Baji Quan - Art of Eight Extremities

[Budgiecat]

This style, and also elements of Piquazhang (as seen in the "Rooster Walk" mini drill) seems to be the main emphasis of the martial arts presented in this game, as both Master Sun and Grandmaster Bei both teach Ryo a Bajiquan move; Sun teaching him the "Body Check", and Grandmaster Bei helping him learn the "Reverse Body Check" from the 5000 yuan scroll he obtained. (btw, anyone notice these moves are basically just the same though spelled differently in Chinese? Have to look into it more...)
LiuDaKai 六大開 meaning ”six openings movements” are a sequence of movements in Baji Quan that help to generate power, especially exploding power. The six movements are named Ding 顶 , Bao 抱 , Dan单 , Ti 提/ Xi 膝, Kua 垮 /Kao 靠 , Chan 缠.


Instead of learning two variations of the same move, woulda been nice to learn as well: Chousan Housui (<-- --> P+K in VF)
1:32 in this vid

Body Check is Youshi Senrin (1:56) btw

Probably why it was limited to a story specific QTE and not a manually inputted move for normal battles is because its a throw attack basically and there's no throws in this game..

Also Houken ( 1:54 ) is in this game already but as a combination: 'Thunder Palm'.
Also known as Haishin Ponken, if the opponent is behind you. ( 2:59 )

Which could have been elaborated into Soushou (Houkegi Unshin Soukoshou) for the plot of Ryo trying to figure out a way to avert the Red Snakes leader's Xin Yi Liu He Quan style (12 animal form style created by Chinese Muslims) by closing the gap close range and circling around to the opponent's rear to counter (as seen at 1:58) as it is still a Baji Quan move, and looks to be a more powerful follow up from Youshi Senrin anyway.


Certainly, Elbow Assault and Counter Elbow Assault (one of Baji Quan's "six big openings") made it into this game

(and many others such as Stab Armor, Pit Blow, Avalanche Lance, Double Blow, Mantis Combo, Brutal Tiger, Hold Against Leg, Big Wheel, Mud Spider etc)

Sadly, Dark Moon, Dragon Spin, Shadow Reaper, Windmill and Cyclone Kick, five of my faves, did not make the cut.

Also, because this game didnt use the VF Engine, Counter Elbow Assault was not designed to be as deep as it was in S2 as seen here at 3:19 for hand strike and leg strike parry counter variations:

"Tornado Kick" was improved though with an addition spinning crescent kick added after it.

But...no Shadow Step, Leg Lock Tumble counter attack or Predictive Explosion (which would have helped against the Xing Yi Liu He Quan Red Snake boss lol)

I also found it odd that there were Judo/Jujitsu toss canvas paintings in Martial Hall but no throws are taught in this game lol

 

[Budgiecat]

information on what is Xingyi quan / Xingyi liu he quan (the style used by the Red Snake boss)
and chicken stepping

(should be noted that the mini drill in this game Ryo does is called Rooster Stepping, but really it should be called Circle walking since its from Baguazhang style which is an art thats often taught in combination with Baji Quan in some schools)

 

[xinyidao]

Master Wu Lian Zh was the Bajiquan consultant
The Xinyiliu He moves are authentic too.
chained pit slash
Twin palm fury

 

[xinyidao]

information on what is Xingyi quan / Xingyi liu he quan (the style used by the Red Snake boss)
and chicken stepping

(should be noted that the mini drill in this game Ryo does is called Rooster Stepping, but really it should be called Circle walking since its from Baguazhang style which is an art thats often taught in combination with Baji Quan in some schools)

Rooster stepping or chicken step is common to some schools of Xing Yi and Bagua

 

[xinyidao]

A better video.

 

[Budgiecat]

Rooster stepping or chicken step is common to some schools of Xing Yi and Bagua

They both use the term 'mud stepping' as an alternative definition but the circle walk is synonymous to Baguazhang not Xing Yi.
Xing Yi's chicken step is more linear in motion. Thats why many people coin Xing Yi as a 'linear style' even though thats not necessarily true as there's distinct circular movements within their linear movement. Kinda like a corkscrew

 

[Crimson]

awesome thread! I was looking for these info!

 

[xinyidao]

They both use the term 'mud stepping' as an alternative definition but the circle walk is synonymous to Baguazhang not Xing Yi.
Xing Yi's chicken step is more linear in motion. Thats why many people coin Xing Yi as a 'linear style' even though thats not necessarily true as there's distinct circular movements within their linear movement. Kinda like a corkscrew

Agree but there are styles of Xinyi in Shanxi province that have circular stepping.
Also there are Xingyi styles that train Bagua too. In the six harmony hall in shenmue you can see there are people practicing Bagua and chen Tai chi and Xinyi liu He.

 

[Budgiecat]

Agree but there are styles of Xinyi in Shanxi province that have circular stepping.
Also there are Xingyi styles that train Bagua too. In the six harmony hall in shenmue you can see there are people practicing Bagua and chen Tai chi and Xinyi liu He.

thats fine but they shouldn't call circle stepping - chicken/rooster stepping
They are two different things as the footwork is different, not just that one moves in a circle while the other moves linearly

 

[Budgiecat]

 

[Furinkazan]

Tornado kick always had a follow up kick, you just had to level it.

 

[Budgiecat]

One other thing I noticed in the game upon second playthrough:

If you go to the martial arts store that has the Reverse Body Check scroll to ask the questions as to what style the Red Snake Boss was using, that store owner is a bit more descriptive of the history of the styles than the other martial arts store owners.

He actually mentions Xin Yi Quan being different from Xin Yi Lui He Quan (which it is). Though he and the other store owners claimed the style uses 10 animal forms. It actually uses 12.


More on Rooster step:

Plow Stepping (Xing Yi Quan)

Also called 'Friction Stepping' (Mo Ca Bu; 摩擦步), This exercise is meant to ingrain in the practitioner the correct forward-stepping habits and methods of Xing Yi, which are different from those of other arts (though similar to those found in some styles of Bagua Zhang). Plow stepping is a precursor to Xing Yi's 'Chicken Stepping', which is the faster and more explosive stepping method in the art. In Yi Quan, Plow Stepping had been replaced with 'Mud Stepping'.

 

[Budgiecat]

I'm hoping that if a Virtua Fighter 6 ever gets made (with Yu Suzuki's help), that they add a Xin Yi Quan / Xin Yi Liu He Quan character as well as a Baguazhang character in it.

Perhaps even an Eagle Claw character.

Xin Yi Quan is very interesting in that its essentially like you using a spear. Thats why its always been seen as linear.

But if you have a spear in your hands; yes you may strike linearly, but to disarm another opponent with the spear, you need to do circular movements (the parries). Short circular movements with the spear; then strike; all at the same time. This methodology is in the martial art all with the quick footwork needed for a spear user which is what makes it interesting.

 

[Crimson]

I'm hoping that if a Virtua Fighter 6 ever gets made (with Yu Suzuki's help), that they add a Xin Yi Quan / Xin Yi Liu He Quan character as well as a Baguazhang character in it.

Perhaps even an Eagle Claw character.

Xin Yi Quan is very interesting in that its essentially like you using a spear. Thats why its always been seen as linear.

But if you have a spear in your hands; yes you may strike linearly, but to disarm another opponent with the spear, you need to do circular movements (the parries). Short circular movements with the spear; then strike; all at the same time. This methodology is in the martial art all with the quick footwork needed for a spear user which is what makes it interesting.

it looks like there's at least another martial arts fan here thank you for the info! I was pretty sure that the Rooster Step was a mistranslation of the Mud Step of Baguazhang but... why do you think it's actually a Xingyiquan form?
By the way, do you think there's any other game that does justice to martial arts? Besides Shenmue and the Virtua Fighter series... by the way, Yu Suzuki said recently that he'd love to make a new fighting game. I wonder if it's possible though... he's not a gamer, I think he never even learnt to play his own Virtua Fighter(s), but his ideas were awesome.

 

[Budgiecat]

it looks like there's at least another martial arts fan here thank you for the info! I was pretty sure that the Rooster Step was a mistranslation of the Mud Step of Baguazhang but... why do you think it's actually a Xingyiquan form?
By the way, do you think there's any other game that does justice to martial arts? Besides Shenmue and the Virtua Fighter series... by the way, Yu Suzuki said recently that he'd love to make a new fighting game. I wonder if it's possible though... he's not a gamer, I think he never even learnt to play his own Virtua Fighter(s), but his ideas were awesome.

You are right. It is a mistranslation. just like how they got the 10 animals thing wrong. But often some schools teach both styles so there's that. However, there exists an actual chicken step in Xin Yi Quan, but it is performed differently than Baguazhang's mud step


I mean, Tekken....ehhhhh at times gets some things right. But ever since Harada took over in Tekken 4, its gone more and more anime. I guess the same can be said for Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur of course...

I am holding out for his new Leroy Jenkins, er Leroy SMITH character coming up this month for DLC since he will be the first character in a fighting game not named Shaolin vs Wutang to actually showcase Wing Chun.

As far as other games? For displays of traditional styles?

its very sporatic. Like Taito's Fighters Impact is decent I think. Faraha Khan, one of the sub bosses in that game used Baguazhang. Her whole movement is literally circle walking.

Then there's Shaolin (known as Lord of Fist in Japan) for PS1 as well. It has different traditional martial arts styles that you could choose; similar to how you could in Fighter's Impact, only more options since it had an RPG mode.

Urban Reign perhaps? Thats more for brawling though

Kensei Sacred Fist has some decent realistic movements...
I know Konami (who made that game) once had Fighting Bujutsu in the works in the 90's for arcade which was supposed to be their answer to Virtua Fighter but it was canceled. I think this is where Kensei took over.

There was a good Kyokushin Karate fighting game for PS1 called Ichigeki....

Of course you also had Bushido Blade and Kengo for sword use...

In terms of modern MMA and kickboxing sport? K-1 series, Pride FC, the EA UFC games etc.
Out of the K-1 ones I had like K-1 World Max 2005 the best.

 

[xinyidao]

it looks like there's at least another martial arts fan here thank you for the info! I was pretty sure that the Rooster Step was a mistranslation of the Mud Step of Baguazhang but... why do you think it's actually a Xingyiquan form?
By the way, do you think there's any other game that does justice to martial arts? Besides Shenmue and the Virtua Fighter series... by the way, Yu Suzuki said recently that he'd love to make a new fighting game. I wonder if it's possible though... he's not a gamer, I think he never even learnt to play his own Virtua Fighter(s), but his ideas were awesome.

I’d recommend Sleeping Dogs, Triad Wars (not published ) , Saints Row1, 2,3 4

 

[xinyidao]

You are right. It is a mistranslation. just like how they got the 10 animals thing wrong. But often some schools teach both styles so there's that. However, there exists an actual chicken step in Xin Yi Quan, but it is performed differently than Baguazhang's mud step


I mean, Tekken....ehhhhh at times gets some things right. But ever since Harada took over in Tekken 4, its gone more and more anime. I guess the same can be said for Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur of course...

I am holding out for his new Leroy Jenkins, er Leroy SMITH character coming up this month for DLC since he will be the first character in a fighting game not named Shaolin vs Wutang to actually showcase Wing Chun.

As far as other games? For displays of traditional styles?

its very sporatic. Like Taito's Fighters Impact is decent I think. Faraha Khan, one of the sub bosses in that game used Baguazhang. Her whole movement is literally circle walking.

Then there's Shaolin (known as Lord of Fist in Japan) for PS1 as well. It has different traditional martial arts styles that you could choose; similar to how you could in Fighter's Impact, only more options since it had an RPG mode.

Urban Reign perhaps? Thats more for brawling though

Kensei Sacred Fist has some decent realistic movements...
I know Konami (who made that game) once had Fighting Bujutsu in the works in the 90's for arcade which was supposed to be their answer to Virtua Fighter but it was canceled. I think this is where Kensei took over.

There was a good Kyokushin Karate fighting game for PS1 called Ichigeki....

Of course you also had Bushido Blade and Kengo for sword use...

In terms of modern MMA and kickboxing sport? K-1 series, Pride FC, the EA UFC games etc.
Out of the K-1 ones I had like K-1 World Max 2005 the best.

There are some styles of Xinyi that have 10 Animals

 

[Budgiecat]

I will also not the PS1 fighting game: 3D Fighter Maker, had a default character that used Xin Yi Quan.
Despite being a low budget game, that characters depiction of the style certainly was more accurate than Wang of Tekken and Gen Fu (who was more accurate than Wang at least)

 

[xinyidao]

You are right. It is a mistranslation. just like how they got the 10 animals thing wrong. But often some schools teach both styles so there's that. However, there exists an actual chicken step in Xin Yi Quan, but it is performed differently than Baguazhang's mud step


I mean, Tekken....ehhhhh at times gets some things right. But ever since Harada took over in Tekken 4, its gone more and more anime. I guess the same can be said for Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur of course...

I am holding out for his new Leroy Jenkins, er Leroy SMITH character coming up this month for DLC since he will be the first character in a fighting game not named Shaolin vs Wutang to actually showcase Wing Chun.

As far as other games? For displays of traditional styles?

its very sporatic. Like Taito's Fighters Impact is decent I think. Faraha Khan, one of the sub bosses in that game used Baguazhang. Her whole movement is literally circle walking.

Then there's Shaolin (known as Lord of Fist in Japan) for PS1 as well. It has different traditional martial arts styles that you could choose; similar to how you could in Fighter's Impact, only more options since it had an RPG mode.

Urban Reign perhaps? Thats more for brawling though

Kensei Sacred Fist has some decent realistic movements...
I know Konami (who made that game) once had Fighting Bujutsu in the works in the 90's for arcade which was supposed to be their answer to Virtua Fighter but it was canceled. I think this is where Kensei took over.

There was a good Kyokushin Karate fighting game for PS1 called Ichigeki....

Of course you also had Bushido Blade and Kengo for sword use...

In terms of modern MMA and kickboxing sport? K-1 series, Pride FC, the EA UFC games etc.
Out of the K-1 ones I had like K-1 World Max 2005 the best.

I like Dead or Alive and Tekken.
Other than Shenmue , Sleeping Dogs is my favorite game.
The Hong Kong world is very similar to Shenmue and the graphics are awesome
The fighting system is actually quite similar to SM and the story is very good
It’s like GTA But with a Hong Kong setting
Very open world game and lots of fun

 

[Budgiecat]

There are some styles of Xinyi that have 10 Animals

you're right. I mixed up Xing Yi Quan's set with Xin Yi Liu He Quan's set