IGN Discusses why Shenmue 3’s ending is a big disappointment

Oh, I just love bread crumbs.
I can nibble on them all day long and by the end it feels like I haven't even eaten anything at all.

I don’t know what to tell you but so far that’s what this whole series has been. And until you find someone who witnessed what actually happened or has reliable info, it’s probably all your gonna get in the mean time since every source is unreliable as shit.

I mean technically Master Chen told us something relatively similar so Chen must be face palming as well. Hell, wasn’t it Yuanda Zhu who told Chen that when the mirrors met the Chi You would resurrect on earth? Yet in II he tells us it’s the key to the Treasure of the Qing Dynasty....it’s almost like every scrap of info we’ve gotten is unreliable bread crumbs.

That’s what this entire series has been...just bread crumbs. I get the disappointment if you thought you were gonna get full fledged answers though. But I doubt that’s gonna happen until either IV or Meng Cun.
 
He wasn't wrong.


Also, The reviewer, Kyle, has actually played through the first two Shenmues and he actually enjoyed them(I watched his Super Replay of the first two religiously when he was with game informer) so I don't think hes shitting on the game because it's cool to do so.
 
Oh, I just love bread crumbs.
I can nibble on them all day long and by the end it feels like I haven't even eaten anything at all.


It sounds like you wanted a visual novel.

Most of Shenmue's main movement in the plot will most likely happen in Mencun.
That is where Yu Suzuki first met the Bajiquan grandmaster Wu LianZhi when he visited there to get research when making Virtua Fighter. After all, originally this was supposed to be a VF rpg starring Akira.
 
He wasn't wrong.


Also, The reviewer, Kyle, has actually played through the first two Shenmues and he actually enjoyed them(I watched his Super Replay of the first two religiously when he was with game informer) so I don't think hes shitting on the game because it's cool to do so.


He is if he's inviting a spoiler right in the article title. So for anyone that still hasn't finished the game, or for people who havent started it, from the topic title alone, without even reading the article, they now have it in their head that the ending is disappointing. Unnecessary. Click bait journalism. There's no point in even making this article this soon as the game has been released after he's already made a review. Its irresponsible click bait journalism. Plus, he failed to properly research the topic. If he was a former Shenmue fan, then he'd have known for years that this was never intended to be the last game. There are major locations the story has to reach first in order for that to happen.
 
A lot of people in this thread mentioning that the answers will come in Meng Cun. What answers exactly? The only plot revelation that is likely to happen there is the fate of Sunming Zhao. Not a small plot twist, but what about the mirrors, what about the Chi You Men, Iwao, Shenhua, the Shenmue tree, the cave reliefs etc. That all can't be back loaded to Meng Cun or it would be bad writing. Further, it's a straw man to say that those that wished for more story in this game wanted all the answers. I don't think anyone here reasonably expected Shenmue 3 to end the story or answer all the questions. But to leave Bailu without building upon so many of the mysteries is sure to leave many wanting.

While Shenmue 1 and 2 didn't give us a lot to go on they did give more than Shenmue 3 did. Shenmue 1 and 2 were only the first few chapters of the story, is it unreasonable to not expect that Shenmue 3 would end with so many plot threads in the air, some of which are likely never to be revisited again?
 
A lot of people in this thread mentioning that the answers will come in Meng Cun. What answers exactly? The only plot revelation that is likely to happen there is the fate of Sunming Zhao. Not a small plot twist, but what about the mirrors, what about the Chi You Men, Iwao, Shenhua, the Shenmue tree, the cave reliefs etc. That all can't be back loaded to Meng Cun or it would be bad writing. Further, it's a straw man to say that those that wished for more story in this game wanted all the answers. I don't think anyone here reasonably expected Shenmue 3 to end the story or answer all the questions. But to leave Bailu without building upon so many of the mysteries is sure to leave many wanting.


IGN reviewer Kyle Hilliard did

Also who said anything about 'backloaded'? There's still several areas Ryo has to visit before reaching Meng Cun.

I gather the reason Meng Cun is so important to Suzuki is because that is where he met Bajiquan Grandmaster WuLian Zhi who helped him design the movement of Akira Yuki for Virtua Fighter, which also later gave Yu the inspiration to make Shenmue. So it holds a symbolic importance to him which he incorporated into his story. Yu, like Iwao, traveled from afar to learn about Chinese culture and befriended that Bajiquan grandmaster. And that grandmaster traveled to Japan later on to help him even though he said his family members advised against it because "the Japanese are not good people". There's a lot of parallels to be drawn there.
 
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He is if he's inviting a spoiler right in the article title. So for anyone that still hasn't finished the game, or for people who havent started it, from the topic title alone, without even reading the article, they now have it in their head that the ending is disappointing. Unnecessary. Click bait journalism. There's no point in even making this article this soon as the game has been released after he's already made a review. Its irresponsible click bait journalism. Plus, he failed to properly research the topic. If he was a former Shenmue fan, then he'd have known for years that this was never intended to be the last game. There are major locations the story has to reach first in order for that to happen.

Actually there is an interview with Yu in the early 2000's... right around the time when Shenmue 2X was released... where he says that the Shenmue saga would span just 3 installments.

At the time, I'm sure he was ready to beg Sega to do just one more.

Now that control of Shenmue is with the fans, Yu is more happy to fulfill is original vision of 5-6 games.
 
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That’s what this entire series has been...just bread crumbs.
But it hasn't been and everyone criticizing my comment has seemed to forget that.
Each Shenmue game moved the plot forward by [introducing new plot threads] and [providing fresh information].
☑ Shenmue 1 - [introduced] Lan Di, the mirrors, Chi You Men [provided info on] Chi You Men's goal
☑Shenmue 2 - [introduced] Shenhua (prophecy), Guilin [provided info on] Mirrors as map&key, Guilin as home of mirrors, Iwao&Sunming's friendship, Lan Di's name&relation to Sunming.
THESE ARE NOT BREADCRUMBS

This is breadcumbs..
❌Shenmue 3 - [introduced] Niao Sun(???) [provided info on] Lan Di raised by Chi You Men, mirrors represent royalty(???), Sunming entrusted to protect mirrors(???)
(???) Niao Sun has no tangible effect on plot, Yuanda Zhu already told us that mirrors related to Qing Dynasty and that Sunming had both mirrors. So 2 of those points are redundant while 1 could easily be removed.
 
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The part saying "the mirrors have little to do with the conflict between Ryo and Lan Di" is complete bullshit, but other than that, the article is spot-on. Well done, Kyle!

I hope that when making S4 Yu will read articles like that and take them to heart.
 
Actually there is an interview with Yu in the early 2000's... right around the time when Shenmue 2X was released... where he says that the Shenmue saga would span just 3 installments.

At the time, I'm sure he was ready to beg Sega to do just one more.

Now that control of Shenmue is with the fans, Yu is more happy to fulfill is original vision of 5-6 games.


In 2010, Yu mentioned Shenmue 3 would just be primarily focused on Ryo and Shenhua's internal character growth through their conversations. How in the hell would that = end of the series? Shenmue 1 = chapter 1. chapter 2 was the boat trip in manga form. Shenmue 2 was chapter 3, 4 and 5. So you expected Shenmue 3 to be chapters 6 through 11? Five chapters even though he said it would primarily focus on Ryo and Shenhua's relationship; aka 'inward' and not an 'outward' story experience?
He's been saying Shenmue story had 11 chapters for years. Where have you been?
 
The part saying "the mirrors have little to do with the conflict between Ryo and Lan Di" is complete bullshit, but other than that, the article is spot-on. Well done, Kyle!

I hope that when making S4 Yu will read articles like that and take them to heart.


How was it well done? Kyle didn't know shit. He didn't even research the history of the series to know this was never intended to end in the third game. It was click bait. He's an idiot.
 
In 2010, Yu mentioned Shenmue 3 would just be primarily focused on Ryo and Shenhua's internal character growth through their conversations. How in the hell would that = end of the series? Shenmue 1 = chapter 1. chapter 2 was the boat trip in manga form. Shenmue 2 was chapter 3, 4 and 5. So you expected Shenmue 3 to be chapters 6 through 11? Five chapters even though he said it would primarily focus on Ryo and Shenhua's relationship; aka 'inward' and not an 'outward' story experience?
He's been saying Shenmue story had 11 chapters for years. Where have you been?

I'm taking about way back around 2002.. shortly after the demise of the Dreamcast and the release of Shenmue 2X in NA.

Yu did an interview... maybe on G4 IIRC... where he said that in the end the series would span 3 installments.
 
I'm taking about way back around 2002.. shortly after the demise of the Dreamcast and the release of Shenmue 2X in NA.

Yu did an interview... maybe on G4 IIRC... where he said that in the end the series would span 3 installments.


Well besides the fact you need to back that with a source, thats still kinda hard to believe a 6th gen game of Shenmue's calibur would fit six chapters in it. (6-11)
The game's story was always known to be 11 chapters; originally condensed from 16 when it was Project Berkeley.

Besides, your original post made it seem like he just changed this idea to "5 to 6 games" once he got Shenmue III funded.
This was never the case. Like I said, in 2010 he spoke about the 11 chapters and also that Shenmue 3 would focus on the relationship building of Ryo and Shenhua. That means he had no intention in 2010 to end the series in the third installment. This is 5 years before it was announced as a kickstarted at E3 2015.
There are 4 chapters left now. I see that either as broken up into 2 games with 2 chapters each (S4 & S5) or Baishu being dropped and 9,10 & 11 being Shenmue IV.
 
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Well besides the fact you need to back that with a source, thats still kinda hard to believe a 6th gen game of Shenmue's calibur would fit six chapters in it. (6-11)
The game's story was always known to be 11 chapters; originally condensed from 16 when it was Project Berkeley.
I don't "need" to back it up with a source... I'm stating something true which, while you have a hard time believing it, doesn't change the fact that it's true.

I will try to find the source as a courtesy.

Again, I'm not talking about chapters but GAMES.

Also if you want to talk about chapters, Yu stated 16 chapters well after the Project Berkeley days. It was in more recent years that he stated 11 chapters.
 
I don't "need" to back it up with a source... I'm stating something true which, while you have a hard time believing it, doesn't change the fact that it's true.

I will try to find the source as a courtesy.

Again, I'm not talking about chapters but GAMES.

Also if you want to talk about chapters, Yu stated 16 chapters well after the Project Berkeley days. It was in more recent years that he stated 11 chapters.

"I don't "need" to back it up with a source"

No....I'm pretty sure you do. Thats not how this works. You don't get to make claims and say "I'm stating something true" without evidence. Burden of proof lies with you.

"There are a total of 11 chapters that make up the whole story. Over the past 14 years I originally planned for there to 4 or five games to the series. If at all possible, I would still like to realize the full story of 11 chapters." - Yu Suzuki 2015 Reddit




There's nothing "recent" about 'nearly 10 years ago' Thats basically a decade dude.
Look at this site's own archives.

I mean sure, if you wanna chop up an entire story and compress everything into one last game then yeah whatever it'd be possible but it sure as hell wouldnt be true to Shenmue anymore since the chapters are location specific. You'd be talking about omitting whole major locations; no way 4 major locations would fit correctly in a single Shenmue game.
As explained here:



"In the past, there were reports about the Shenmue saga spanning up to 16 chapters, but during a Q&A session at the Shenmue City press conference Suzuki said that the figure is actually 11.

Suzuki explained how these chapters are converted into game form. The scenarios are initially novelized, a process that Suzuki feels allows for a deeper depiction of the story and emotional developments. The game's script is created from the novelization.

It would be possible to finish the entire story in one game by just using highlights from the remaining chapters, Suzuki told Famitsu.com. He'd have to make decisions about such areas if given the opportunity to continue with the series
. "


He never said he'd do it. He said theoretically it could be done if he were to basically chop up the entire remaining chapters. But this was said years ago, and years ago he said his intention was to complete all 11 chapters in game form

"Suzuki said that he wants to make a third entry in the Shenmue series. "I want to make 3 with the same volume as in the past," said Suzuki. "There have actually been a lot of requests from fans for 3 as well. There were even petitions signed by by tens of thousands of people."

The issue appears to be that making a proper Shenmue game will take quite the investment. "Shenmue has the image of grand scale," said Suzuki. "But making something of grand scale requires appropriate preparation.
"
 
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There's nothing "recent" about 'nearly 10 years ago' Thats basically a decade dude.
Look at this site's own archives.

I mean sure, if you wanna chop up an entire story and compress everything into one last game then yeah whatever it'd be possible but it sure as hell wouldnt be true to Shenmue anymore since the chapters are location specific. You'd be talking about omitting whole major locations; no way 4 major locations would fit correctly in a single Shenmue game.

When Shenmue first came out in the early 2000's the overall story was presented as 16 chapters.

Much MORE recently than that, Yu clarified that it was really 11 chapters and not 16.

Also check the 1 min mark on this video about the saga spanning 3 installments.. prepare for your mind to be blown.

 
When Shenmue first came out in the early 2000's the overall story was presented as 16 chapters.

Much MORE recently than that, Yu clarified that it was really 11 chapters and not 16.


"In the past, there were reports about the Shenmue saga spanning up to 16 chapters, but during a Q&A session at the Shenmue City press conference Suzuki said that the figure is actually 11" - 2010

"Over the past 14 years I originally planned for there to 4 or five games to the series," Suzuki said. "If at all possible, I would still like to realize the full story of 11 chapters." - Yu Suzuki, 2015



2015 - 14 = 2001.
Since 2001, Yu Suzuki has been saying it was 11 chapters.
 
"In the past, there were reports about the Shenmue saga spanning up to 16 chapters, but during a Q&A session at the Shenmue City press conference Suzuki said that the figure is actually 11" - 2010

"Over the past 14 years I originally planned for there to 4 or five games to the series," Suzuki said. "If at all possible, I would still like to realize the full story of 11 chapters." - Yu Suzuki, 2015



2015 - 14 = 2001.
Since 2001, Yu Suzuki has been saying it was 11 chapters.

LOL well I see your math... whatever point you're trying to make there?

It is untrue to state that Yu has been saying that the story is 11 chapters since 2001 and to state this is a shocking evidence free claim.

Yu Suzuki didn't say that story was 11 chapters until 2010... over a decade after the release of S1 and just 5 years before the kick starter.
 
The game barely has a story, and it's poorly developed.
85% percent of the game is "looking for thugs" and the thugs are as uninteresting as they sound (hell, the first guy just describes himself as a random thug), and they do it twice with the same story beats.
They were just props to make Ryo train, but the training was also undercooked. Ryo's training doesn't develop him as a character (compare it with her training with Xiuying about learning the wude, clearing his mind and calming himself). Sun was a cool character, but Ryo catches the chickens well enough the first time, and continues to do so (you could argue that he learned to move in another way), but that's not character development and it's not seen through gameplay either. The fisherman is even worse "ok buy this scroll, that is basically the same move you learned before", not even a hint of actual character development there.
The plot only advances in a rushed ending with an exposition dump.
There's basically 0 character development except for the relationship between Ryo and Shenhua, and it's mostly about background information, I wouldn't even say there's much characterization or character driven narrative development.
It makes it even worse that the game throws all these unnecesary chejov guns everywhere, that's just bad writing.
Both times I was prompted to leave Bailu and Niaowu I was shocked, what was the point of having the master of both Iwao and Zhao ? Why does Yuan knows more about Lan Di than the guy who trained them ? What was the point of the monk telling you "yeah someone from japan left this here" ? When did fat guy and broom girl became such friends that are willing to risk their lives for Ryo ? The scroll is meant to be treated as this sort of ancient map, but it's just full of redundant information, treasure, mountain where Yuan told you to go and Niaowu where the thug told you to go. What was so important in Niaowu that was on the scroll ? Why was Niao Sun in the boat with Ryo ? Was she in Bailu ? Did she know about Ryo ? What was the purpose of Shenhua using her "weird magic" to then be a damsel in distress later on ? Was it really worth to amp up the tension kidnapping Shenhua when they already had kidnapped Yuan even if it deters from her development a few hours before ? Was it worth it to be chasing thugs the whole game only to have the story going because Niao Sun was tired and kidnapped Shenhua and told him where to go ?

Why not use the "thugs" and make them a proxy for info about the Chiyoumen or Niao Sun ? The same with Iwao's master about info about Iwao, the same with Yuan and the mirrors (dude you got the creator of them and don't even call out the weird "map" the mirrors made ?).
They just dropped the ball hard in the story and narrative, it's sad because all the elements were there, instead we focus the whole game chasing some random nobodies that no one cares about.
 
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