Deep Silver’s continued involvement with Shenmue

WuyingRen

WuyingRen

Joined
Aug 22, 2018
There’s a lot of talk around the forums about whether Shenmue three will sell well enough to secure Deep Silver’s future involvement with the series.

Whilst I’m keen to see the series continue, I’m wondering whether we as fans of the series or Yu Suzuki as it’s creator, should be so keen to see Deep Silver publishing future Shenmue games.

I’ve no doubt that having DS on board for Shenmue 3 lead to a better game, but aside from providing funds for development, I find it difficult to see any positive contribution on their part.

The marketing for the game has been atrocious, with mediocre trailers and old renders and b-roll being provided to press throughout development.

Their deal with Epic suggests a complete lack of confidence in the game’s ability to sell and a total lack of respect for the backers, whofor all intents and purposes, were their co-financiers.

Failure to provide advanced review copies to reviewers seems to have hurt review scores which is likely to put a dent in sales and their attempt to impose a post launch embargo was farcical (I know they later tried to pass this off as a mistake by an unknown staff member, but I’m not sure anybody believes that).

Both of these things again point to a complete lack of confidence in the game. If you choose to believe that a senior figure at Deep Silver accidentally got the release date wrong when communicating with major publications that have the potential to determine whether or not the game is a commercial success, we can add incompetence to their list of faults.

So my question is, and I’m genuinely interested to hear peoples’ opinions, should Yu Suzuki be so eager to partner up with a company that has no faith in his ability to create a commercially successful game, have hurt the game that he waited 18 years to make’s chances of success through their incompetence and who have no qualms about screwing over YSNet and fans of the series with their back door deals?

In case the tone of this post hasn’t made it clear, my answer is a resounding ‘no’, and I would love to see alternative sources of funding explored thoroughly and exhausted before DS are even considered. I’m aware that it may end up being a choice between them or nothing, but based on DS’s involvement with the series to date, I think that there’s an argument to be made that nothing might be the better option.
 
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Interestingly, I have work colleagues who used to work at 4AGames (Metro series), and they don't have a lot of positive things to say about Deep Silver as a publisher. The Epic deal for that game was done behind the studios back and the developer didn't see a penny from it- and it pissed off the development team. So it is not just YsNet who have had to suffer as a result of Deep Silver looking to recoup investment while cutting the developer out.

It's a double-edged sword though in Shenmue's case as I have no doubt that the game turned out better for having their involvement. That said I would like to see them going forward with a different publisher if they can next time around- it is hard to see who would potentially do that- maybe one of the boutique publishers like Annapurna, Devolver might be a good fit.
 
I see Deep Silver as the front runners of potentially funding S4. There's an incentive to continue because hypothetically as we would get closer to S4's launch then S3 sales will increase. They could even use preorder incentives that include S3 or bundles etc. In a perfect world I want Sega's backing instead but we need to see where the future holds first.
 
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mjqjazzbar said:
I don’t think Ys Net has a lot of options. If the game indeed didn’t sell, they’ll be lucky to get a deal with Deep Silver let alone another publisher.
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Story/ending aside, I think YSNet have demonstrated their ability to create a quality game with limited resources and with the framework already in place for any future installments, the budget required for a fourth game should be significantly lower. I think the risk of investing is significantly lower this time around, but you’re right that sales of S3 could be key.
 
tomboz said:
Story/ending aside, I think YSNet have demonstrated their ability to create a quality game with limited resources and with the framework already in place for any future installments, the budget required for a fourth game should be significantly lower. I think the risk of investing is significantly lower this time around, but you’re right that sales of S3 could be key.
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Not only that but they are guaranteed at least 50-60k worth of sales from hardcore S3 backers. Potentially an expanded Shenmue base if we compare S3's numbers. They could also take the DLC route and go wild on collectors editions for extra revenue.
 
I think the more important part about this topic is who is gonna help Ys Net and "us"
if not Deep Silver. We can talk all day long about all the things that could have been better
but it doesnt mean anything if we never had any kind of options.

I already said it two or three times but i dont see how Shenmue 3 would have been a better game
or how it would have got better reviews or sales numbers without Deep Silver.
Because their involvment made Shenmue 3 how it is now. It would be a different game without them.
There were dozens of Interviews with Yu Suzuki in 2015-2017 where he talked about all the limitations
like daily NPC routines, size of the game, voice acting and so on. All these things were improved because of DS,
so imagine Shenmue 3 without them.
Sure, that would mean that there would be no KS controversy for example
but on the other hand it would also mean that we had to live without any of the improvements
YS Net was able to make because of DS. There would be no money for the delays, who would do the promotion?
Shibuya Productions? Thats way too expensive. Who would be responsible for the preview and press events?
Sony? I dont think so. Without DS the scale of all these things would have been probably way smaller
and the game would have none of the improvements. So would that really be a better scenario?

And then the whole if not DS, then who will do it topic.
Sega wasnt interested in funding this game. If Shenmue 3 turns out to be a financial flop now,
why would they be interested in funding Shenmue 4? Even in recent interviews with Ys Net
they said that Sega wasnt really helpfull in the project Shenmue 3.
Sony wasnt interested in funding Shenmue 3, they were one of the parties who suggested to go the Kickstarter way
to find out what kind of game they can make with the fanbase. Why would they suggest something else for Shenmue 4?

So what are our options now? We all know that there are a lot of things that could be improved
but who is gonna do it? Its easy to list all of the failures but who is gonna fix them?
 
I don’t see how thousands of sales are guaranteed when half of the fan base is acting like Shenmue 3 not being a AAA storytelling experience is the end of the world. Most people will have moved on from their hype as well, unfortunately. Even I wouldn’t get as excited if a Shenmue IV Kickstarter were announced tomorrow. It’s just not the same as the 15 years of anticipation I had for Shenmue 3. Nothing is guaranteed as far as “built-in” sales or hardcore fans, imo.

I think Ys Net would need to prove to a publisher they can sell copies of Shenmue even on a shoestring budget. Shenmue 3 seems to have been their chance to prove that. I don’t think they’re ever going to make a mass market game that sells to the masses, or even every Shenmue fan based on what I’m seeing here. I’d expect future Shenmues to have a similar “low budget” vibe compared to the originals, which would also turn off a segment of the existing fan base. You’re never going to see masterful cinematics or next gen animation out of this series again; the money isn’t there. Y’all’s negativity is getting to me. Stop it.
 
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tomboz said:
with mediocre trailers
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To be fair, having played through a lot of the game now, I can see why the trailers have been so mediocre. What do you even show off? I wanted a cinematic story trailer, but sadly there really isn't much of a story and there certainly isn't many cinematic cutscenes like the first two games had...

I love the game, but I can understand now why they had problems marketing the game and producing decent trailers...
 
I'm a lot more optimistic at the chances for a S4. Yu has showed he can make a good Shenmue with a small budget and you bet things would go way more smoothly and efficient making a S4 next time around. If publishers see path to profit with the right budget then you better believe they will fund it. People keep expecting huge sales when the game doesn't even have a huge budget. I think we have a decent chance seeing S4 come to fruition.
 
Reprise said:
To be fair, having played through a lot of the game now, I can see why the trailers have been so mediocre. What do you even show off? I wanted a cinematic story trailer, but sadly there really isn't much of a story and there certainly isn't many cinematic cutscenes like the first two games had...

I love the game, but I can understand now why they had problems marketing the game and producing decent trailers...
Click to expand...

very true, I remember I was really irritated by the trailers because of that, but now I understand there was just nothing to show (I mean they put the lan di scene in the trailer)

about the story, I would say that : a good story doesn't need millions, just a good writer with a pen and a paper
 
Just to be clear, i would have no problem with Deep Silver being involved in Shenmue 4
because looking at it in a realistic way, its possible that we only can choose between Deep Silver or ... nothing.
I want to see Shenmue 4, thats not even a question.
But if i have to choose between a controversial Shenmue 4 with at least the quality of Shenmue 3
or a none controversial Shenmue 4 but with even more shrinked features and size than Shenmue 3,
i would choose the controversial DS way again.

Its just that you can see this discussion about Deep Silver in a lot of different threads
and there are always people saying something like everything related to DS is just bad etc etc
... but then nobody has any plans or suggestions on how to improve things
other than "get Sega on board" or something. Thats not helping at all.
If it would be that easy Sega would have released Shenmue 6 in 2010.

If we kick out Deep Silver just because they arent the best publisher,
there is a high chance that we will shoot our own foot.
 
Well, I would say the chances of a Kickstarter for IV are zilch, so at least Awesome Japan will be out of this.

Deep Silver does some unscrupulous things, but they are our biggest chance of securing a publisher again for Shenmue IV. Shibuya will probably help again.

I can potentially see Sega investing into a fourth entry, via collaboration with the rest of AM2 or a little funding, but not fully publishing it. Yeah, they recognize that Shenmue has an audience, but all they did was outsource a rushed HD collection that had to be patched up several times(and still isn't perfect) and showcase a cancelled true remaster.


A fourth entry published by Deep Silver with a budget of $10 to $15 million would probably be fine, as all of the assets that enabled III to be made came about from the Kickstarter by and large.
 
AM2 just makes cheap arcade card battle games now. I doubt they’d have anything to offer. The only studio at Sega that’d be worth a damn is RGG, but they have their own engine and I doubt Nagoshi wants to work on Shenmue when he could be working on another Yakuza game. I think a crossover would be the best scenario to bring more people to Shenmue, but Yu Suzuki said he isn’t interested.
 
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Yeah. I would like to see them throw some resources into the pot with Deep Silver, if nothing else.

Yu was restricted in this entry due to a lot of capital having to be used to get everything rolling and in place, but he still delivered a very faithful experience.

Even a $10 million game wherein he's not as burdened by overhead would probably be far more open and true to the experience than III, though III was damned close considering the tumultuous budgeting, which tells me he really still has the talent.
 
Not claiming this person is an official source or anything, but it does seem like this paints a more accurate picture of how things went down and the internal relationship. It's definitely going to get interesting going forward. I just hope it sells well enough to get some bargaining chips.IMG_20191130_100116.jpg
 
That still doesnt help us at all. We have no official information about any of that. "I heard ..."
and its not like YS Net has or had every option they ever wanted.
If YS Net had such a big pool of offers, they wouldnt have said yes to Deep Silver.
Thats exactly the problem. We can bash up Deep Silver all day but it doesnt help us or YS Net at all.
Deep Silver can just say "okay bye, not our problem" and then we are in a worse situation than before.
 
It doesn’t sound like inside knowledge to me. It just sounds like someone repeating what other people have said on social media.

Regardless, what alternative does Ys Net have? Without eye popping sales figures, a similarly capable publisher will not enter the fray. Deep Silver has global distribution and millions of dollars. The alternative, to me, is a smaller publisher with less resources. Not sure how that’s a win for anyone.
 
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