How much Budget do you think Shenmue IV will need to give us the Shenmue experience and why!?

orient said:
I think Cedric's dream is for Shenmue to be the big prestige series it used to be, and is probably looking for an appropriately high budget to make that possible, to grow the fanbase, etc. And who knows, maybe it'll happen...but if it doesn't, I hope they realise that a "cheaper" Shenmue IV would still be worth it, and do it for the fans. I think Yu understands this anyway.
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I rather they focus on finishing the journey, and save big budget aspirations for a reboot which would be more accessible because it's a new start.
 
If I were YsNet and Shibuya productions I would stop trying to raise big money to try and capture an audience that isn't there and pair back, focus on creating a game with a suitable budget for the ravenous fanbase that already exists. I would not care if Shenmue IV looks like an expansion pack for III, it looked plenty good enough. Put that money into improving the fighting and storytelling. Trying to compete in a technological arms race on a low budget is a fools errand.
 
Down by Law said:
If I were YsNet and Shibuya productions I would stop trying to raise big money to try and capture an audience that isn't there and pair back, focus on creating a game with a suitable budget for the ravenous fanbase that already exists. I would not care if Shenmue IV looks like an expansion pack for III, it looked plenty good enough. Put that money into improving the fighting and storytelling. Trying to compete in a technological arms race on a low budget is a fools errand.
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I certainly don't want the prospect of S4 to be *contingent* on this larger budget idea, although I understand the reasoning. Perhaps behind the scenes there are reasons to be optimistic, and it would certainly be worth exploring. But yes, hopefully if this isn't possible they will be able to make S4 as you describe above, with a modest budget. I actually think they can make some decent improvements graphically anyway, without breaking the bank.

It's just that recent comments from Yu and Cedric have left me concerned that this "larger budget/more mainstream game" idea is the only game in town.
 
I really feel like CΓ©dric loves Shenmue and wants it to take back its place as a groundbreaking AAA game. But I am also sure that they know that it's a really hard and rocky path and that they can also make something great and still very Shenmuesque with a lower budget.

I personnally think that Shenmue must stay an indie game from now on. Shenmue, even as a AAA is still a niche game in its core. It was already pretty marginal back then, but it did have some mass appeal thanks to its groudbreaking graphics, animation and technique as a whole, but it was still hard for the mass to get into a game that slow, romantic, dreamlike. And today, with the evolution of videogames that are full of content and that ask you to constantly do something and constantly run everywhere, never take time to breath and walk slowly, it won't just appeal to the mass.

That's why Yakuza is more popular today and is considered better by the mass than Shenmue. It's not intrinsincly better than Shenmue, it is just more appealing for the mass, because it's faster paced, you fight all the time in a very violent fast paced numbed brawler style. So even if Shenmue gets AAA budget and technique, it will still be regarded as too marginalized to be appreciated by the mass.

And we also have to say that, since you have to play Shenmue 1-2-3 to understand the story in Shenmue 4, or at least, take time to watch a whole long-ass story recap, you'll have so little people from the mass willing to take the time to understand the story that was told before to jump in Shenmue now.
 
Guy-ManAfterAll said:
I really feel like CΓ©dric loves Shenmue and wants it to take back its place as a groundbreaking AAA game. But I am also sure that they know that it's a really hard and rocky path and that they can also make something great and still very Shenmuesque with a lower budget.

I personnally think that Shenmue must stay an indie game from now on. Shenmue, even as a AAA is still a niche game in its core. It was already pretty marginal back then, but it did have some mass appeal thanks to its groudbreaking graphics, animation and technique as a whole, but it was still hard for the mass to get into a game that slow, romantic, dreamlike. And today, with the evolution of videogames that are full of content and that ask you to constantly do something and constantly run everywhere, never take time to breath and walk slowly, it won't just appeal to the mass.

That's why Yakuza is more popular today and is considered better by the mass than Shenmue. It's not intrinsincly better than Shenmue, it is just more appealing for the mass, because it's faster paced, you fight all the time in a very violent fast paced numbed brawler style. So even if Shenmue gets AAA budget and technique, it will still be regarded as too marginalized to be appreciated by the mass.

And we also have to say that, since you have to play Shenmue 1-2-3 to understand the story in Shenmue 4, or at least, take time to watch a whole long-ass story recap, you'll have so little people from the mass willing to take the time to understand the story that was told before to jump in Shenmue now.
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I really think that the only new audience the Shenmue series is going to get are the ones that will play the Shenmue 1&2 HD re-releases and fall in love with the series just like we did when it first came out; I also believe that through the Anime it is possible that we get some new fans that will actually have an interest in playing the games; but either of those it is not going to be massive.
Creating a Triple AAA Shenmue experience in 4 is almost impossible; but if it were to happen it would have to be Super high quality both in graphics and animations; it would have to have probably the best martial arts fighting system ever; super high quality cinematography; an amazing story with memorable moments and cast of characters and it also would have to be super action packed with some zen moments along the way.
If it became a reality it could become the best Shenmue ever but would it still appeal to the masses !? Probably yes if Asian themed games continue to be a trend. But in the process the series could lose its main essence of being a slow paced relaxing and immersive game to become an action packed triple AAA budget Hollywood style video game.
Would everyone enjoy these changes; probably even some of the fans would; but I think the majority would love it solely because its shenmue and because the story would carry on; but at the same time they would feel sad and disapointed for the series to have lost such an essencial part of its DNA.
 
Deadly Premonition 2 proves you don't need a big budget (or any budget - lol ) to create an open world game with a big script. I'm pretty certain that game was produced from scratch, whereas IV has the skeleton of III to build off. It could be made for all 3 major systems with a digest movie of part III to get players up to speed.

Shenmue has too much baggage to experience a Witcher 3 like renaissance. Make it for the fans first and if it picks up new players along the way then brilliant. For the first time i'm not feeling YS and CB's 'need a big budget' logic here.
 
Down by Law said:
Deadly Premonition 2 proves you don't need a big budget (or any budget - lol ) to create an open world game with a big script. I'm pretty certain that game was produced from scratch, whereas IV has the skeleton of III to build off. It could be made for all 3 major systems with a digest movie of part III to get players up to speed.

Shenmue has too much baggage to experience a Witcher 3 like renaissance. Make it for the fans first and if it picks up new players along the way then brilliant. For the first time i'm not feeling YS and CB's 'need a big budget' logic here.
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Well, I still hope that quality wise, Shenmue 4 will be better than Deadly Premonition 2. I'm a huge fan of the first Deadly, and a huge fan of Swery in general, but Deadly Premonition had a lot of problems.

But yeah, apparently, the game was developed during less than a year and with a pretty small budget, hence the shitty technique.
 
Guy-ManAfterAll said:
Well, I still hope that quality wise, Shenmue 4 will be better than Deadly Premonition 2. I'm a huge fan of the first Deadly, and a huge fan of Swery in general, but Deadly Premonition had a lot of problems.

But yeah, apparently, the game was developed during less than a year and with a pretty small budget, hence the shitty technique.
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Oh yeah of course, just giving an example of an 'it can be done' on a low budget. Though Shenmue III on a tech level is lightyears ahead of DP2 already, which is why I can't understand why they are looking for a budget bigger than S3, even with the tech in place.
 
Sergeynest said:
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You sir are an absolute genius LOL
Down by Law said:
If I were YsNet and Shibuya productions I would stop trying to raise big money to try and capture an audience that isn't there and pair back, focus on creating a game with a suitable budget for the ravenous fanbase that already exists. I would not care if Shenmue IV looks like an expansion pack for III, it looked plenty good enough. Put that money into improving the fighting and storytelling. Trying to compete in a technological arms race on a low budget is a fools errand.
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I'm with Down by Law. I'm a big Shenmue 3 fan and enjoyed it dearly. However, all the issues the game has doesn't just magically go away from more money. Work with what you have in the Shenmue 3 engine and use a reasonable budget to improve upon it in Shenmue 4. It keeps cost low and you get to finish the story. We've seen what happens when franchises try to chase big titles, it never really works out too well.

I don't really understand the logic that Suzuki and Biscay are coming from. To make Shenmue 3 appeal to more people, you'd have to change the system mechanics, story writing and direction. That doesn't require a monster budget, and to be honest, there's games that look far worse than Shenmue 3 that have blown up into massive successes.

Now if they can secure big funding for Shenmue 4 and 5 together and not just exclusively Shenmue 4, i'm all for that and they should go for it. However, we have to be realistic.

We're in a good spot right now regardless, let's see what happens
 
ShenSun said:
You sir are an absolute genius LOL


I'm with Down by Law. I'm a big Shenmue 3 fan and enjoyed it dearly. However, all the issues the game has doesn't just magically go away from more money. Work with what you have in the Shenmue 3 engine and use a reasonable budget to improve upon it in Shenmue 4. It keeps cost low and you get to finish the story. We've seen what happens when franchises try to chase big titles, it never really works out too well.

I don't really understand the logic that Suzuki and Biscay are coming from. To make Shenmue 3 appeal to more people, you'd have to change the system mechanics, story writing and direction. That doesn't require a monster budget, and to be honest, there's games that look far worse than Shenmue 3 that have blown up into massive successes.

Now if they can secure big funding for Shenmue 4 and 5 together and not just exclusively Shenmue 4, i'm all for that and they should go for it. However, we have to be realistic.

We're in a good spot right now regardless, let's see what happens
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I don't know if any of the staff members here as contact with Yu or Cedric or even someone who can get in touch with either one of them; but I think if they had some available time in their hands to read some of the posts and the threads that we have been writting for the past months; they could have a clear vision of what the fans want and what their are sort of expecting out of Shenmue 4. This forum has a ton of information from the fans that they can use to their advantage.
Saying this; I don't want Yu Suzuki to be largely influenced by what the fans have written in their posts; but having a general notion of what they liked and didn't like in Shenmue 3 and what they are expecting out of Shenmue 4 can sometimes be a great help for a game developer specially in the development of a sequel.
 
ShenSun said:
You sir are an absolute genius LOL


I'm with Down by Law. I'm a big Shenmue 3 fan and enjoyed it dearly. However, all the issues the game has doesn't just magically go away from more money. Work with what you have in the Shenmue 3 engine and use a reasonable budget to improve upon it in Shenmue 4. It keeps cost low and you get to finish the story. We've seen what happens when franchises try to chase big titles, it never really works out too well.

I don't really understand the logic that Suzuki and Biscay are coming from. To make Shenmue 3 appeal to more people, you'd have to change the system mechanics, story writing and direction. That doesn't require a monster budget, and to be honest, there's games that look far worse than Shenmue 3 that have blown up into massive successes.

Now if they can secure big funding for Shenmue 4 and 5 together and not just exclusively Shenmue 4, i'm all for that and they should go for it. However, we have to be realistic.

We're in a good spot right now regardless, let's see what happens
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They're probably reacting to the criticism in videos like Super Eyepatch Wolf's and Jim Sterling's, unfortunately. I hope they don't take too much of their criticism to heart. For one, Sterling couldn't care less about Shenmue. No doubt the series could use touching up, but I hope they focus on what the core fans want.
 
orient said:
However, I've said this before, but I can see why a game like Shenmue III could cost more than Hellblade to produce. Hellblade certainly looks expensive because they had the advantage of an established AAA team and a world-class animation studio from day one. YS Net started from nothing and had to produce a game with hundreds of characters, reams of voice acting, tons of different game modes, a semi-open world, etc. Hellblade's an impressive game but they pulled it off by limiting the scope significantly, while Shenmue III attempted to deliver as much as possible (rightly or wrongly) within its budget. It definitely isn't an apples-to-apples comparison.
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Right on. I remember Hellblade was being talked about as an example of what Shenmue III should have done right after launch. I understand what people are trying to say, but like you mentioned there are so many factors that make this approach work well with Hellblade, yet doesn't really apply to a Shenmue game. However, I expect that people will continue on with the argument anyways.

I am hoping they can get a similar, if not slightly higher budget for S3 because the animation, models, cinematography, and voice acting needs improvement. I also agree that there were issues that were not necessarily related to budget that were a bit frustrating, but hopefully those are naturally improved in S4 due to the extra experience and feedback the team gained.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
They're probably reacting to the criticism in videos like Super Eyepatch Wolf's and Jim Sterling's, unfortunately. I hope they don't take too much of their criticism to heart. For one, Sterling couldn't care less about Shenmue. No doubt the series could use touching up, but I hope they focus on what the core fans want.
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Well, Jim Sterling is known for being "subversive" and like to shit on things or incense stuffs, just to go against the general opinion. I mean that's what he is now, a parody of himself. A while back, I thought he was a pretty good journalist, because he wasn't afraid to shit on AAA exclusive, and kinda tell what every other journalists didn't dare to.

If I recall correctly, Jim Sterling even made a video stating that Shenmue was never good, and that Shenmue 1&2 were completely overhyped shit. So yeah, I wouldn't listen to him.

And Super Eyepatch Wolf is more an entertainer than a critic. His videos are well made, good rhythm, editing, funny and all. But it's here for entertaining reasons. You can see on many videos (the one about Shenmue 3 is a good example) that he exaggerates alot of things to make it funny, and often put asides objective parts (positive and negative), because while it would be worth mentioning in a REAL critic, it's not fun nor entertaining to talk about.

Sadly, that's what most people wanna watch. Not people who goes in depth to talk about a game, but people who make stuff entertaining.

I was hesitant to make a video review of Shenmue 3 myself, but when I saw everything I wanted to talk about and presents and explain why it is good or not, it would be a 1h30-2h videos, and, not only do I not have time to do this right now, thus I should replay Shenmue 3 before doing so, but I really, don't know anybody who would be interested in a 2h video on Shenmue 3, except diehard fans
 
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