sense:

1. Merely to state is not to defend
He points out that some of the supporting cast in Shenmue I is weak. Potentially, sure. But with each example (Tom and "Snore-zomi"-- truly devastating), he effectively says "they're bland and don't tell me otherwise." To say Tom is boring because he's a caricature and he's a caricature because he's boring is circular reasoning. Nothing has been proven, merely restated. Similarly: you may not like Indian food as much as I do, but that doesn't mean I've "a whiff of loving [my] own farts." This is merely difference in taste. A sufficient defense is absent.
So too, the use of humor to distract from the lack of substantial criticism is cheap. Given how the rest of the article reads, I would bet my left pinky that "japery" was taken from a thesaurus to sound eloquent. See what I just did? I made a statement without any evidence, but couched it in sarcasm to sound convincing.

2. Claims made are often convoluted
He states that the game is unfriendly. First, he states there are no maps; that may be fair to criticize. Then he switches to things he dislikes, rather than "unfriendly elements": is waiting for an appointment or a bus schedule difficult? I doubt it. It's different pacing from the market norm and perhaps "inconvenient", but there's a bus schedule at the stop to ameliorate. So too, the forklift work is lambasted for its difficulties, yet he notes he keeps a save file for the forklift racing.
In the discussion of combat: is it something that's unfriendly, or simply bad? Even if it's merely bad, he calls it satisfying in the end.

3. Just criticism and misunderstanding may overlap, but they aren't identical
Returning to the first distinction: I do think he raises a couple points worthy of criticism in the original, chiefly:
a. lack of maps (I know it's a cozy town, so why would he need them? Alas, it's a fair point)
b. no health meter for enemies
c. the motorcycle controls really are underwhelming
As some have noted, he is trying to praise the series in places (S2 in particular), but it seems as if he can't decide if he loves or hates it. Perhaps that's his point, but I think he fails to distinguish the separate acts of:
a. judging Shenmue as an entity (the main concern)
b. judging Shenmue in relation to contemporary releases (somewhat valuable)
c. judging Shenmue in relation to the present day (least valuable).
He sort of weaves the three together when convenient: It was overrated by magazines, yet it provides one of the best game worlds of all time; the fighting controls are great, but it's not Soul Calibur; Ryo is dull because he wouldn't think Lishao Tao was a woman in 1987 Eastern culture (how enlightened, 2020 man).

TL;DR I respect what he was trying to do, but his assessment is largely a convoluted mix of opinions masquerading as facts; it both demonstrates and summarizes the confusion that most have when trying to engage this series. Time for a gin.
 
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I'm a regular reader of that site's gaming pages, and this fellow writes in with a reader's feature every other week. He fancies himself as a bit of a card, a real wheeze, though his over-egged efforts at comedy are what usually make his otherwise inoffensive pieces a chore to read. Basically it's reached the point where I scroll to the bottom of any guest article to make sure it's not one of his before I start reading (alas they get a free click and full page of ad impressions from me regardless).

So yeah, I imagine he might well be a fan, but his insistence on trying to get them rolling in the aisles has drawn him to the lowest common denominator, which is mocking the game a little more than he may have intended to.
 
His comments about the characters really piss me off. I admittedly found Ryo somewhat dull when I first started playing, though I've since warmed up to him. His depiction of Nozomi absolutely crosses the line in my opinion, as you get an amazing sense of who she is just by the interactions and cutscenes. She's not a dull character, and it's easy to form an emotional attachment to her. Her theme song is one of my favourite pieces of music ever written, and it makes me think about my girlfriend and how I miss her when we're apart when I listen to it. The other characters have lots of personality and are generally likeable; there's a reason why Tom's my favourite character and why I always went to visit Kurita, Komine, and Noriko when I was waiting around in the game. Tom is certainly extremely stereotypical, but he's a lovable character who somehow never stops being funny as well as a good friend to Ryo.
 
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