IGN: Yu Suzuki Talks Shenmue 4, Air Twister, and 40 Years of Game Development

[thedemon1238]

iknigaugood you sound like you are THE ONE collecting the money from new GOW and FF16 sales. If fans are not happy with new GOW and FF15-16, then why should someone care that some guys are making money? We are not these guys. :) I'm happy for them, but that's all. These franchises are dead for the fans and have no core audience to support them. Maybe in the next game everything will collapse like a tower of cards.

 

[Seaman]

If you asked God of War fans if those changes were for the better, they would have said no and they would have been wrong. Shenmue fans don't even agree on what the series is/should be about.

I think similar to this with a lot of franchises. Resident Evil for example. Fans were divided along the action and horror balance. Others about zombies or BOWs. Only when Capcom did what they pleased we got the refreshing RE7. And yet there's a amount of fans saying 7 and for extension Village aren't RE. It feels like complaining for fun. Oh, the RE3 remake clock tower drama... That was something to analyze.

Shenmue should absolutely take inspiration from other successful games including Yakuza and other open world games. Many of the ways that S3 departs from established norms contribute to how alienating it is for newcomers to play.

I agree, as this would be basically what was originaly made in S1-2 production: studying and improving over rpgs. I would add fighting games if the Virtua engine isn't avaliable (like it seems it wouldn't be). Sifu, Batman Arkham, Sleeping dogs... All those had in common fighting systems way more pleasant than S3 system.

Shenmue is a game that is very difficult for the masses/new players to understand.

Im gonna say it:
Masses/new players = the braindead generation z

Something like that is the Passport disk in the first game. For example, first you start with work, then training, then some fun/gambling, then you collect herbs/seach chobochans, do a side quest and only then go to the main quest... if you have time. If you don't have time, there's always a next day. When these things are officially in the game, these players will know that they are not playing the game right way.

Suka Pass confirms all what you're saying. A combination of "desktop game" with mobile app could add lots of playability values to Shenmue IV.

 

[shadowreaper]

If Sega is working on something Shenmue related in their super games thing it’ll be a prequel, not Shenmue 4. But I highly doubt Shenmue has anything to do with the super games. It’ll be something with tons of microtransactions.

 

[iknifaugood]

Shenmue is a game that is very difficult for the masses/new players to understand. I think it would be nice to have a separate in-game menu full of movies to show the player how to play the game.How to create tasks in his/her head, at the beginning of each day... To make something like habits, to learn to play without an arrow to show him where to go. To experience the feeling that he is free to set his own tasks.

Something like that is the Passport disk in the first game. For example, first you start with work, then training, then some fun/gambling, then you collect herbs/seach chobochans, do a side quest and only then go to the main quest... if you have time. If you don't have time, there's always a next day. When these things are officially in the game, these players will know that they are not playing the game right way.

Have you considered the possibility that people understand this, they just don't like it?

If fans are not happy with new GOW and FF15-16, then why should someone care that some guys are making money? We are not these guys.

Clearly. Because fans of God of War and Final Fantasy never have to worry about whether or not their favorite series will receive future installments. That's why the publisher making money is quite important.

These franchises are dead for the fans and have no core audience to support them. Maybe in the next game everything will collapse like a tower of cards.

God of War and Final Fantasy are not dead franchises and even if the next game in each franchise was a massive failure, that still would not "kill" those franchises.

I think similar to this with a lot of franchises. Resident Evil for example. Fans were divided along the action and horror balance. Others about zombies or BOWs. Only when Capcom did what they pleased we got the refreshing RE7. And yet there's a amount of fans saying 7 and for extension Village aren't RE. It feels like complaining for fun. Oh, the RE3 remake clock tower drama... That was something to analyze.

Fans will always complain about changes. I'm old enough to remember when RE4 was met with complaints from "hardcore" RE fans and now that's widely considered either the best or second best of that franchise. People don't know what they want until you show them.

I agree, as this would be basically what was originaly made in S1-2 production: studying and improving over rpgs. I would add fighting games if the Virtua engine isn't avaliable (like it seems it wouldn't be). Sifu, Batman Arkham, Sleeping dogs... All those had in common fighting systems way more pleasant than S3 system.

Totally agreed. Sifu is an excellent example of what a $20M game should look and play like (I highly doubt it cost that much given its price point and the fact that the devs were celebrating 500k units sold, it has since sold 2M).

Im gonna say it:
Masses/new players = the braindead generation z

I'm always optimistic about future generations and I think it's generally a mistake to blame the audience, whether it be movies, music or whatever. The biggest issue is that future generations have access to EVERYTHING so all media is in perpetual competition.

 

[thedemon1238]

Yes, being beholden to realistic schedules is kind of a novelty but it is basically abandoned in S2. You can do pretty much everything you want whenever you want during waking hours and the wait function makes up the difference. I will say that Ryo having close friends is something that is woefully under explored in S1. I think you can go the whole game without interacting with Naoyuki up to that point.

These days I was thinking about shenmue 0 as a school story with ryo and his friends. The thing that worried me the most was what Ryo was like before and after his father's death. This "getting your father killed on your birthday" event can totally change a person. It is very possible that Ryo needs specialized help. I have heard that in Japan many people suffer from depression and are left alone to deal with the problem. Imagine Ryo, Nozomi, Naoyuki, Ichiro and some other friends having fun adventures together. Ryo is sociable, smiling, talkative… And now imagine how suddenly Ryo stops talking to his closest friends, doesn't share anything with Nozomi, says almost nothing to Fuku san.... Becomes gloomy, withdrawn.... What a shock it will be for those who played Shenmue 0 when they start Shenmue 1.

Im gonna say it:
Masses/new players = the braindead generation z

Maybe because they are so used to the "universal controls scheme a.k.a. two analog Third Person Shooter movement" they have trouble with any other control scheme. I think they are not that stupid. They just don't know any better. :) See how almost all big blockbuster games are played in the same way, lead the player by the hand, etc.

They just don't understand that when the game stops you and asks for 2000 money or 5000 money, it means "stop, calm down, you're playing too fast" Simply put, if you don't have money, you haven't been doing other things and you're rushing to the main story. You're playing the game wrong, especially the first time. We get the message, because we played many games in the past, but they can't. Maybe this is the first time a game stops them like that. They get it the wrong way and without thinking, start to think that the game is bad. This is exactly why I think the game needs a whole section in the main menu, that explain everything. Also very appropriate marketing to attract players who are looking for something different.

 

[9dragons]

I think the main appeal of Shenmue is that is not a mainstream game. Turning Shenmue into something mainstream might be a good thing from a commercial standpoint but it would kill the uniqueness of the series.

But does the world need another average open-world game with the same tropes that have shown again and again in the last couple of years?

I do not think so. It is always in the realm of possibility that a series is re-launched. The Resident Evil Series has been revised a few times already. God of War is another example.


In that painful growth process, many old-school fans left the sinking ship but some new fans replaced these old fans.

That is a luxery that Shenmue does not have.

Besides that, the core identity of Shenmue is too anti-mainstream to cater the mainstream market.

Nobody wants to play Ryo who is rather dorky and from time to very clumpy guy in social settings. Kids these days want cool and over-the-top guys.

Turning Ryo into the average hero of today makes the whole plot obsolete. A guy that is already perfect cannot be sent on a journey to find himself. But would not make any sense.

 

[iknifaugood]

These days I was thinking about shenmue 0 as a school story with ryo and his friends. The thing that worried me the most was what Ryo was like before and after his father's death. This "getting your father killed on your birthday" event can totally change a person. It is very possible that Ryo needs specialized help. I have heard that in Japan many people suffer from depression and are left alone to deal with the problem. Imagine Ryo, Nozomi, Naoyuki, Ichiro and some other friends having fun adventures together. Ryo is sociable, smiling, talkative… And now imagine how suddenly Ryo stops talking to his closest friends, doesn't share anything with Nozomi, says almost nothing to Fuku san.... Becomes gloomy, withdrawn.... What a shock it will be for those who played Shenmue 0 when they start Shenmue 1.

The anime did a good job characterizing Ryo's past life as well as his friendships. There are a few scenes in S1 that do that job, but they are almost all easily missable especially on a first time playthrough. But didn't Suzuki say that he wants S0 to be about Iwao in Dobuita?

They just don't understand that when the game stops you and asks for 2000 money or 5000 money, it means "stop, calm down, you're playing too fast" Simply put, if you don't have money, you haven't been doing other things and you're rushing to the main story. You're playing the game wrong, especially the first time. We get the message, because we played many games in the past, but they can't.

To be clear:

1. Ryo reacts with shock and annoyance when he learns about how expensive the wine and book are in Shenmue 3.
2. When Ryo is asked for a similarly expensive item in S1, the plane ticket, the player does not then need to spend hours grinding for money in order to buy it. Because that is obviously a terrible idea.
3. You're acting like games haven't figured out how to encourage players to play at a slower pace. If Shenmue wants to be a slow paced life simulator about playing minigames for money, then perhaps it shouldn't also be a revenge story where Ryo routinely has to fight entire gangs of thugs, deal with his friends getting kidnapped, narrowly escape death, and learn about mystical artifacts that threaten the world. One of those sounds significantly more appealing to a mass audience, no?

I think the main appeal of Shenmue is that is not a mainstream game. Turning Shenmue into something mainstream might be a good thing from a commercial standpoint but it would kill the uniqueness of the series.

Then it shouldn't cost tens of millions of dollars to make.

 

[thedemon1238]

1. Ryo reacts with shock and annoyance when he learns about how expensive the wine and book are in Shenmue 3.

That's exactly the point! :) It's a kung fu movie cliché. The master gives overwhelming tasks to the youngster. To teach him patience and humility. To learn that he should react calmly in any situation. This is exactly the reason for the expensive wine, chasing chickens three days in a row, stamina training, etc. It's a lesson to learn.

Martial arts are learned slowly, you have to do things you don't understand and slow down. If you think about it more deeply, these everyday things that Ryo has to do delay his revenge. They will help him rethink things. I don't think the story was ever about revenge. I don't even think Ryo will ever beat Lan Di anymore. Although he is a quick learner and has talent, Lan Di is much more experienced.

In the Ryan Payton interview, he says he argued with Yu Suzuki about exactly how much the wine and the scroll should cost. He was sure that this will angry the most gamers, but he still lost the argument with Yu Suzuki. Even if he was proved right in the end, given the reaction of the people, I think in the long run Yu Suzuki will have the last laugh. The ideas in Shenmue 3 will be appreciated in the future.

Thus, the game gives a message to people far more strongly than other games do. I'm older (39) and it's easier for me to take these lessons in patience. I even caught 1000 fish the honest way! Тhis is nothing! I don't know what I would think of these paywalls if I was 20 or 25.... In any case, Suzuki's idea of provoking the young people works. The point is that not every young man is ready to take on the challenge to strength his mind. Anyway, making money in Shenmue 3 is extremely easy. Instead strengthening their minds, people come up with mods like Shenmue Kiwami, where there is no stamina system and jobs give you triple money. Everyone wants the easy way! There is nothing wrong with using cheats and Kiwami mods, but the first playthrough of the game should be genuine. It has a message.

 

[spud1897]

New interview which is from IGN Italy.

Nothing new but a cool read all the same: https://it.ign.com/yusuzuki/206404/feature/quattro-chiacchiere-con-yu-suzuki-a-lucca-comics-games

 

[Hermit]

The only franchises SEGA would blow $800 million on is either Sonic or Yakuza. These "super games" are either related to those, or they are spending nearly a billion to chase trends again

To be fair, it's $800m spread out over multiple games, so one Super Game doesn't need to be as expensive as the other. I personally think Yakuza's popularity is peaking now, I don't see it growing much more. I'm sure a Sonic game will be one of the Super Games, and I am hoping the next Phantasy Star will be too, but Shenmue is the one I dream of the most. I can't think of a single Sega ip that would be better to chase the single player cinematic game trend. That is where the money is for single player games right now.

 

[Hermit]

This is something that fans of the series are going to have to come to terms with: if we are ever going to get another Shenmue game, it's going to be different. IMO S3 already changed a lot from the original games and "felt" very different to me, but even I can admit that it was at least trying to emulate the vibe of 1 and 2. Whether in the form of a lower-budget "indie" game, an ultra-budget AAA release, or even if he just tries to make S4 the way he made S3, it will be fundamentally different from what came before. It has to be. So the issue becomes what changes fans of the series will accept and if there are even enough of us for that to matter. God of War, for instance, remade itself in a fundamentally different (but related) way and reached a MUCH wider audience because of it. Ignoring what fans of that series wanted was the smartest thing they could have done because the series went from selling 4-5M on PS2 and PS3 to over 20M on PS4.

I also think if it continues or gets a reboot there will be a lot of changes. But the things about Shenmue I love the most doesn't have to be lost. The atmosphere of Shenmue 1 with it's homely feel is to this day the most immersive a game has ever felt to me. That can be recaptured with a Shenmue reboot or even a Shenmue 4.

Shenmue has so much in common with modern cinematic games that I can't think of a better time for it. I look at Playstations games, and they are getting almost universal praise, people don't even seem to be too bothered with QTE's as much these days. I honestly feel like Shenmue fits into todays gaming landscape more than it did in 1999.

I think the biggest issue with a reboot I am struggling to come to terms with is the amount of time we would have to wait to advance the story beyond what we already know. But at the same time, Shenmue 1 and Shenmue 2 could become 1 game. I've put over 100 hundred hours into a single playthrough on Shenmue 1 and 2, but the average player could get through both games in around 30 hours if they are only interested in the story. A full packaged Shenmue 1 and 2 reboot with the story and side content packaged into one 50-60 hour game is more than doable in todays gaming landscape, if anything, it's expected.

 

[9dragons]

In the end, it is individual opinion what is the best way for Shenmue to continue. From the business aspect, it is easy. Turning Shenmue into a mainstream game to earn as much cash as possible would be the best thing to do.

But if you see Shenmue as a form of art turning it into mainstream would kill the art.

Another Last of Us/Uncharted/ God of War 2018 clone is the last thing the world would need.

These (popular) gaming series represent perfectly what is wrong with modern-day gaming. All of these days play and feel the same. They do not play in a unique way.

Shenmue with all its features and quirks does not have a place in games that are designed in such a way.

So I am against modernization. I am fully aware that clinging to the old ways might mean that there are no future Shenmue Games.

This would be a bitter pill to swallow but for me, it would be better than having further Shenmue games that are unrecognisable from the old games.

Other fans might have a different opinion and that's cool. There is no universal truth in that regard.

 

[deathofaninja]

In the end, it is individual opinion what is the best way for Shenmue to continue. From the business aspect, it is easy. Turning Shenmue into a mainstream game to earn as much cash as possible would be the best thing to do.

But if you see Shenmue as a form of art turning it into mainstream would kill the art.

Another Last of Us/Uncharted/ God of War 2018 clone is the last thing the world would need.

These (popular) gaming series represent perfectly what is wrong with modern-day gaming. All of these days play and feel the same. They do not play in a unique way.

Shenmue with all its features and quirks does not have a place in games that are designed in such a way.

So I am against modernization. I am fully aware that clinging to the old ways might mean that there are no future Shenmue Games.

This would be a bitter pill to swallow but for me, it would be better than having further Shenmue games that are unrecognisable from the old games.

Other fans might have a different opinion and that's cool. There is no universal truth in that regard.

That was very refreshing to read and see.

 

[japalp]

In the end, it is individual opinion what is the best way for Shenmue to continue. From the business aspect, it is easy. Turning Shenmue into a mainstream game to earn as much cash as possible would be the best thing to do.

But if you see Shenmue as a form of art turning it into mainstream would kill the art.

Another Last of Us/Uncharted/ God of War 2018 clone is the last thing the world would need.

These (popular) gaming series represent perfectly what is wrong with modern-day gaming. All of these days play and feel the same. They do not play in a unique way.

Shenmue with all its features and quirks does not have a place in games that are designed in such a way.

So I am against modernization. I am fully aware that clinging to the old ways might mean that there are no future Shenmue Games.

This would be a bitter pill to swallow but for me, it would be better than having further Shenmue games that are unrecognisable from the old games.

Other fans might have a different opinion and that's cool. There is no universal truth in that regard.

I completely respect this opinion and Yu probably feels similarly. I just think he needs to find some way to finish the story as we have stuck with him for 25 years.

 

[Suzaku]

I think the main appeal of Shenmue is that is not a mainstream game. Turning Shenmue into something mainstream might be a good thing from a commercial standpoint but it would kill the uniqueness of the series.

But does the world need another average open-world game with the same tropes that have shown again and again in the last couple of years?

I do not think so. It is always in the realm of possibility that a series is re-launched. The Resident Evil Series has been revised a few times already. God of War is another example.


In that painful growth process, many old-school fans left the sinking ship but some new fans replaced these old fans.

That is a luxery that Shenmue does not have.

Besides that, the core identity of Shenmue is too anti-mainstream to cater the mainstream market.

Nobody wants to play Ryo who is rather dorky and from time to very clumpy guy in social settings. Kids these days want cool and over-the-top guys.

Turning Ryo into the average hero of today makes the whole plot obsolete. A guy that is already perfect cannot be sent on a journey to find himself. But would not make any sense.

That's why I'm glad Shenmue 3 was a real Shenmue experience, and not a different game with the "Shenmue skin" on.
What's the point to have a Shenmue similar to Yakuza, GTA or Life is Strange? Just play those.

We are here to play as Ryo, not as some gangster, super hero or whatever.
We are here to enjoy a long spiritual journey, not to just have our share of instant gratification by killing random people on the streets or to steal cars, or to fill various gauges or to receive flashy prizes.


It's not even a matter of being too niche, Shenmue is a million seller franchise, it means these themes can sell just as well as other commercial themes.
Besides, in the current market there are more possibilities and even the most niche series can find success, so there is no excuse for Shenmue to remain a niche thing only.
We are even in the generation of open world games, there will never be a better time than this for Shenmue.

 

[9dragons]

That's true. Open-world games are very common these days. It should be the right time to bring back real open-world games like Shenmue where the exploration of the world means business instead of just running from set peace to set peace with lots of meaningless action.

 

[Seaman]

We are here to play as Ryo, not as some gangster, super hero or whatever.
We are here to enjoy a long spiritual journey, not to just have our share of instant gratification by killing random people on the streets or to steal cars, or to fill various gauges or to receive flashy prizes.

Leave my golden Dural alone.

That's true. Open-world games are very common these days. It should be the right time to bring back real open-world games like Shenmue where the exploration of the world means business instead of just running from set peace to set peace with lots of meaningless action.

That's why Shenmue IV should get smaller in size but deeper in gameplay and story. With the cost of making a single huge sandbox, make two so called nowadays "meta" games. Lacking a clear identity its also a form of identity and that serves Shenmue really well imo.

I'm always optimistic about future generations and I think it's generally a mistake to blame the audience, whether it be movies, music or whatever. The biggest issue is that future generations have access to EVERYTHING so all media is in perpetual competition.

Maybe because they are so used to the "universal controls scheme a.k.a. two analog Third Person Shooter movement" they have trouble with any other control scheme. I think they are not that stupid. They just don't know any better. :) See how almost all big blockbuster games are played in the same way, lead the player by the hand, etc.

They just don't understand that when the game stops you and asks for 2000 money or 5000 money, it means "stop, calm down, you're playing too fast" Simply put, if you don't have money, you haven't been doing other things and you're rushing to the main story. You're playing the game wrong, especially the first time. We get the message, because we played many games in the past, but they can't. Maybe this is the first time a game stops them like that. They get it the wrong way and without thinking, start to think that the game is bad. This is exactly why I think the game needs a whole section in the main menu, that explain everything. Also very appropriate marketing to attract players who are looking for something different.

C'mon guys, we all aged. We have a favourite frying pan now. Join me into trashing the new humanoids!

 

[iknifaugood]

That's exactly the point! :) It's a kung fu movie cliché. The master gives overwhelming tasks to the youngster. To teach him patience and humility. To learn that he should react calmly in any situation. This is exactly the reason for the expensive wine, chasing chickens three days in a row, stamina training, etc. It's a lesson to learn.

Martial arts are learned slowly, you have to do things you don't understand and slow down. If you think about it more deeply, these everyday things that Ryo has to do delay his revenge. They will help him rethink things. I don't think the story was ever about revenge. I don't even think Ryo will ever beat Lan Di anymore. Although he is a quick learner and has talent, Lan Di is much more experienced.

In the Ryan Payton interview, he says he argued with Yu Suzuki about exactly how much the wine and the scroll should cost. He was sure that this will angry the most gamers, but he still lost the argument with Yu Suzuki. Even if he was proved right in the end, given the reaction of the people, I think in the long run Yu Suzuki will have the last laugh. The ideas in Shenmue 3 will be appreciated in the future.

Thus, the game gives a message to people far more strongly than other games do. I'm older (39) and it's easier for me to take these lessons in patience. I even caught 1000 fish the honest way! Тhis is nothing! I don't know what I would think of these paywalls if I was 20 or 25.... In any case, Suzuki's idea of provoking the young people works. The point is that not every young man is ready to take on the challenge to strength his mind. Anyway, making money in Shenmue 3 is extremely easy. Instead strengthening their minds, people come up with mods like Shenmue Kiwami, where there is no stamina system and jobs give you triple money. Everyone wants the easy way! There is nothing wrong with using cheats and Kiwami mods, but the first playthrough of the game should be genuine. It has a message.

This always becomes circular logic. If S3 intended for the player to feel frustrated at the absurd cost of the wine and book, then it is meant to be a roadblock (which makes sense given Ryo's reaction). If however, you've been playing S3 "properly" and "taking your time", then Ryo's reaction (and thus, the story beat) makes no sense. The purpose of this trope in martial arts movies is that the master requires the pupil to train, but that's not what these guys require: they require Ryo to earn money, which has nothing to do with training. It is also at odds with how Shenmue 1 and 2 handled this (as with the plane ticket and Xiuying's training).

I haven't heard the interview you're referring to but I'd be interested in checking it out. It's one of the most baffling design choices I've ever encountered.

 

[spud1897]

This always becomes circular logic. If S3 intended for the player to feel frustrated at the absurd cost of the wine and book, then it is meant to be a roadblock (which makes sense given Ryo's reaction). If however, you've been playing S3 "properly" and "taking your time", then Ryo's reaction (and thus, the story beat) makes no sense. The purpose of this trope in martial arts movies is that the master requires the pupil to train, but that's not what these guys require: they require Ryo to earn money, which has nothing to do with training. It is also at odds with how Shenmue 1 and 2 handled this (as with the plane ticket and Xiuying's training).

I haven't heard the interview you're referring to but I'd be interested in checking it out. It's one of the most baffling design choices I've ever encountered.

It's either in this one:


or this one:

 

[spud1897]

Keep in mind these are 3 years old now.