Chiyou's Vassal

Joined
Sep 3, 2018
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Shenmue
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Rise of the Ronin
After reflecting on the bad endings in Shenmue II and III, I was questioning why Shenhua does not use her powers to defend herself against Longsun Zhao. This idea led me to the silly notion: perhaps Lan-Di is impervious to her abilities. Moreover, what compels him to unleash Chiyou? Could it be that Lan-Di is either a demon and/or vassal for Chiyou? Shenmue (1999)'s opening clearly shows a demonic tattoo on his arm. Might this tattoo siginfy a pact or "contract" with Chiyou?

Entertaining Longsun's vengeful desires for the perceived murder of his father, Chiyou granted him knowledge/access to the Tiger Swallow Style, immunity to Shenhua's power, and connections to the Chiyoumen Organization. In return for these boons, Longsun Zhao may have cosigned his soul to the demon or became one himself. It can also plausible that the Chiyoumen mafia is just a front for a cult. After all, why would one name their organization after a Chinese demon?

There are some flaws with my hypothesis, as there could be more grounded explanations for the elements I mentioned. Additionally, the Project Berkeley trailer shows Longsun afraid of Shenhua's power. Nonetheless, what do you guys think of my outlandish hypothesis?
 
After reflecting on the bad endings in Shenmue II and III, I was questioning why Shenhua does not use her powers to defend herself against Longsun Zhao. This idea led me to the silly notion: perhaps Lan-Di is impervious to her abilities. Moreover, what compels him to unleash Chiyou? Could it be that Lan-Di is either a demon and/or vassal for Chiyou? Shenmue (1999)'s opening clearly shows a demonic tattoo on his arm. Might this tattoo siginfy a pact or "contract" with Chiyou?

Entertaining Longsun's vengeful desires for the perceived murder of his father, Chiyou granted him knowledge/access to the Tiger Swallow Style, immunity to Shenhua's power, and connections to the Chiyoumen Organization. In return for these boons, Longsun Zhao may have cosigned his soul to the demon or became one himself. It can also plausible that the Chiyoumen mafia is just a front for a cult. After all, why would one name their organization after a Chinese demon?

There are some flaws with my hypothesis, as there could be more grounded explanations for the elements I mentioned. Additionally, the Project Berkeley trailer shows Longsun afraid of Shenhua's power. Nonetheless, what do you guys think of my outlandish hypothesis?
You’re giving Lan Di way too much credit. He’s not even the leader of the CYM, just a high ranking member. There’s even a Chief of Staff above him so Lan Di is really a middle manger in the organization sent to do dirty work. All he ever did was beat up a man twice his age anyway.

Just like in the trailer Lan Di will be scared af of Shenhua when she decides to unleash her power on him Ding Ding!

You’re right about the CYM being a cult that worships Chi You as a Deity. Their plan is to resurrect the monster and unleash it upon this word by using the mirrors. The great fight will be between the Dragon (Lan Di) and the Phoenix (Ryo) to stop it.
 
After reflecting on the bad endings in Shenmue II and III, I was questioning why Shenhua does not use her powers to defend herself against Longsun Zhao.
My feel has always been that she is not aware about her powers yet. She seem to aknowledge some special connection with nature enviroment and specially animals but wasn't really my impression that she projected herself into Ryo's dreams on purpose. It could be some kind of entanglement or even a hidden hability on Ryo's (the Phoenix) end.

This idea led me to the silly notion: perhaps Lan-Di is impervious to her abilities. Moreover, what compels him to unleash Chiyou? Could it be that Lan-Di is either a demon and/or vassal for Chiyou? Shenmue (1999)'s opening clearly shows a demonic tattoo on his arm. Might this tattoo siginfy a pact or "contract" with Chiyou?
It could be and has been discussed before about the chances that he's a recipient of sorts for a supernatural being and maybe at some point also Iwao's actions were driven by some force.

Entertaining Longsun's vengeful desires for the perceived murder of his father, Chiyou granted him knowledge/access to the Tiger Swallow Style, immunity to Shenhua's power, and connections to the Chiyoumen Organization. In return for these boons, Longsun Zhao may have cosigned his soul to the demon or became one himself. It can also plausible that the Chiyoumen mafia is just a front for a cult. After all, why would one name their organization after a Chinese demon?
It depends. There has been many criminal groups heavily surrounded by rituals in more or less extreme varying degrees. With local authorities and sometimes the whole state cracking down on them (lets remember that CYM has been pointed as a danger for China's goverment in the game's plot) they resort to a range of superstition which supposedly granted inmunity and success to them. Since La Garduña, grandfathers of la Camorra to 80s-nowadays narcosatanists/Santa Muerte cult-criminal groups.
Additionally, the Project Berkeley trailer shows Longsun afraid of Shenhua's power.
I always wondered if that scene was kept in the script besides obvious changes like Iwao being there. Same with other moments featured in that trailer like the mountain destroyer punch. As that trailer was a very early teaser of what we would lately get, I wouldn't be surprised if many exagerated things were downplayed for a more grounded presentation, like you pointed. For example the punch to the mountain could easily be the precursor for punching the tree and consequent leaves-rain in S2.
 
Could it be that Lan-Di is either a demon and/or vassal for Chiyou? Shenmue (1999)'s opening clearly shows a demonic tattoo on his arm. Might this tattoo siginfy a pact or "contract" with Chiyou?
The tattoo appears to be the logo of the CYM as the same design is emblazoned on their helicopter and on the floor in the comic depicting Ziming and Niao Sun. This was likely added to the first game as one of the clues for Ryo to follow. The notion that Lan Di is some kind of a demon is actually a pretty cool one; some time ago @orient hypothesized that the mirrors may have been used by Sunming Zhao to resurrect Longsun. Iirc his theory was that Longsun was ill and Sunming became desperate enough to use the mirrors and Iwao tried to stop him, a fight ensued that left Sunming dead, Iwao with both mirrors and Iwao shocked that Lan Di returned for him ("it can't be you!"). So your theory would actually play nicely with his I think, and would actually be a pretty cool twist. It could also be that the CYM are so named because they are looking for this reincarnated demon, which is why they kidnap children.
The great fight will be between the Dragon (Lan Di) and the Phoenix (Ryo) to stop it.
It could be some kind of entanglement or even a hidden hability on Ryo's (the Phoenix) end.
Isn't Shenhua the phoenix?
Same with other moments featured in that trailer like the mountain destroyer punch.
What's the mountain destroyer punch?
 
Isn't Shenhua the phoenix?
I had it all mixed in my head, the fucking head. Yes indeed, in case the story progresses along the ancient prophecy, Shenhua should be the phoenix.
Probably needing a recap soon, as I'm also confused about Ryo being the tiger vs Lan Di the dragon, or instead Ryo being "a man from a far land/the east" vs Lan Di the tiger serving Chi Yu the dragon :disrelieved:

What's the mountain destroyer punch?
It is... just another brain Glitch. Again mixed things up between Project Berkley trailer and VF1 tech demos.
 
You’re giving Lan Di way too much credit. He’s not even the leader of the CYM, just a high ranking member. There’s even a Chief of Staff above him so Lan Di is really a middle manger in the organization sent to do dirty work. All he ever did was beat up a man twice his age anyway.

Just like in the trailer Lan Di will be scared af of Shenhua when she decides to unleash her power on him Ding Ding!

You’re right about the CYM being a cult that worships Chi You as a Deity. Their plan is to resurrect the monster and unleash it upon this word by using the mirrors. The great fight will be between the Dragon (Lan Di) and the Phoenix (Ryo) to stop it.
You bring up a good point. As I mentioned before, there can be entirely grounded explanations for all of Lan-Di's actions. The reason he pursues Shenhua and the mirrors to resurrect Chiyou is because his boss commands him to. As @Seaman noted, Shenhua might be unaware of how her powers function. Admittedly, we, the audience do not fully understand her powers either.

There is also the possibility the Tiger Swallow Style was either taught to Longsun by Zhao, or Zhao documented the style, allowing Lan-Di to learn it independently. From there, he joined the Chiyoumen Organization and quickly rose through the ranks. Nonetheless, there is no doubt that Longsun Zhao plays a pivotal role in the story. After all, why would he be mentioned in the prophecy?

Where I will respectfully disagree with you is "beating a man twice his age" as unimpressive. Firstly, Lan-Di is thirty-one years old and Iwao Hazuki was forty-six years old at the time of his murder-a difference of fifteen years. Given his pedigree throughout the story, it can be assumed that Iwao was a powerful martial artist. Moreover, if Shenmue has taught us anything, it is that age and sex are irrelevant when it comes to being a skilled fighter.
It depends. There has been many criminal groups heavily surrounded by rituals in more or less extreme varying degrees. With local authorities and sometimes the whole state cracking down on them (lets remember that CYM has been pointed as a danger for China's goverment in the game's plot) they resort to a range of superstition which supposedly granted inmunity and success to them. Since La Garduña, grandfathers of la Camorra to 80s-nowadays narcosatanists/Santa Muerte cult-criminal groups.
Ironically, I was thinking of the satanic cults of the eighties when proposing this idea. Perhaps they are funded by their illegal activities while they try to revive their "God," Chiyou. One crucial plot point we need to understand is "why." How does the Chiyoumen Boss and his four generals, like Lan-Di, benefit from this?
I always wondered if that scene was kept in the script besides obvious changes like Iwao being there. Same with other moments featured in that trailer like the mountain destroyer punch. As that trailer was a very early teaser of what we would lately get, I wouldn't be surprised if many exagerated things were downplayed for a more grounded presentation, like you pointed. For example the punch to the mountain could easily be the precursor for punching the tree and consequent leaves-rain in S2.
Seeing as how Shenmue III was entirely grounded, this would not surprise me. The mirrors being keys to the Qing Dynasty treasure, or Shenhua not using her powers throughout the entire game.
The tattoo appears to be the logo of the CYM as the same design is emblazoned on their helicopter and on the floor in the comic depicting Ziming and Niao Sun. This was likely added to the first game as one of the clues for Ryo to follow. The notion that Lan Di is some kind of a demon is actually a pretty cool one; some time ago @orient hypothesized that the mirrors may have been used by Sunming Zhao to resurrect Longsun. Iirc his theory was that Longsun was ill and Sunming became desperate enough to use the mirrors and Iwao tried to stop him, a fight ensued that left Sunming dead, Iwao with both mirrors and Iwao shocked that Lan Di returned for him ("it can't be you!"). So your theory would actually play nicely with his I think, and would actually be a pretty cool twist. It could also be that the CYM are so named because they are looking for this reincarnated demon, which is why they kidnap children.
I appreciate the kind words, though I have to admit this was just grandiose thinking on my part. As @Seaman pointed out, during Shenmue's concept phase, some grand ideas were likely toned down for a multitude of reasons. There is also the reality that Shenmue Online is not canon. That said, I have always seen the Shenmue series as a low-fantasy martial arts epic. So supernatural events still occur, but they are not as over-the-top as DragonBall.

@orient's proposal reminds me of one of my issues with Shenmue III's narrative. A very important plot point is learning more about the relationship between Zhao Sunming and Iwao Hazuki. It is important because it would explain the main character's motivations much better. We have the man who trained Iwao and Zhao who could provide this information, and we end up with nothing.

In any case, thank you guys for engaging with my hypothesis, however silly it might be.
 
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That said, I have always seen the Shenmue series as low-fantasy martial arts epic. So supernatural events still occur, but they are not as over-the-top as DragonBall.
Definitely. This has been part of the secret sauce of the series for me; I would be much less interested in Shenmue's narrative if it was a straight martial arts revenge story. I always find "the line" that people have for supernatural elements breaking suspension of disbelief interesting (this is a longstanding debate with fans of Indiana Jones) and S1 and 2 handle it honestly quite masterfully. While I would never expect Ryo to be shooting fireballs, Shenhua's Qi blast from the Project Berkley trailer shows that it's not that far fetched. It's all in the execution.
@orient's proposal reminds me of one of my issues with Shenmue III's narrative.
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A very important plot point is learning more about the relationship between Zhao Sunming and Iwao Hazuki. It is important because it would explain the main character's motivations much better. We have the man who trained Iwao and Zhao who could provide this information, and we end up with nothing.
It's fine if there isn't much to their relationship, since the story isn't about them, but then the story needs to move past this plot point in order to remain interesting. Particularly if the story is going to be 5 (much less 7) installments.
 
I have only vague memories of coming up with that theory (ugh, getting older) but really, I think it's likely Iwao did kill Zhao but had a justifiable reason for doing so. I think Zhao wanting to use the mirrors to save his son's life, for example, through an act of misguided desperation, could be one scenario, given all the father/son/orphan stuff running through Shenmue.

I'd be pretty surprised if the story turned out like "Iwao sucked, actually", even if that would be kinda cool. I think it's more likely he did it justifiably (most interesting) or he didn't do it and was framed (maybe less interesting, but depends on the execution).
 
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