How would you fix Shenmue 3?

[iknifaugood]

But I don't fault them for this much, they were trying to experiment with new gameplay ideas (even if they didn't always work) and felt they had to tie the game feel back to the originals somewhat to make the game feel familiar

The reason they do this is so they don't have to animate Ryo properly interacting with a variety of items, this gets very expensive. So we get all the slowness of having elaborate animations without getting any of the fancy animations... yay? What Shenmue decides to "gameify" and where it prioritizes realism and what the fans think it should do is endlessly fascinating to me.

Also, you don't actually have to open the drawers if you don't want to.

I mean, the game is about exploring the environment. They should either make it useful or cut it, a sentiment that applies to many aspects of the game.

For me a better QOL adjustment would be to skip dialogue/cutscenes; something the earlier games did have ironically.

Definitely. Probably the number 2 thing preventing a second playthrough from me.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

I would remove Niaowu All together... I know that's a bold statement but as much as I enjoyed Bailu Village I feel Ryo didn't really grow a much as I expected. I really thought by the time Ryo was done with Bailu that he'd be quite established within the Martial Arts community yet all he did was learn a few skills from a Master in order to beat some thugs.

We've seen so many pictures of Ryo in this Green Martial Arts Gear and I really thought this was an indication on how he would change - I know that's putting a lot of faith in pre-production material but I really felt that was going to be the aim. While I must say I felt the gameplay reflected his training very well with frequent sparring and mini-games to grind his health I felt the presentation of his growth within the narrative was what was lacking.

I really wanted to experience living with Shenhua more, there were also concept drawings of Ryo in the mountains & forest with her. In Shenmue II at Shenhua's house there is a scroll hung up which depicts some dangerous mountains, this was never explored and actually retconned when they re-made Shenhua's house in Shenmue III.



My other reason for saying this is because I felt that the Niaowu section was basically filler - It was all focused on chasing the Red Snakes and we barely learnt anything regarding the overall narrative - At least Bailu Village started by giving us the concept of the verdant Bridge and the events surrounding that were genuinely compelling - I would have loved to expand that and more lore within the Village overall.

Also, I felt that the sub-plot of saving Shenhua's father outstayed its welcome, I was kind of hoping that we saved him before leaving Bailu and that once saving him the information he gave would progress the story/motive to actually go to Niaowu. yet it felt mostly the reason we went there was to extend this rescue quest - Which once we did finally resolve, we got little to no reward.

 

[Budgiecat]

I would remove Niaowu All together... I know that's a bold statement but as much as I enjoyed Bailu Village I feel Ryo didn't really grow a much as I expected. I really thought by the time Ryo was done with Bailu that he'd be quite established within the Martial Arts community yet all he did was learn a few skills from a Master in order to beat some thugs.
View attachment 6126
We've seen so many pictures of Ryo in this Green Martial Arts Gear and I really thought this was an indication on how he would change - I know that's putting a lot of faith in pre-production material but I really felt that was going to be the aim. While I must say I felt the gameplay reflected his training very well with frequent sparring and mini-games to grind his health I felt the presentation of his growth within the narrative was what was lacking.

I really wanted to experience living with Shenhua more, there were also concept drawings of Ryo in the mountains & forest with her. In Shenmue II at Shenhua's house there is a scroll hung up which depicts some dangerous mountains, this was never explored and actually retconned when they re-made Shenhua's house in Shenmue III.

View attachment 6127
View attachment 6128
My other reason for saying this is because I felt that the Niaowu section was basically filler - It was all focused on chasing the Red Snakes and we barely learnt anything regarding the overall narrative - At least Bailu Village started by giving us the concept of the verdant Bridge and the events surrounding that were genuinely compelling - I would have loved to expand that and more lore within the Village overall.

Also, I felt that the sub-plot of saving Shenhua's father outstayed its welcome, I was kind of hoping that we saved him before leaving Bailu and that once saving him the information he gave would progress the story/motive to actually go to Niaowu. yet it felt mostly the reason we went there was to extend this rescue quest - Which once we did finally resolve, we got little to no reward.

Three masters in this game reiterated the fact that martial arts cant be mastered overnight or just a few times.

Thats something I always had a bit of a contention with the first two games.
The first game brilliantly shows how much of a gap Ryo has in the beginning against Lan Di. Totally out of his league.
Yet throughout the game, and the second, we are given the notion he can instantly master techniques after just a few practices.
This is in terms of martial arts, what is looked down upon (mastering MA from reading a booklet) as 'McDojo's'. Kinda like 'get rich overnight' schemes.
Everyone knows it takes years of practice, daily to master MA. Part of one of the lessons of Wude.
At least in this game, they tried to incorporate not only the message that you cannot master something overnight, but also that you need to train daily in order to begin the path to.
However, realistically, a game like that would take forever to move its story along and we only have so much time, so having multiple areas in each game makes sense in order to push forward the narrative to reach a conclusion.

Otherwise we'd have like 6 more Shenmue games to reach to Men Cun

 

[HazukiFCBR]

With all due respect isn't this a little wide of the mark? Whatever you think of the game itself you won't find a studio which could pack in what YSNET did.

Now is that what was best for the game in terms of story content? Probably not. I'm viewing Shenmue III as a game that's a proof of concept. The core systems for a Shenmue 4 exist so if given the chance I think you'd find yourself playing a fuller story.

My point is: this game is broke. Once again, i'm not pissed with the lack of revelations or story. I just hate the fact they had Shenmue 2 as a base. just do it with a not so bigger locations and fix its flaws. Its clear to me they misfired. The main part of the series is its story, not the other way around. But, as i said before. I'm moving along.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

Three masters in this game reiterated the fact that martial arts cant be mastered overnight or just a few times.

Thats something I always had a bit of a contention with the first two games.
The first game brilliantly shows how much of a gap Ryo has in the beginning against Lan Di. Totally out of his league.
Yet throughout the game, and the second, we are given the notion he can instantly master techniques after just a few practices.
This is in terms of martial arts, what is looked down upon (mastering MA from reading a booklet) as 'McDojo's'. Kinda like 'get rich overnight' schemes.
Everyone knows it takes years of practice, daily to master MA. Part of one of the lessons of Wude.
At least in this game, they tried to incorporate not only the message that you cannot master something overnight, but also that you need to train daily in order to begin the path to.
However, realistically, a game like that would take forever to move its story along and we only have so much time, so having multiple areas in each game makes sense in order to push forward the narrative to reach a conclusion.

Otherwise we'd have like 6 more Shenmue games to reach to Men Cun

But in Shenmue 1, master the move is to get it evolved. Its animation changes, as soon its gauge gets filled.
Just take Brutal Tiger for example. Its starts letting you off guard, offering your back to the opponent. But the move, once really mastered, it changes. Evolve. Can't remember if Shenmue 2 has this. But although Shenmue 3's mastering moves, is stated, the move it self does not change, or became better. Or even more effective.

 

[Budgiecat]

But in Shenmue 1, master the move is to get it evolved. Its animation changes, as soon its gauge gets filled.
Just take Brutal Tiger for example. Its starts letting you off guard, offering your back to the opponent. But the move, once really mastered, it changes. Evolve. Can't remember if Shenmue 2 has this. But although Shenmue 3's mastering moves, is stated, the move it self does not change, or became better. Or even more effective.

But mastering it took no time at all. That was my contention. MA doesnt work that way. And this game repeatedly mentioned that which I appreciated.
A move does not need to change to improve. That actually makes no sense. Unless they were to have cleverly animated Ryo SUCKING at said move in the beginning, having his animation show him performing said move very sloppily, slow and with little to no coordination, and then the animation gradually improves over time. But that would cost a lot of money lol. And yes it does become more effective as well as Ryo himself becoming more effective overall.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

But mastering it took no time at all. That was my contention. MA doesnt work that way. And this game repeatedly mentioned that which I appreciated.
A move does not need to change to improve. That actually makes no sense. Unless they were to have cleverly animated Ryo SUCKING at said move in the beginning, having his animation show him performing said move very sloppily, slow and with little to no coordination, and then the animation gradually improves over time. But that would cost a lot of money lol. And yes it does become more effective as well as Ryo himself becoming more effective overall.

No time at all? Lol..... you're kidding me? its more than in Shenmue 3. But i have to addres that, as days gone by, your moves automatically improve, IF you keep select "training all moves" at the save selector. Did that a lot on my early days with Shenmue 1. Quite some time it took it.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

I would remove Niaowu All together... I know that's a bold statement but as much as I enjoyed Bailu Village I feel Ryo didn't really grow a much as I expected. I really thought by the time Ryo was done with Bailu that he'd be quite established within the Martial Arts community yet all he did was learn a few skills from a Master in order to beat some thugs.
View attachment 6126
We've seen so many pictures of Ryo in this Green Martial Arts Gear and I really thought this was an indication on how he would change - I know that's putting a lot of faith in pre-production material but I really felt that was going to be the aim. While I must say I felt the gameplay reflected his training very well with frequent sparring and mini-games to grind his health I felt the presentation of his growth within the narrative was what was lacking.

I really wanted to experience living with Shenhua more, there were also concept drawings of Ryo in the mountains & forest with her. In Shenmue II at Shenhua's house there is a scroll hung up which depicts some dangerous mountains, this was never explored and actually retconned when they re-made Shenhua's house in Shenmue III.

View attachment 6127
View attachment 6128
My other reason for saying this is because I felt that the Niaowu section was basically filler - It was all focused on chasing the Red Snakes and we barely learnt anything regarding the overall narrative - At least Bailu Village started by giving us the concept of the verdant Bridge and the events surrounding that were genuinely compelling - I would have loved to expand that and more lore within the Village overall.

Also, I felt that the sub-plot of saving Shenhua's father outstayed its welcome, I was kind of hoping that we saved him before leaving Bailu and that once saving him the information he gave would progress the story/motive to actually go to Niaowu. yet it felt mostly the reason we went there was to extend this rescue quest - Which once we did finally resolve, we got little to no reward.

I had this felling from the begging that some awesome master would give Ryo this suit, just to training with him. As some said on the board. "Could be once owned by Iwao and destined to be Ryo's. What a waste.

 

[Budgiecat]

No time at all? Lol..... you're kidding me? its more than in Shenmue 3. But i have to addres that, as days gone by, your moves automatically improve, IF you keep select "training all moves" at the save selector. Did that a lot on my early days with Shenmue 1. Quite some time it took it.

Well another thing this game emphasizes that the previous games did not: in MA training, you will not get better simply by shadow boxing/drilling alone. Actual contact training through resisting opponent via sparring is how you truly improve. In fact, a lot of styles that do zero sparring get ripped on for that alone. They just going through motion with no application.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

Well another thing this game emphasizes that the previous games did not: in MA training, you will not get better simply by shadow boxing/drilling alone. Actual contact training through resisting opponent via sparring is how you truly improve. In fact, a lot of styles that do zero sparring get ripped on for that alone. They just going through motion with no application.

But how do you explain mastering the one inch punch, would give us endurance? Is it a move? I think you're putting some martial arts preciousness where there isn't none. This is a game after all. But, i do like the training. This is one thing i liked in Shenmue 3. But i would like to see the moves evolve. Even this time shity Browling uppercut. Making it fast, would be the intent of the training.

 

[Budgiecat]

I had this felling from the begging that some awesome master would give Ryo this suit, just to training with him. As some said on the board. "Could be once owned by Iwao and destined to be Ryo's. What a waste.

I dont even like that outfit much. It seems too perfect; non humble in a way. Like something someone with a lot of money back then would wear lol
I much would have rather preferred something more in the lines of what Jackie Chan wore in Snake in the Eagle's Shadow (white kung fu t-shirt, black sash, grey kung fu pants)

or Bruce Lee's first outfit in the Big Boss



just more simpler less extravagent looking training gear

 

[Budgiecat]

But how do you explain mastering the one inch punch, would give us endurance? Is it a move? I think you're putting some martial arts preciousness where there isn't none. This is a game after all. But, i do like the training. This is one thing i liked in Shenmue 3. But i would like to see the moves evolve. Even this time shity Browling uppercut. Making it fast, would be the intent of the training.

Why not? I mean you're hitting a heavy object over and over. And yes it is a move.
Think about sparring a heavy bag continuously. Would that not improve your endurance and stamina and conditioning?
Have you ever trained?

Brawling Uppercut isn't meant to be taken seriously btw lol

I would like actual WC Mook Jong drills (Sleeping Dogs had it) as well as Chi Sao and some Xingyi two man drills. Maybe even some Eagle Claw ones. Those are dope.

You say its just a game, but I was rather surprise(d they actually put in Baguazhang circle walking. I remember starting up the game and seeing the horse stance and one inch punch, and besides me lamenting on why you cant do actual WC hand drills on the Mook Jong, I also had thought 'man it would be cool if they put in some Baguazhang footwork drills (since Xiaoyu from Tekken has that move (called Hypnosis) and it was also in Taito's Fighter's Impact, and then lo and behold they actually did later on and I was like holy shit they actually went there. It was a nice surprise. But they can def do better.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

Why not? I mean you're hitting a heavy object over and over. And yes it is a move.
Think about sparring a heavy bag continuously. Would that not improve your endurance and stamina and conditioning?
Have you ever trained?

Brawling Uppercut isn't meant to be taken seriously btw lol

I would like actual WC Mook Jong drills (Sleeping Dogs had it) as well as Chi Sao and some Xingyi two man drills. Maybe even some Eagle Claw ones. Those are dope.

You say its just a game, but I was rather surprise(d they actually put in Baguazhang circle walking. I remember starting up the game and seeing the horse stance and one inch punch, and besides me lamenting on why you cant do actual WC hand drills on the Mook Jong, I also had thought 'man it would be cool if they put in some Baguazhang footwork drills (since Xiaoyu from Tekken has that move (called Hypnosis) and it was also in Taito's Fighter's Impact, and then lo and behold they actually did later on and I was like holy shit they actually went there. It was a nice surprise. But they can def do better.

Dude, there were a lot they could have done, even with a low budget. The outfits you said. Those drills. I would love to see a splatter one, as i said before. So much room to make this game epic.
The one inch punch, is a move. A move we don't use in the game. Waste.
By the way, a kinda Sleeping Dogs combat system was what i expected to see in S3. For me, Shenmue's vf engine was the begining of the free flow of the Arkham series and Sleepings Dogs as well. But without the parry/dogde buttons, would feel bad as hell, as S3 combat system does to me.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

Why not? I mean you're hitting a heavy object over and over. And yes it is a move.
Think about sparring a heavy bag continuously. Would that not improve your endurance and stamina and conditioning?
Have you ever trained?

Brawling Uppercut isn't meant to be taken seriously btw lol

I would like actual WC Mook Jong drills (Sleeping Dogs had it) as well as Chi Sao and some Xingyi two man drills. Maybe even some Eagle Claw ones. Those are dope.

You say its just a game, but I was rather surprise(d they actually put in Baguazhang circle walking. I remember starting up the game and seeing the horse stance and one inch punch, and besides me lamenting on why you cant do actual WC hand drills on the Mook Jong, I also had thought 'man it would be cool if they put in some Baguazhang footwork drills (since Xiaoyu from Tekken has that move (called Hypnosis) and it was also in Taito's Fighter's Impact, and then lo and behold they actually did later on and I was like holy shit they actually went there. It was a nice surprise. But they can def do better.

Probably, 90% of the Shenmue fans (me included), are Bruce Lee fans...lol

 

[Budgiecat]

For me, Shenmue's vf engine was the begining of the free flow of the Arkham series and Sleepings Dogs as well.

I would sooner attribute that to Rent-A-Hero #1's Spikeout Engine for that since its more beat em up oriented.

 

[icuk]

There's some great suggestions in this thread, this is my first post so please be gentle.

I completed the game yesterday after 50 or so hours and overall I've enjoyed the experience although it was very slow paced in the beginning. I think it would be difficult for someone new to the series to persevere with the game though.

The ending flew by too quickly when it could have been a bit more exciting. The face off with Lan-Di and it's conclusion was acceptable for me, but I was hoping there was going to be a plot twist. Niao Sun and the other bosses including Chai were under utilised. Probably due to budget and time constraints.

So I've now restarted the game and will continue to enjoy the Shenmue experience at a leisurely pace, especially now I don't have that much grinding to do. With all it's faults, at it's heart this continues the Shenmue experience I fell in love with all those years ago.

This game does a lot of things well, but some things clearly need improving. Aside from repeating other peoples suggestions I'll just a dd a couple of my main irks.

The skipping of dialogue really needs sorting out. Why do I have to listen to the same thing over an over when a new day starts or I'm playing through the game again?

The thing that sticks out for me is the fighting system. On the face of it, it's not that bad and is mostly an enjoyable experience. I can see a lot of time went into creating the new system and you feel like you are progressing when leveling up and acquiring new moves. It does show great potential, I'm not gonna mention shinbone smash though.

But the main issue for me is when Ryo is fighting more than 2 people, at times the game is on the verge of being broken. I don't like it when the game automatically changes focus from a downed opponent to another guy, sometimes the focus goes to a guy who is behind me or it chooses the guy furthest away, it really becomes annoying after a while especially when you are fighting the top tier guys in the Rose Garden.

Either give me full freedom to focus on a specific opponent until I change it (even if he is on the floor) or have the game do everything automatically depending on the direction the player is facing.

The game becomes more complicated than it needs to be when the lock-on function swaps and changes at specific times without any input from the player. I hope the game gets an update/patch to address that.

Another thing is that I really miss the old Sega arcade games, back in 2000 playing a classic Sega Arcade game within Shenmue was a revelation. It felt so surreal finishing a game of Hang-On then going back into the Shenmue world. I know it's a complicated situation with Sega, but surely something could be worked out?

And finally although I'm usually against DLC, in Shenmue 3's case it's really needed imo. I'll be buying the future DLC if it adds more functionality/missions to the main game.

If DLC allows Ys Net to fill in some of void/ommisions of the main story or even add side quests/fighting tournaments/continuation of the main game then I'll put my money where my mouth is again. Having the story continue in episodic DLC installments would certainly work for me.

Overall I think Ys Net has done a great job considering the budget. It's a shame regarding the controversies that happened during the games development cycle but we can't change that nor do we know the full story. The communication throughout the Kickstarter could have been better and Epic Games Store + Deep Silver did add value to the final game in the finish, but at the annoyance of many people who backed the game.

So I'm now sitting here with just the PC digital version that I can't play if I have no internet connection. My backer code doesn't work, I have no physical copy, no in game bonues, no physcial music CD, no signed illustration, no toy capsule, no Shenmue t-shirt, no printed art book....and here I am saying that I'd pay for DLC.

Man, what a ride it's been over the past 4 years!

 

[Budgiecat]

Dude, there were a lot they could have done, even with a low budget. The outfits you said. Those drills. I would love to see a splatter one, as i said before. So much room to make this game epic.
The one inch punch, is a move. A move we don't use in the game. Waste.
By the way, a kinda Sleeping Dogs combat system was what i expected to see in S3. For me, Shenmue's vf engine was the begining of the free flow of the Arkham series and Sleepings Dogs as well. But without the parry/dogde buttons, would feel bad as hell, as S3 combat system does to me.

We could sit here all day coming up with a million things this game could have included.

But then I could do that with Sleeping Dogs, Yakuza, Batman, hell, a myriad of games.

These things also take time and there's release deadlines. Since we are of a collective mind of thousands of fans, we can come up with more ideas as a group than a dev team can.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

We could sit here all day coming up with a million things this game could have included.

But then I could do that with Sleeping Dogs, Yakuza, Batman, hell, a myriad of games.

These things also take time and there's release deadlines. Since we are of a collective mind of thousands of fans, we can come up with more ideas as a group than a dev team can.

That's why i can't say how much of a fan creative input we had by the dev team. But either way, it's quite unlikely Yu Suzuki allowing this to happen. Really don't know if this is the case.