IGN: Yu Suzuki Talks Shenmue 4, Air Twister, and 40 Years of Game Development

[Reprise]

I think you're both being quite harsh.
Shenmue 3 didn't have the luxury of a AAA budget like the ones it is being compared to (GTA, for instants).
I found Niaowu a lot of fun with its mini-games, side quests, training areas and overall atmosphere.
I get that it wasn't perfect, but again, Yu didn't have the courtesy of a AAA budget anymore.

That wasn't really my point though. It felt like Niaowu was much larger than it really had any need to be and it was just large for the sake of being large. It didn't really serve any kind of purpose and if budget was an issue, they could have condensed the area quite easily without losing much of value in my opinion.

At this point it feels like people are hating just for the sake of it. Shenmue 3's faults have been discussed to death. If you didn't like it, move on. Find something that does make you happy instead. Just a thought.

Name something Shenmue related that hasn't been discussed to death. Maybe we should just close off any kind of discussion that relates to the first three games, because it has been done to death? It's a franchise that spans more than two decades and consists of only three games and an anime, what else are we going to discuss? It feels like people here are sometimes incredibly defensive and touchy about Shenmue 3 being discussed. I don't hate or even dislike Shenmue 3, but I do find the Niaowu area to be overly large when compared to what there actually is to see and do there and how much story happens within that portion of the game.

These kind of criticisms really shouldn't be considered controversial.

 

[Sonoshee]

There is nothing wrong with discussing Shenmue 3's faults. And it's nothing to do with being defensive or controversial. But it seems for certain members, that's all they want to do - spread negativity. And it's never the odd comment, it's always a bunch of comments, so yet again another thread seems to be descending into what Shenmue 3 "didn't get right", even in the Shenmue 4 forum. These members rarely get involved in other threads and they usually only pop up when there's a chance to smear S3 some more.

Regarding Niaowu, well, isn't that like saying Kowloon didn't serve any kind of purpose other than being large for the sake of it? Shops were just the same, NPC's were just the same. But these same criticisms aren't levelled at S2. Obviously Niaowu being that large was something Yu wanted. Maybe more was supposed to happen and it was built to accommodate that, but then they had to compensate somewhere else and Niaowu took a hit. Quite honestly, when I first got off the boat, the thrill of being able to explore a big open city again in Shenmue was overwhelming and exciting.

 

[iknifaugood]

It's impossible to end 60% of the story with one game. At least not without heavy cutting. How can that be good?

It will have to be different but that doesn't mean "bad" per se; S3 covered a very small amount of story over a very long play time and that wasn't good. What it will definitely be is expensive lol.

They just need minimum 5 games if not six.

Considering that Suzuki is talking about 0, I would say that getting twice as many games as we currently have is... unlikely.

Let's see if they can deliver 4, then everything will be possible.

We said that about 3.

At this point it feels like people are hating just because they can.

I get that a lot of people around here like Shenmue 3. I don't and while my reasons for disliking it may not necessarily be the same reasons that it wasn't well received, the fact of the matter is that it was not well received so any future Shenmue games are going to be a departure in one way or another from S3. So talking about the ways that S3 is good is counter productive to talking about the ways things will need to be different in order to continue the series (considering seemingly no one can agree on what to change apart from giving Suzuki a bigger budget, which isn't going to happen).

It felt like Niaowu was much larger than it really had any need to be and it was just large for the sake of being large. It didn't really serve any kind of purpose and if budget was an issue, they could have condensed the area quite easily without losing much of value in my opinion.

In all likelihood, Niaowu was made larger to compensate for the fact that there wasn't much to do.

It feels like people here are sometimes incredibly defensive and touchy about Shenmue 3 being discussed.

I don't understand the touchiness around this. It's perfectly clear that S3's failure is the reason that Suzuki is not only not talking about S4, he's talking about a prequel taking place in Dobuita! Discussing why this is the case and what Shenmue should look like moving forward in a realistic way should be the top priority of anyone who wants to see the series continue, regardless of what you thought of S3.

 

[Sonoshee]

I get that a lot of people around here like Shenmue 3. I don't and while my reasons for disliking it may not necessarily be the same reasons that it wasn't well received, the fact of the matter is that it was not well received so any future Shenmue games are going to be a departure in one way or another from S3. So talking about the ways that S3 is good is counter productive to talking about the ways things will need to be different in order to continue the series (considering seemingly no one can agree on what to change apart from giving Suzuki a bigger budget, which isn't going to happen).

Yu seems to know what he needs to do different for S4. He's even looking into different ways of how to approach it in this new interview.

Blaming S3 for us not having a S4 yet isn't really fair. If that was the case, then should we have blamed S2 for not getting S3 sooner? Because lets be honest, the sales for that game weren't brilliant either. Sega didn't jump at it, so I'd ask: why would a publisher jump at S4? Remember, Deep Silver most likely only got involved because they smelled money after the Kickstarter and its success.

And you can't really blame S3 for being "not well received" because its review scores and even Metacritic were pretty good.

For S4, Yu needs to pitch it right to potential investors. It is not S3's fault that we haven't seen a S4 yet.

 

[iknifaugood]

Blaming S3 for not us having a S4 yet isn't really fair. If that was the case, then what was S3's excuse after S2? Should we have blamed S2, because lets be honest, the sales for that game weren't brilliant either.

It's totally fair because of the differences between the 2 games. S1 and 2 released on systems with low user bases, Sega technically made their first money for my purchase of Shenmue 2 with the HD collection (I had to import it on DC and I didn't own an Xbox) and Shenmue 2 is one of my favorite games ever! If Shenmue 2 released on every major platform and got media attention from all the biggest publications when it launched, then you'd have a fair comparison but we all know the tragedy of S1 and 2.

What I think happened with Shenmue is that it became something different when Sega needed it to sell Dreamcasts. When they split S1 and 2 into 2 games, S1 was expanded in a lot of ways including emphasizing simulations and NPCs and forklift driving and other stuff that we have no reason to believe would be "core" parts of the series as it continued toward chapter 11. The original VFRPG was supposed to be one game that took place all over China with each chapter being centered around a different city/region, so the notion that each area should be big enough to sustain its own game is where part of the problem lies. Shenmue is a classic case of missing the forest for the trees, beautiful though those trees may be.

 

[ahmed_alency7]

I’m reading through all these comments i just wanna say i hope shenmue 4 isn’t rushed man or contains little story, and i hope we don’t get a shenmue 0 before 4 and potentially 5

 

[Seaman]

Curious this Yu-san new semi-open position comes so close to the recent polemic leak.

And Esra Krabbe is my father

 

[9dragons]

I’m reading through all these comments i just wanna say i hope shenmue 4 isn’t rushed man or contains little story, and i hope we don’t get a shenmue 0 before 4 and potentially 5

Yes, I hope so too. In order to make a good game the devs should get all the time they need.

As mentioned in my previous post already not a fan of Shenmue Zero because it is pointless as long there are still lots of missing chapters that have to be told in Shenmue 4 and beyond.

 

[Joka]

Always nice to see new Shenmue and Yu coverage in media.

Also nice to see that Yu is still very open (even keen?) to keep making Shenmue games, he could be forgiven for just drawing a line under it now let's be real.

On S4 - when I read the bit about him saying it would need to cater more to a new audience I was concerned as in no way should new gamers be the focus for a 4th game in any game series. However, when he explained about more organically bringing them up to speed within the game, rather than watching a breakdown before then that I kinda get artistically (but I still don't get why that would be any focus at all tbh).
As mentioned earlier though the core take away is that Yu is still open to making S4 and continuing the series :)

On S0 - I'm not sure if it's something to do with the translation here but he makes a reference to not being able to go into detail on S0, which doesn't happen whilst discussing S4, which on one hand makes it sounds like it's actively being progressed and is in a more advanced stage than S4.... it could also be him just politely trying to steer the convo back on Air Twister, which is the reason he's doing the interview. I think he did something similar during an earlier Air Twister interview right?
I honestly hope it's the latter as, a bit like the above point, I don't think S0, and attracting new gamers to the series, should be the focus or is the best way to invest time and money etc. in the series.

S0 sounds like a nice idea, but only after the original story is concluded. Those of us fans who are more invested in the characters/story side of the series really want to find out Iwao's past etc., but through Ryo's eyes right? We are him after all.
Don't get me wrong, if they made S0 instead of S4 then it'd be a day 1 purchase still, but it would be with a fair bit of resentment lol. And as pointed out earlier in the thread, S0 makes S4 less likely, even if it was a big hit as no way would they then skip straight back to S4 dev, it'd move to full current gen remakes of S1/2 and then 3 and by then what year would we be in and what would the industry even be like?!

So, overall an interesting interview, and I still remain optimistic that S4 will become a reality.

 

[renthusiast]

I think if he ever made this "shenmue 0", it wouldn't be about ryo...maybe it would be something similar to shenmue city i.e about iwao's students or something, cause what else is there to be added in the game?? he could definitely make it about iwao, but as everyone else said it would contain "heavy spoilers" from the main story...unless he's planning to make an s0 followed by a final s4 game (so the timeline would be like s0,1,2,3,4 instead of s1,2,3,4,5).

 

[ahmed_alency7]

I think if he ever made this "shenmue 0", it wouldn't be about ryo...maybe it would be something similar to shenmue city i.e about iwao's students or something, cause what else is there to be added in the game?? he could definitely make it about iwao, but as everyone else said it would contain "heavy spoilers" from the main story...unless he's planning to make an s0 followed by a final s4 game (so the timeline would be like s0,1,2,3,4 instead of s1,2,3,4,5).

Do you personally think the story would end in IV or V?

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

I really don't like the idea of Shenmue 0, for a bunch of reasons (with one caveat that I'll mention at the bottom)

Realistically, Yu Suzuki probably doesn't have too many games in him before he's ready to retire, and Shenmue 0 would be an opportunity cost that would both take time away from a sequel and take time away from any other non-Shenmue project that Yu Suzuki would want to make. I'd rather he feel unchained from the series than try to find some sort of middleground project. I just don't see how something like Shenmue 0 would move the series forward, and it would remind fans that they got this instead of Shenmue IV.

The one caveat where I'll be ok with it is if a Shenmue 0 let's Yu Suzuki experiment with what a reimagined smaller scale/lower budget "Shenmue" game would look like. Then maybe he can use that framework for a cheaper Shenmue IV and V (kind of what @iknifaugood mentioned a few pages ago)

 

[Valascaziel]

Shenmue 0? Interesting concept, but I'm more keen on seeing Ryo's journey come to a conclusion.

There's potential there, but I haven't seen a real "0" style game since Resident Evil, which was fairly goof.

Shenmue IV is where it's at and with the right development and refinement, it could end up being better than 3 so long as they make improvements.

Look at what Nacon recently did on a AA budget with RoboCop: Rogue City. Runs on UE5, looks great and plays, apparently, very very well. Lots of love to the source material as well, including Peter Wellers return as Robo.

It's a marked improvement over their last game(Terminator) which was a cult classic also.

 

[Revan]

Prequels are a very popular and successful way to do storytelling. Some origin stories even do better than mainline entries and also have the benefit of being disguised as 'reboots' which help draw in more people. So, I think a Shenmue 0 could work if done right.

Here's a ramble about how I think they could do it.

By far, the biggest complaint levelled at Shenmue 3 was its lack of story resolution after 20 years. I know, even though the series was never stated to finish at Shenmue 3, and YS Net repeatedly clarified this, the problem was that the wider masses (the ones YS Net is now trying to appeal to) felt they were owed closure after the exceptional wait for Shenmue 3. If Shenmue 4 now ends with another "Lan Di is in another castle, I hope we can fund Shenmue 5!" I don't see this going down well again.

Perhaps Shenmue 4 could skip over some parts to get the Ryo vs. Lan Di storyline finished. For instance, we would get some scenes of exposition/flashback told by one of the characters (like the Zhu Yuanda scene at the end of Kowloon in Shenmue 2) stating what transpired in Mengcun between Iwao and Sunming. However, Shenmue 4 would mainly focus on the Ryo vs. Chi You Men conflict + The Mirrors + Shenhua's past. Ryo's quest would end with 70% of the story adapted. The wider masses would be appeased seeing it almost as 'making up for Shenmue 3' which would regain trust, while the publisher could focus their marketing on "THE SAGA ENDS" to help drive hype and sales.

Then, Shenmue 0 could be your 'Shenmue 5'. Disguised as a soft reboot (ala Yakuza 0), it would go back in time and focus on Iwao's adventures in China. This origin story would adapt the remaining 30% of the Project Berkley ideas, and explore the Mengcun chapter more in-depth while repurposing cut material for Iwao, such as Baisha, Shanghai etc. Perhaps Tentei could also be the main villain of Iwao's quest instead of a new random-ass character. As said by @renthusiast, the series would then be S0, S1, S2, S3, and S4 - five games with all of Yu's ideas, but just reworked slightly.

Controversial ramblings, I know. But just a thought.

 

[iknifaugood]

Shenmue 4 would mainly focus on the Ryo vs. Chi You Men conflict + The Mirrors + Shenhua's past. Ryo's quest would end with 70% of the story adapted.

I agree with all of your points, particularly the "the saga ends" marketing pitch. I just always have to point out that, according to Suzuki, Shenmue 1-3 covers 40% of the story so in order to get to 70%, you're talking about a game that's as big as nearly all 3 existing games.

 

[renthusiast]

Do you personally think the story would end in IV or V?

not sure if this related to the topic, but V i guess. though with how little s3 progressed the story, i dont even think that 5 games would be enough

 

[ahmed_alency7]

not sure if this related to the topic, but V i guess. though with how little s3 progressed the story, i dont even think that 5 games would be enough

In my opinion 5 would be enough they can really benefit from trimming the non important parts like the small gangs plus yu suzuki said it’s 11 chapters ideally 4 or 5 games plus he said he can do it in 4 but prefers 5 so i think it’s definitely possible and to add on to this he said that if he had to do it his way players would experience the ending in Shenmue V

 

[Reprise]

I never understood how Yu has maintained that the Shenmue story can be wrapped up in 4 or 5 games, yet when asked about how much of the story Shenmue 1-3 represents, he has said 40%. How would he finish the final 60% of the story in just one game? Even two sounds like a stretch

 

[9dragons]

@Revan You have a point. In some instances a prequel can be good idea. In a already established world a prequel could be a nice thing to learn more about the main character to understand his motivatons better. A good example for that would be the sublime Yakuza 0.

But Shenmue is different. In Shenmue we already start at the beginning of Ryo's journey. The whole point of the game is at least for me to define what person Ryo is going to be.

​

A prequel could only work with another character like Iwao. It could tell the story about how Iwao and Suming Zhao met and how the later died.

But in my humble opinion you could also tell that story in some flash back segments in Shenmue 4.


@Reprise That's a really good question. I have also been confused for quite some time how the "math" Yu-San works that 2 more games are enough to finish the complete story considering the fact that we have just reached about 40 per cent of the story progression.

I am not against it. Like mentioned in my previous posts I feel that Yu-San should tell the story at his own pace without rushing things.

 

[Zoyous]

I never understood how Yu has maintained that the Shenmue story can be wrapped up in 4 or 5 games, yet when asked about how much of the story Shenmue 1-3 represents, he has said 40%. How would he finish the final 60% of the story in just one game? Even two sounds like a stretch

Liberal use of montages, I suppose. Like you get to certain points in the story and instead of playing the next six months of Ryo's day-to-day life, you see a cutscene or experience a short playable interlude explaining where he went and what sort of training he underwent.