How far is the 3rd entry from I&II?

Shenmue is my favourite game of all time.
Shenmue II is my second-favourite game of all time.
Shenmue III is probably somewhere in my Top 15.

I love the Shenmue series because of the atmosphere and character relationships. III only really had one of those things, but it provided something the original two games didn't have: an engaging loop that made me really enjoy planning my day and setting goals for myself. Does it make up for the lack of character building? For me, no, but it made for a game that I really enjoyed playing.

Even if III nailed the story and characters, for some it'd never live up to the originals. A lot of us played those games during our formative years, and have spent years dreaming of an idealised Shenmue III. Given this, and the whole development situation, it isn't exactly apples-to-apples when comparing I and II to III.

Also, the original combat engine is far from perfect -- its flaws have been discussed on here many, many times over. The fact some people don't like it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.



The problem with III isn't to not live up with the originals though. Also, as for your comment about "a lot of us played I and II early on" even for that I disagree. I introduced a lot of friends to Shenmue with I and II. Some of them played them like 4 months before 3. The consensus among us is litterally the same, whenever I played it 12 years ago or them 6 months ago: It's lacking in areas that were important to the Shenmue franchise. And when I say lacking, I don't mean "not living up to expectations". Just lacking or not good.
 
It wasn't button mashy. It was if you wanted it to be.
Also, bad luck for you: I'm a HUGE God Hand fan.
And God Hand can be button mashy. Heck, you can totally exploit the patterns and such. The reason it's less visible than Shenmue I and II comes from the difficulty. It's a difficult game. But you can totally make your way by making broken combo strings.
In fact, Angra might be one of the less difficult boss in God Hand.

So no, Shenmue I and II had great combat. Why ? Because just like God Hand, just like DMC, even if you can make your way through button mashing (even moreso in Shenmue because of difficulty setting), they also have a great learning curve and you can do crazy stuff in the game.
But Shenmue I and II aren't beat em up like those two games. They have an actual fighting game combat system. And the animation work was top notch.
But still, customizing combos was a part of God Hand gameplay that Shenmue didn't have.
God Hand is only button mashy when you are in beat down animations.(Where you can press all the buttons to make the animation faster) but other than that in the hard difficulty, enemies easily punish you for using the same combos over and over again.

On the other hand in Shenmue 1 and 2, there is no need to learn the combat system since you can just beat down enemies without any trouble.(minus that ring fight where you must be careful not to get thrown out of the ring)

Shenmue 1 and 2 games also had this huge issue that they never had a difficulty setting for the game to force good players to learn the combat in it's full potential.

So God Hand's combat is better than Shenmue. Even Devil May Cry has better combat.(And at least every devil may cry bossfight was kinda like a puzzle while in Shenmue bossfights aren't hard)

Shenmue 3 at least added the difficulty setting which is a step in the right direction.
 
In response to JSH...I can't say I ever personally felt attachment to the locations within II. Sure, I loved Hong Kong, I loved exploring Kowloon...but to me, I never had that much attachment to either location. I had attachment to Xiuying, but I didn't have attachment to Abeerdeen. The only place I've ever felt true attachment to was Yokosuka and its because they do such a damn good job of making it feel like home that you kind of just have that warm embrace. But Abeerdeen and Kowloon were always Alien to me. That's kind of what made Shenmue special for me. The fact that it really nailed that feeling of venturing from your home town into the big bad scary world on your own quest.

For me, Shenmue III continued that feeling to some degree. The feeling of embarking on an epic journey across China was still there for me. What wasn't there for me was the characters. There was no one master that lived up to Xiuying or even Master Chen to a lesser extent. The closest we got were Master Feng and Sun. But Feng was sadly under developed and Sun, while awesome, didn't really impart too much in the way of anything new about Iwao.

To me, that's the thing that lacks the most in III. There isn't a moment of learning the WUDE or a moment of gravitas that Xiuying brought to the table in terms of the pointlessness of seeking vengeance.

That to me was the biggest difference. That the characters just didn't have the same gravitas as the ones we've known from the previous two games. They're just kind of there.

But the sense of adventure was still here for me.

At this point, I really don't consider III to be a sequel. I still think of this whole series as one complete game that we just haven't seen the end of yet. We're still stuck in the first half and the lack of significant plot development was maybe what hurt Shenmue III.

After 18 years, it would be hard not to be disappointed no matter what he gave us (I think)...for me, Shenmue III is a game that is almost trying to do too much at once instead of focusing on the vital things it probably needed to focus on. It tried to deliver a wider scope than its budget really allowed for. On the one hand, I applaud them for delivering a game of such ambition for a meagre budget. But in other ways, I think I almost would have preferred them to go smaller in scope but be more focused in terms of story, character and systems.

The biggest disappointment of III for me is not necessarily the story, rather the fact that some of the proposed ideas (Affinity System) didn't really seem to make the cut or didn't get realized to its fullest vision. I would have preferred the game narrowed its scope and focused in on building out its ideas, characters and story over trying to cram more in for the sake of it.

But I don't know, I think the game was always destined for backlash no matter what they did (if I have to be honest)....I truly do believe it was always destined for backlash no matter its quality or shortcomings.

But I don't know. I still love the game we got and to me (in many ways) it still feels like a continuation. It feels like Shenmue...just on a shoestring budget. The budget is what hurts it the most, I think. It's trying to do too much on so little.
 
Last edited:
But still, customizing combos was a part of God Hand gameplay that Shenmue didn't have.
God Hand is only button mashy when you are in beat down animations.(Where you can press all the buttons to make the animation faster) but other than that in the hard difficulty, enemies easily punish you for using the same combos over and over again.

On the other hand in Shenmue 1 and 2, there is no need to learn the combat system since you can just beat down enemies without any trouble.(minus that ring fight where you must be careful not to get thrown out of the ring)

Shenmue 1 and 2 games also had this huge issue that they never had a difficulty setting for the game to force good players to learn the combat in it's full potential.

So God Hand's combat is better than Shenmue. Even Devil May Cry has better combat.(And at least every devil may cry bossfight was kinda like a puzzle while in Shenmue bossfights aren't hard)

Shenmue 3 at least added the difficulty setting which is a step in the right direction.


And as I said: God Hand and DMC are beat em up. But you're right: They had better combats. Does it make Shenmue I and II combat bad ? Lol, no. God Hand is one of the best in its category. Same for DMC. And that's because they solely focus on that. Shenmue isn't a beat em up title. It's an adventure title. It's to be compared with other titles like this. With free roaming.
 
In response to JSH...I can't say I ever personally felt attachment to the locations within II. Sure, I loved Hong Kong, I loved exploring Kowloon...but to me, I never had that much attachment to either location. I had attachment to Xiuying, but I didn't have attachment to Abeerdeen. The only place I've ever felt true attachment to was Yokosuka and its because they do such a damn good job of making it feel like home that you kind of just have that warm embrace. But Abeerdeen and Kowloon were always Alien to me. That's kind of what made Shenmue special for me. The fact that it really nailed that feeling of venturing from your home town into the big bad scary world on your own quest.

For me, Shenmue III continued that feeling to some degree. The feeling of embarking on an epic journey across China was still there for me. What wasn't there for me was the characters. There was no one master that lived up to Xiuying or even Master Chen to a lesser extent. The closest we got were Master Feng and Sun. But Feng was sadly under developed and Sun, while awesome, didn't really impart too much in the way of anything new about Iwao.

To me, that's the thing that lacks the most in III. There isn't a moment of learning the WUDE or a moment of gravitas that Xiuying brought to the table in terms of the pointlessness of seeking vengeance.

That to me was the biggest difference. That the characters just didn't have the same gravitas as the ones we've known from the previous two games. They're just kind of there.

But the sense of adventure was still here for me.

At this point, I really don't consider III to be a sequel. I still think of this whole series as one complete game that we just haven't seen the end to yet. We're still stuck in the first half and the lack of significant plot development was maybe what hurt Shenmue III. After 18 years, it would be hard not to be disappointed no matter what he gave us (I think)...for me, Shenmue III is a game that is almost trying to do too much at once instead of focusing on the vital things it probably needed to focus on. It tried to deliver a wider scope than its budget really allowed for. On the one hand, I applaud them for delivering a game of such ambition for a meagre budget. But in other ways, I think I almost would have preferred them to go smaller in scope but be more focused in terms of story, character and systems.

The biggest disappointment of III for me is not necessarily the story, rather the fact that some of the proposed ideas (Affinity System) didn't really seem to make the cut or didn't get realized to its fullest vision. I would have preferred the game narrowed its scope and focused in on building out its ideas, characters and story over trying to cram more in for the sake of it.

But I don't know, I think the game was always destined for backlash no matter what they did (if I have to be honest)....I truly do believe it was always destined for backlash no matter its quality or shortcomings.

But I don't know. I still love the game we got and to me (in many ways) it still feels like a continuation. It feels like Shenmue...just on a shoestring budget. The budget is what hurts it the most, I think. It's trying to do too much on so little.



That pretty much is my opinion as a whole. I wouldn't say I love the game but I enjoyed it though. It felt like Shenmue... but at the same time it didn't felt like Shenmue. It felt like something trying to be Shenmue. It basically tried to tick every Shenmue boxes: "Mini games" "Forklift" "NPCs" "Kung Fu" "Detailled locations" "Zooming on items" "Opening drawers". But it lacked, sorry to say this, "soul". In fact, I'll be even harsher: To me, none of the masters in Shenmue III came as memorable as the ones you meet to learn about the Wude. Sure, they were more fleshed in Shenmue III but to me, they were just as important to the cast as those were.

Fledging characters is important. That's how you remember them. Heck, Shiling is a waste of an excellent design. I wanted to learn more about this character. She just felt like a subpar Fangmei. Fangmei wasn't a particullary excellent character, but she still had depth. She had a story. There were more to her "cute anime girl with a broom" facade. Even for character with no specific backstory such as Joy and Ren, you still had a shitload of adventures with them.
 
And as I said: God Hand and DMC are beat em up. But you're right: They had better combats. Does it make Shenmue I and II combat bad ? Lol, no. God Hand is one of the best in its category. Same for DMC. And that's because they solely focus on that. Shenmue isn't a beat em up title. It's an adventure title. It's to be compared with other titles like this. With free roaming.
Then we should compare them to Batman Arkham games.

Batman games also have better combat. Alongside having far better camera and a difficulty setting you can also pull lots of crazy moves in them.
Arkham City also had better bossfight battles than Shenmue 1 and 2.

Really combat in Shenmue 1 and 2 hasn't aged well.
 
Then we should compare them to Batman Arkham games.

Batman games also have better combat. Alongside having far better camera and a difficulty setting you can also pull lots of crazy moves in them.
Arkham City also had better bossfight battles than Shenmue 1 and 2.

Really combat in Shenmue 1 and 2 hasn't aged well.


Sorry. No. Not in a million years. Batman games battle system is simple af. No learning curves either. And I replayed I and II months ago. Shenmue still holds up and kick asses.
 
Also, as for your comment about "a lot of us played I and II early on" even for that I disagree.
I said for some people Shenmue III could never live up, not all people, and I used "us" -- members of a Shenmue forum -- as an example of people who mostly played Shenmue I and II years ago.

I introduced a lot of friends to Shenmue with I and II. Some of them played them like 4 months before 3. The consensus among us is litterally the same, whenever I played it 12 years ago or them 6 months ago: It's lacking in areas that were important to the Shenmue franchise. And when I say lacking, I don't mean "not living up to expectations". Just lacking or not good.
Where did I say "it's impossible for people to be disappointed with Shenmue III"?

Your incessant disagreement with anything remotely positive about III is tiring, dude. People are allowed to like things.
 
Shenmue 2 is in my top 5. First if I exclude competitive games. Only Skies of Arcadia, Resident Evil 2002, Riven and in a lesser extent Shadow of Memories came close in my experience of solo games.

Shenmue 1 my top 30. Would be top 5 if Sega would decide to remake it.

Shenmue 3 is not in my top 100 I think.

I did really enjoy the game and already feel nostalgic about it. But as you said, it was mostly unmemorable. There were plenty of adorable moments but they were too trivial to make you express genuine love towards them.

Most of the pleasures I got with Shenmue 3 were cathartic, fun and aesthetic. It might sound a lot for one indy game but these pleasures lacked of originality and further care to deeply stimulate my brain. It was modern completionism with Shenmue sauce but without the state-of-art touch of the original games.

While Shenmue 3 is a good game (7/10 to me), it's difficult to wear winkers when you have so much gems out there whether on the indy scene or among higher budgeted games.
 
For the record, Shenmue I-II is 3 in my top 10 of best video games ever
Full top 10 being:
1. The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
2. Muv-Luv Alternative
3. Shenmue I-II
4. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
5. Nier Automata
6. Kid Icarus Uprising
7. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
8. Shadow of the Colossus
9. Super Mario 64
10. Umineko When They Cry
All that Z*lda... :sick:
 
I said for some people Shenmue III could never live up, not all people, and I used "us" -- members of a Shenmue forum -- as an example of people who mostly played Shenmue I and II years ago.


Where did I say "it's impossible for people to be disappointed with Shenmue III"?

Your incessant disagreement with anything remotely positive about III is tiring, dude. People are allowed to like things.



I never said that you said that.
What I said though is that I don't think the disappointment mainly comes from the hype built over years. I can see your point, that a highly anticipated sequel for 18 years can generate crazy expectations especially if you waited that long ( I "only" waited 12 years as far as I'm concerned) but I was just adding my point on view on that based on things I saw with people around me, who were introduced to the serie this year. So they had no nostalgia goggles nor more than a 6 months/1 year wait.
 
I forgot to add.

-Shenmue 3 can run at 60 FPS and even higher while Shenmue 1 and 2 are locked at 30 .

So another thing it did better than 1 and 2.
 
1. Shenmue
2. Shenmue II
3. Shenmue III

Shenmue 1 is in a league of it's own. Shenmue II is a good sequel with some flaws. Shenmue III is a step in the right direction after being dead for so long and honestly did better than I expected it too, but it's not in the same league as Shenmue II or 1.
 
I forgot to add.

-Shenmue 3 can run at 60 FPS and even higher while Shenmue 1 and 2 are locked at 30 .

So another thing it did better than 1 and 2.
Shenmue 1 & 2 ran at 60hz (60fps) on the Dreamcast (when it wasn't lagging ;))
No clue how they fucked up the remakes, but I assume due to emulation overhead.

[EDIT] Nvm. Did some research and figured I was misinformed on that part. Seems like Shenmue was always hardcoded to run at 30 FPS.
 
Last edited:
Shenmue 1 & 2 ran at 60hz (60fps) on the Dreamcast (when it wasn't lagging ;))
No clue how they fucked up the remakes, but I assume due to emulation overhead.
Nop, 60hz but no 60fps

 
Shenmue 1 & 2 ran at 60hz (60fps) on the Dreamcast (when it wasn't lagging ;))
No clue how they fucked up the remakes, but I assume due to emulation overhead.

[EDIT] Nvm. Did some research and figured I was misinformed on that part. Seems like Shenmue was always hardcoded to run at 30 FPS.

I bet you're part of the people believing they played Sonic Adventure 1 at 60fps. No worry, me too lol.
 
Back
Top