IGN: Yu Suzuki Talks Shenmue 4, Air Twister, and 40 Years of Game Development

Shenmue has so much in common with modern cinematic games that I can't think of a better time for it. I look at Playstations games, and they are getting almost universal praise, people don't even seem to be too bothered with QTE's as much these days. I honestly feel like Shenmue fits into todays gaming landscape more than it did in 1999.
It is the direct precursor to these types of games, much more so than it is to "open world" games.

I think the biggest issue with a reboot I am struggling to come to terms with is the amount of time we would have to wait to advance the story beyond what we already know. But at the same time, Shenmue 1 and Shenmue 2 could become 1 game. I've put over 100 hundred hours into a single playthrough on Shenmue 1 and 2, but the average player could get through both games in around 30 hours if they are only interested in the story. A full packaged Shenmue 1 and 2 reboot with the story and side content packaged into one 50-60 hour game is more than doable in todays gaming landscape, if anything, it's expected.
I share this concern but I think at this point it will be for the better to help maintain a consistent authorial "voice" across the entire story. As it stands, clearly much has changed in 20 years and threads that were set up or things that were moved around may not make sense anymore. I wouldn't even be opposed to going back to the original VFRPG chapter structure (including the train etc.) to change things up. They shouldn't just be straight remakes, especially of S3's content.

Another Last of Us/Uncharted/ God of War 2018 clone is the last thing the world would need.

These (popular) gaming series represent perfectly what is wrong with modern-day gaming. All of these days play and feel the same. They do not play in a unique way.
The Last of Us is a stealth/survival horror game set in a post apocalypse, Uncharted is an action/adventure shooter set in the modern day, and God of War is a melee action game with RPG elements set in fantasy mythology. These games are totally different and represent something near the apex of AAA game development.

Shenmue with all its features and quirks does not have a place in games that are designed in such a way.
It's worth noting that many of Shenmue's quirks stem from the fact that it was reacting to the gaming landscape of over 20 years ago. It was instrumental in paving the way, but we have found better ways to achieve what it was setting out to do in the intervening years.

It should be the right time to bring back real open-world games like Shenmue where the exploration of the world means business instead of just running from set peace to set peace with lots of meaningless action.
I'm curious what you mean by this.
 
It's time for a change but gamers have to vote with their wallets. Go for the games that don't do that--Baldurs Gate, RoboCop, Alan Wake II, God of War Ragnarok, Horizon, etc.

Robocop is amazing, i'm playing it right now and I'm so impressed with it.

Reason i mention it is because their last game Terminator: Resistance came out the same week as Shenmue III and the quality difference between Terminator and Robocop is a huge step in the right direction, not that Terminator was bad (I thoroughly enjoyed it, fuck critics) but Robocop is much better

Same can happen for YsNet if someone will invest.

I think Teyon is a polish developer with only like 40 people? It's an incredible achievement for a small studio.
 
@iknifaugood I will try to explain but I think we just have very different taste in gaming. So we have to agree to disagree.

Last of US, Uncharted and God of War do not play different. They are all third person games with crafting elements that play in a big but emtpy world with zero elements of interactivity.

That is the main problem of all open world games these days. They are big but empty with little things to do.

Shenmue on the other hand gives you the feeling that you are really part of the world and just a foreign object in the world.

We have different tastes in the end.
 
Sony AAA games all use a single templates: being third person action games, with big sections of linear walking + dialogues.
Some people call those "walking simulators", with just the addition of action parts.

To me they are more graphical showcase than anything else, the games are usually shallow, you never feel part of the world as the story is the usual hollywood / tv tropes, action is always the same shooter thing, exploration is shallow even in their open world games that are really empty, and they also have some of the worst characters for protagonists.
I don't think Ellie, the other muscle woman, Aloy, the samurai dude of Tsushima, the male Lara Croft etc. are so interesting to the point I want to be one of them.

While anyone who grew with martial arts movies, wants to be just like Ryo. That alone create a total different connection between the player and the game.
 
Sony AAA games all use a single templates: being third person action games, with big sections of linear walking + dialogues.
Some people call those "walking simulators", with just the addition of action parts.

To me they are more graphical showcase than anything else, the games are usually shallow, you never feel part of the world as the story is the usual hollywood / tv tropes, action is always the same shooter thing, exploration is shallow even in their open world games that are really empty, and they also have some of the worst characters for protagonists.
I don't think Ellie, the other muscle woman, Aloy, the samurai dude of Tsushima, the male Lara Croft etc. are so interesting to the point I want to be one of them.

While anyone who grew with martial arts movies, wants to be just like Ryo. That alone create a total different connection between the player and the game.

That is correct. The immersion of Shenmue is out of this world. You are not just playing Ryo you are Ryo. You have to suffer with him in the world to progress. You have to learn how the world in Shenmue works to progress. It is just a different level of immersion even for the standards of today.
 
Last of US, Uncharted and God of War do not play different. They are all third person games with crafting elements that play in a big but emtpy world with zero elements of interactivity
If Shenmue had a crafting system you could literally lump it in with that description. Games are either third person or first person, that has nothing to do with its genre or gameplay. They have similar controls perhaps, but then most games do. They are as different as The Walking Dead, Indiana Jones, and Conan the Barbarian. You don't have to like them but to say that they are the same is completely wrong headed.

That is the main problem of all open world games these days. They are big but empty with little things to do.
I largely agree with this but I fail to see how Shenmue is exempt from this.

emtpy world with zero elements of interactivity.
Just to emphasize this for a second: I think what you mean is that they don't have a lot of superfluous interactivity (ie: in Shenmue you can talk to any NPC and open drawers etc.), but high budget games have to focus and streamline. Again, Shenmue came out 20 years ago when the idea of going into first person in a third person game and seeing all the craft and detail was a novelty; now every AAA game is made to that level of detail and beyond so emphasizing it with interactivity that distracts from the focus of the game is a waste of resources.

While anyone who grew with martial arts movies, wants to be just like Ryo. That alone create a total different connection between the player and the game.
I agree and I think Shenmue would benefit greatly from hewing closer to those martial arts movies rather than making Ryo work odd jobs to earn money.
 
It is not that easy @iknifaugood . There are way more similarties than just the controls.

let me go back into the grumpy old man mode for a while. Let's compare Silent Hill and Resident Evil (the PS1) games. Both are Survival Horror Games. but they still feel and play differently. Resident Evil has pre-rendered backgrounds and a limited inventory. Just one close combat weapon and that weapon is weak. Silent Hill has real-time backgrounds and a flashlight. Other differences are unlimited inventory and the close combat weapons that are rather powerful. That makes the combat feel different.

Let's take a look at some first-person Shooter. Half-Life is no Doom or Quake. It plays differently. Different Settings and different Combat Mechanics.

Goldeneye and Perfekt Dark for the N64 play also differently than the PC titles. Due to the different hitting zones, the combat feels way more impactful.


I could move on the whole day. My point is that modern-day games lack variety. Combat feels the same. You kill enemies from cover without really seeing them. They rarely react to attacks these days. Or if they do it cannot be seen because they are too far away.

You cannot damage stuff in most modern games. The immersion used to be greater back then. Too much power is used to make the world bigger. But bigger is not always better.

Like I said our tastes are different. I would prefer smaller worlds that have more impact compared to the average rule of thumb for game design.
 
It is not that easy @iknifaugood . There are way more similarties than just the controls.

let me go back into the grumpy old man mode for a while. Let's compare Silent Hill and Resident Evil (the PS1) games. Both are Survival Horror Games. but they still feel and play differently. Resident Evil has pre-rendered backgrounds and a limited inventory. Just one close combat weapon and that weapon is weak. Silent Hill has real-time backgrounds and a flashlight. Other differences are unlimited inventory and the close combat weapons that are rather powerful. That makes the combat feel different.

Let's take a look at some first-person Shooter. Half-Life is no Doom or Quake. It plays differently. Different Settings and different Combat Mechanics.

Goldeneye and Perfekt Dark for the N64 play also differently than the PC titles. Due to the different hitting zones, the combat feels way more impactful.


I could move on the whole day. My point is that modern-day games lack variety. Combat feels the same. You kill enemies from cover without really seeing them. They rarely react to attacks these days. Or if they do it cannot be seen because they are too far away.

You cannot damage stuff in most modern games. The immersion used to be greater back then. Too much power is used to make the world bigger. But bigger is not always better.

Like I said our tastes are different. I would prefer smaller worlds that have more impact compared to the average rule of thumb for game design.
Your examples are all from over a quarter century ago and were mostly born of technical limitations. Games aren't made with fixed camera angles anymore for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that you still need to create those 3D environments; with more capable 3D engines, plus the fact that players don't like "tank controls", it makes it a no brainer to just adopt the standard over-the-shoulder camera. FWIW even the RE remakes opt for a more "clunky" control scheme to better mesh with the overall design of the game.

Goldeneye and PD were similarly some of the very first console FPS games designed for a controller with only one analog stick; they don't make games with those controls anymore because consoles figured out (more or less) how to play like PC FPS games. Your Half-Life example is exactly what I'm talking about; the setting and combat mechanics make a huge difference! You're telling me that you'd recommend someone who liked Uncharted would automatically like God of War? One is basically a shooter with light platforming and the other is a melee combat game with RPG elements. They have way less in common than Half-Life and Quake.

There's a big difference between how games were "intended" to be designed and how they were designed around the limitations of the era. I fully believe that Shenmue could be updated to be closer to what was "intended" by those first 2 games while abandoning their limitations.

And certain games do prioritize interactivity, like Deus Ex or Breath of the Wild, but it's increasingly difficult to design around that since it basically gives players infinite ways to break the game and more scripted, story-based games need to stay focused. I'm not talking about preference btw, you're free to like what you like; it's just the reality of game design.
 
Like I said our tastes different. And I am not saying this because I am into trolling I really think that God of War and uncharted are very similar. They look very similar graphically and the also play in similar way. Both play in big but rather empty worlds without much physically interactions possible.


Both games offer close and distant combat with tons of enemies. Both offer dialogues while walking that are hard to catch when you doing something else than walking.

But I think we go arround in circles. I respect your opinion and if could say anything postive about modern game design I would agree that modern design could help to improve Shenmue.

I have yet to find a modern game that wows me the same like some older games did.

It is not the tech I distrust. The tech is good these days but I think the tech is wasted when just used for making worlds bigger and bigger.

Investing in better AI and some robust Physics engine would be better way. But that's just me.
 
It's either in this one:


or this one:

Nice interview. Would be very interested in a follow-up. It's funny how it kind of sounds like I think Yu Suzuki was in the right headspace at the beginning of development (making sacrifices, focusing on story) but I agree with Ryan's feedback as development progressed (eliminating intrusive cutscenes, the crazy cost of the money gates). Wish he elaborated on the story and how much it meshed with the final product.

He's right about a lot of the ins and outs of game development, particularly what he says about sequels, but in my experience, while the publisher generally handles localization, that does not extend to voice acting; particularly a game with as much voice acting as Shenmue. That is absolutely part of the overall development budget.
 
Nice interview. Would be very interested in a follow-up. It's funny how it kind of sounds like I think Yu Suzuki was in the right headspace at the beginning of development (making sacrifices, focusing on story) but I agree with Ryan's feedback as development progressed (eliminating intrusive cutscenes, the crazy cost of the money gates). Wish he elaborated on the story and how much it meshed with the final product.

He's right about a lot of the ins and outs of game development, particularly what he says about sequels, but in my experience, while the publisher generally handles localization, that does not extend to voice acting; particularly a game with as much voice acting as Shenmue. That is absolutely part of the overall development budget.
It's on the list to do one with Ryan at some stage. Since then he's sold his company to META and is likely doing very well for himself. That and I haven't spoke to him in about a year so I feel a little cheeky rocking up and asking for another one!

That said I have a tonne of time for Ryan and how candidly he spoke in these interviews especially to a complete novice like me at the time. I do wonder if he will have involvement for a Shenmue 4.
 
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Like I said our tastes different. And I am not saying this because I am into trolling I really think that God of War and uncharted are very similar. They look very similar graphically and the also play in similar way. Both play in big but rather empty worlds without much physically interactions possible.


Both games offer close and distant combat with tons of enemies. Both offer dialogues while walking that are hard to catch when you doing something else than walking.

But I think we go arround in circles. I respect your opinion and if could say anything postive about modern game design I would agree that modern design could help to improve Shenmue.

I have yet to find a modern game that wows me the same like some older games did.

It is not the tech I distrust. The tech is good these days but I think the tech is wasted when just used for making worlds bigger and bigger.

Investing in better AI and some robust Physics engine would be better way. But that's just me.
I understand what you mean about how games are becoming more homogenous and I think a lot of that has to do with increased development budget (the original RE2 cost approx $1M to develop +$5M in marketing and the remake is around $100M), the rise of indie games which fill the niche of more "experimental" controls and genres, and the fact that generational leaps in technology just aren't that massive post-seventh gen. Compare how Solid Snake looked on PS1, with shadows for eyes and no facial animation, to the quantum leap to PS2; we'll likely never see that kind of leap again.

On the whole though while I think gaming was at its most sustainable around the PS2 era (in terms of budget-revenue) it is inarguably a better place now considering how much access there is to game preservation as well as the ability to create and market your own game. The first Spider-Man game I ever played looked like this:
My mind couldn't even fathom that one day it would turn into this:
 
As a way to revitalise the franchise, I'm certainly not opposed to a "Shenmue Zero". In fact, exploring Yamanose, Sakuragaoka, Dobuita, etc. with cutting-edge UE5 technology and a new prequel storyline, is almost as appealing to me as Shenmue IV.

You could feature more of Ryo's school and social life, including the martial arts tournament -- that seems like a given. You could juxtapose the more light-hearted Ryo plot with a playable Iwao plot, with mystery and foreboding.

You could perhaps roll the prequel events directly into a retelling of the entire first chapter. After all, Shenmue is a fairly condensed game by today's standards, with only a handful of locations. I don't think a streamlined, more action-focussed retelling of both Shenmue I and II would do the originals justice, though. I'd be quite sceptical of that approach, but who knows -- maybe they could make it work? I enjoyed the anime, after all. If it was overly fixated on moving the plot forward, I'd be concerned they'd miss the sense of just living in a world that really makes Shenmue what it is.

I agree and I think Shenmue would benefit greatly from hewing closer to those martial arts movies rather than making Ryo work odd jobs to earn money.

I think money-gating was generally poorly-implemented in both Shenmue II and III but given the focus on a working economy, I can see how they ended up there. However, I like side activities as a concept and think they contribute to the world and sense of place. Providing an alternative to "you need lots of money to progress" would be ideal going forward, instead of "you have a few different ways of making money, now go do it". E.g. run an errand for someone and they'll give you the expensive jar of alcohol instead.

I think a certain level of mundanity and routine enhances the martial arts aspects, also. There is a balance to strike.
 
I think money-gating was generally poorly-implemented in both Shenmue II
I think money-gating was generally poorly-implemented in both Shenmue II and III but given the focus on a working economy, I can see how they ended up there.
There is a way for this to work but it needs to be more all encompassing and dare I say "FREE" than it's been in any of the Shenmue games thus far. Imagine if Ryo were able to choose where he sleeps and that could come with a stamina cost or bonus. You could have options between free places, cheap places or nice hotels that would give more of a reason to have money. There could also be a more rigid scheduling system with a shorter finite time to complete the game so choosing between money and training would carry more weight. In this way I wouldn't actually mind if money gating were a thing (sometimes, and justified by the story) since earning money would be more of an established mechanic and not earning money is an active choice by the player.

Of course this would only work if money is a bigger part of the overall game, so it shouldn't just be paywalls. The realistic nature of Ryo getting from one place to another is actually a really good place to start and it would be nice to have alternatives. Like maybe you could choose to buy a boat ticket or you could help the captain out in a side quest, but this would also depend on what point is being driven at and how Suzuki wants money treated. I think it's important for these things to be consistent.
 
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Guys, remember in 2014 when Yu Suzuki was asked in interviews about Shenmue 3 he would talk about it as if he wasn’t working on it with his classic “if the circumstances are right, I’d like to make it.” Meanwhile, he was busy at that point behind-the-scenes doing preliminary work to get the Kickstarter project ready with Sony in-time for E3. He could very well be working on Shenmue 4 here as well, while speaking about it as if it’s not being worked on and this is just interview NDA speak. Until he says “Shenmue 4 isn’t happening, we’re not working on it” - we can do as Cedric says and Keep the faith!
@SMDzero read this
 
Sorry, I know you didn't @ me, but you keep quoting this and I just want to point out -- in 2014 he really wasn't working on it. Yeah, he was reaching out to pitch it to publishers and then he was preparing for a Kickstarter. But all they had to present at the Kickstarter launch was that really rough video of Ryo and Shenhua walking through the forest, none of which ended up being used in Shenmue III (thankfully). He said "if the circumstances are right, I'd like to make it" which was absolutely a literal statement, not some coded message like wink, wink everybody! It's happening right now!

And these day's he's also said at various times something to the effect of, 'if I get the opportunity I'd like to continue/finish the story.' Again, not secretly indicating that he's somehow years into development of it. Not trying to be a downer, but some of the speculation around here is really fanciful. Oh, this random publisher's social media account "liked" a comment about Shenmue, that must mean they're bankrolling it and it's about to be announced at the next big gaming industry event! I can see how appealing that thought is but it's really just painful for people when it doesn't come to pass.
 
Sorry, I know you didn't @ me, but you keep quoting this and I just want to point out -- in 2014 he really wasn't working on it. Yeah, he was reaching out to pitch it to publishers and then he was preparing for a Kickstarter. But all they had to present at the Kickstarter launch was that really rough video of Ryo and Shenhua walking through the forest, none of which ended up being used in Shenmue III (thankfully). He said "if the circumstances are right, I'd like to make it" which was absolutely a literal statement, not some coded message like wink, wink everybody! It's happening right now!

And these day's he's also said at various times something to the effect of, 'if I get the opportunity I'd like to continue/finish the story.' Again, not secretly indicating that he's somehow years into development of it. Not trying to be a downer, but some of the speculation around here is really fanciful. Oh, this random publisher's social media account "liked" a comment about Shenmue, that must mean they're bankrolling it and it's about to be announced at the next big gaming industry event! I can see how appealing that thought is but it's really just painful for people when it doesn't come to pass.
Yeah i get ur side well just wait for the end of 2024 and see, if it’s not announced by then, then we should start getting worried
 
2024 is the deadline, I agree.
Who knows if something is moving behind the scenes currently, but looking at how Suzuki talks recently, I think yes, at least on a pre-production level.
 
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