Impressions on the plot and the ending (only read if you finished the game)

adom11800 said:
I can see why people would be annoyed by that but seems like Shenmue IV will answer more questions. Maybe he wanted to put it in Shenmue 3 but couldn't.
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Story/script is not a budget issue, it's a creative one.

It wouldn't have cost any more for Ryo and Shenhua to simply have a conversation about the poem or the sword.
 
Furinkazan said:
Story/script is not a budget issue, it's a creative one.
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It's both. If there's a scenario that could be incorporated through gameplay (like the character perspective feature where you switch between Ryo, Ren, and Shenhua during the climax) but they were forced to cut it due to budget constraints, then that could very well be detrimental to the story the game is trying to tell.
 
Furinkazan said:
Story/script is not a budget issue, it's a creative one.

It wouldn't have cost any more for Ryo and Shenhua to simply have a conversation about the poem or the sword.
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I agree but that might happen in Shenmue IV, you never know. Remember Shenhua was saying the poem again during Shenmue 3's ending? I admit though Shenmue 3 could have been better but the game was what we should have expected really. A continuation of the story. But if you was disappointed with it then sorry to hear that but there's not much else I can say.
 
taciturngreyhound said:
It's both. If there's a scenario that could be incorporated through gameplay (like the character perspective feature where you switch between Ryo, Ren, and Shenhua during the climax) but they were forced to cut it due to budget constraints, then that could very well be detrimental to the story the game is trying to tell.
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Sorry, i don't buy it.

"Hey Yu, we don't have enough budget/time to build the character perspective system"

"Dang, guess that means i can't tell them what the poem is about"

I understand gameplay mechanics being cut. I cannot understand why the story has barely moved.
 
Revan said:
Just finished the game. I'm very satisfied, but also a little nervous about waiting for Shenmue IV.

The Castle area made sense to me. I didn't want Ryo to be a martial arts expert by the end of Niaowu and bust down the Castle door before beating up all the Chi You Men - Lan Di included! That wouldn't have made any sense considering this is Ryo's first proper battle with Lan Di following Shenmue 1.

The whole sequence just screams Empire Strikes Back to me when Luke prematurely ends his training with Yoda to recklessly save his friends from Vader. Ryo is scolded by Grandmaster Bei for not being ready to face what's in the Castle, but he goes regardless to save Shenhua and ends up losing the Phoenix Mirror to Niao Sun and, despite faring a bit better this time and not losing in five seconds flat, nearly dies at Lan Di's hands.

The conclusion to Shenmue 3 serves as a proper introduction to the Chi You Men and shows how much Ryo has improved to actually stand against Lan Di. The next time Ryo encounters the Chi You Men, he would have likely finished his training and be better able to defeat them.

But yeah: going from losing to simple thugs at the start of the game and then kicking Lan Di's arse by the end while solving all mysteries pertaining to Iwao and the Mirrors leaving absolutely nothing for Shenmue IV...thank God that didn't happen as that would have been awful.
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100% agreed. I thought the game was absolutely brilliant from start to finish. As someone who has actually been waiting 18 years for this, I was blown away. It exceeded my expectations in just about every department. I am genuinely confused by all the whining, and I am so, so thankful that the Shenmue series is in Yu Suzuki's hands, and not the fans', judging by some of the reactions and story suggestions here.

I cannot wait for Shenmue IV.
 
DarksideHazuki said:
100% agreed. I thought the game was absolutely brilliant from start to finish. As someone who has actually been waiting 18 years for this, I was blown away. It exceeded my expectations in just about every department. I am genuinely confused by all the whining, and I am so, so thankful that the Shenmue series is in Yu Suzuki's hands, and not the fans', judging by some of the reactions and story suggestions here.

I cannot wait for Shenmue IV.
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What baffles me is this disappointment that Shenmue 3 didn't resolve its key mysteries or have its core villains defeated when we're only at the 40% mark in the storyline. What kind of story does that?!

We knew going into this project that a Shenmue 4 (maybe even a Shenmue 5) would still be needed to wrap things. We Kickstarted a continuation, not an ending.
 
Revan said:
What baffles me is this disappointment that Shenmue 3 didn't resolve its key mysteries or have its core villains defeated when we're only at the 40% mark in the storyline. What kind of story does that?!

We knew going into this project that a Shenmue 4 (maybe even a Shenmue 5) would still be needed to wrap things. We Kickstarted a continuation, not an ending.
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Nobody sane or reasonable was expecting everything. All 4 Chiyoumen bosses, the big boss, Ziming, the treasure, Shenhua's 'thing', etc.

Suzuki himself said we'd get more on the poem and sword.

You realize there's a pretty big gap between everything and nothing, right? Cos other than the obvious (an Imperial envoy went to Bailu to get the mirrors carved, the photo of Iwao and Zhao) we got nothing.
 
Well, I've seen comments that Lan Di should have been defeated etc and I was mainly responding to that.

I think the game managed to cover quite a good chunk of story:

- An Imperial envoy went to Bailu to get the mirrors carved
- The Emperor of China chose Shenhua's family line specifically to carve the mirrors for an unknown reason
- The Dragon Mirror represents an Emperor & the Phoenix Mirror represents an Empress
- The mirrors unlock an ancient treasure of an Emperor and an Empress which we now learn is locked away in a cliff temple
- Ryo's mother - Akane Hazuki - is referenced for the first time in the series canon
- The Sword of Seven Stars was a key that unlocked the treasure map
- A martial artist declares that it was not in Iwao's nature to kill - Zhao instead could have died under other circumstances
- We meet Niao Sun who steals the Phoenix Mirror from Ryo and now wants to overthrow Lan Di and rule the Chi You Men
- Both mirrors were locked away in a mountain, but Zhao retrieved them to prevent the Chi You Men from obtaining these which got him killed and his son was abducted and raised by the organisation
- Shenmue 3 ends with Ryo, Ren and Shenhua journeying to this mysterious mountain where the treasure is still kept

I think that's a lot of progress considering we're only 40% through.
 
I understand what some of you are trying to say but something doesn't fit. If Ryo progressing too fast does sound weird to you, how come Ryo is going to beat the 4 bosses of the Chiyoumen (even 5 if we count Tentei) while he did not even beat one of them in 3 games. All of a sudden he's going to be super strong and take them down ?

Let's say Ryo won against Niao Sun in Shenmue III and lost against Lan Di. He'd meet and take down Koutei and Gentei in S4 and Lan Di + Tentei in Shenmue V (the last game).

Now, he'd have to be strong enough to handle 2 to 3 bosses in a single game while he struggled against Muscles Man, a guy that is not even a leader ?

I'm not sure how the story will continue from now on but it'd have been better to see Ryo progress faster so it doesn't seem too weird in the next games than having Ryo struggle against 2 simple thugs and roll on bosses in the next 2 games. They could use a time skip and show Ryo months later, after his training period.

What bothers me is the lack of informations from Shenhua's father. We keep trying to save him from start to finish and :

- No important scene between him and his daughter
- 30 seconds talk to barely learn anything new (so what was the point of saving him?)

Don't get me wrong, I loved Shenmue III, its a fantastic game and I'll play more when I have free time. But it lacks story content.
 
Didn't like the ending that much, it felt silly and rushed. Lan Di standing in the burning castle is like he had a brain fade. The QTE, they have been so bad in this game, so pointless, why did they put that in the end of the game?. That last part with Lan Di's bodyguards should have been just a cutscene and seriously the Bruce Lee wannabe guy, way to ruin the serious tone.

All the segment in the castle was ridiculous, why is Lan Di there?, Niao Sun had zero development, is like they put her in the plot for reasons, same goes for Ren and Chai.
 
Just finished the game, I'm happy we finally got to take a few hits at Lan Di, even if it was pointless.

Disapointed at the content of the Old Castle, the stretch goal update made me think they replaced Baisha with this area, since Baisha was going to be another city, I hoped it would have a bit of content, but no, it was trully the end, you only get one extra quest + you can stock up on fruits, good thing they warn you of the point of no return in Niaowu.

I hope if Shenmue IV happens, it'll be packed with story elements.

And the credit music... the chawan sign music from shenmue II... they lost the rights of the credit music from Shenmue I&II ?
 
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David De ville said:
I understand what some of you are trying to say but something doesn't fit. If Ryo progressing too fast does sound weird to you, how come Ryo is going to beat the 4 bosses of the Chiyoumen (even 5 if we count Tentei) while he did not even beat one of them in 3 games. All of a sudden he's going to be super strong and take them down ?

Let's say Ryo won against Niao Sun in Shenmue III and lost against Lan Di. He'd meet and take down Koutei and Gentei in S4 and Lan Di + Tentei in Shenmue V (the last game).

Now, he'd have to be strong enough to handle 2 to 3 bosses in a single game while he struggled against Muscles Man, a guy that is not even a leader ?

I'm not sure how the story will continue from now on but it'd have been better to see Ryo progress faster so it doesn't seem too weird in the next games than having Ryo struggle against 2 simple thugs and roll on bosses in the next 2 games. They could use a time skip and show Ryo months later, after his training period.

What bothers me is the lack of informations from Shenhua's father. We keep trying to save him from start to finish and :

- No important scene between him and his daughter
- 30 seconds talk to barely learn anything new (so what was the point of saving him?)

Don't get me wrong, I loved Shenmue III, its a fantastic game and I'll play more when I have free time. But it lacks story content.
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I agree 100%

The story was so weak.

Shenhua's father offered next to nothing. He didn't explain about the poem and what Shenhua and Ryo's destiny is together, or what they are supposed to do. Niao Sun should have been the major boss in this game, so we got time to know her character during the time of playing the game. The story of Shenmue is the most important thing to me compared to side questions, gambling, fighting, arcades etc. I would have much preffered removing a lot of that content for a better story and character development. We have waiting such a long time for this story to progress but I feel we maybe have about 2% more information that we did before. There is so many characters we have yet to see in the Chi You Men and instead we got a game with a few "thugs".

Thugs just don't feel like a danger anymore. Ryo has defeated thugs countless times up to this stage and then also the Yellow Head and Dou Niu and also Master Bahiu of course. Going back to thugs again felt like such a step back.

I feel there is little replay value in this game now and I can't see myself playing it again.
 
Did the rapport/affinity system not make it in then?

Just finished it and realised I never really had anything like that. Nobody talked to me differently and the only dialogue choice I remember was calling that old woman in Bailu beautiful or something else.

I feel the same as everyone else regarding how little it moved things on. I would have liked Ryo to fight and defeat one leader of the Chi You Men at least. Because if we're lucky enough to get a 4 he's going to have to do an awful lot of Rocky montage training to actually fit them into a game now.
 
I’m just so surprised that the story turned out the way it did. I really thought since Yu had to cut and trim the overall story that it’d be jam-packed along the lines of II, but it ended up as “Ryo can’t defeat thugs he has normally had no issues with and has to learn a special move x2 and oh here is Lan Di for some reason.”

I still have so many questions (if something got answered please let me know)

-Why was Lan Di in Niaowu (we knew in 2 he was headed to Guilin but we really don’t know why, clearly something with the mirrors/treasure but not expanded on).
-How did Niao Sun know Ryo had the mirror? Just spying on him?
-So the giant mirrors were just carved to honor the emperor/empress or...?
-Why did Shenhua’s father say “go with the one who holds the Phoenix” and make it seem all mystical and important and then Yuan never even talks about that when you finally rescue him
-Did Ryo somehow not recognize Chai or care that he showed back up?
-How can Ryo body Chai so easily now but struggle against “thugs”
 
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About the Phoenix mirror, what happened finally ?
Niao Sun got one mirror, the fake or real one ? (my guess is she got the real one to save Shenhua since the fake one was easy to spot and as long as Lan Di hasn't got both mirrors it's "fine")
Ren threw another one in the water... (probably the fake as a distraction to save Ryo).

EDIT : Just watched the castle part again, Niao Sun has the real one, the fake one was thrown in the water.
 
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Shadow2222 said:
-Why was Lan Di in Niaowu (we knew in 2 he was headed to Guilin but we really don’t know why, clearly something with the mirrors/treasure but not expanded on).
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To bait Ryo into bringing him the Phoenix Mirror. He was betrayed by Niao Sun, and his plans were thwarted.

Shadow2222 said:
-How did Niao Sun know Ryo had the mirror? Just spying on him?
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Niao Sun is a Chi You Men leader, she knew as much as Lan Di and the others.

Shadow2222 said:
-How can Ryo body Chai so easily now but struggle against “thugs”
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I think it's pretty clear that the "thugs" of the Red Snakes, and especially their leader Ge are seriously well-trained martial artists, much stronger than anyone Ryo has faced up to this point. Ge has an extremely unique, powerful martial arts style. The game stresses that this is one of the strongest styles of Bajiquan, and Ryo has to spend time studying and training in order to counter it specifically.

I don't know why people expect Ryo to be some sort of martial arts master 40% into the story. The entire point that Yu Suzuki has been drilling into our heads repeatedly for 3 games now, is that Ryo is a naive, reckless and overly-eager novice martial artist who throws himself into situations he cannot handle time and again. He consistently bemoans putting the time and effort into his training, he is always looking for shortcuts and is constantly asking grandmasters to teach him decades worth of martial arts knowledge in 5 minutes so he can take on one of the most powerful martial artists in the world in Lan Di.

Just because he beat up a few Yellow Head thugs and Dou Niu in Shenmue II, it does not mean he's now capable of taking on every martial artist of all styles and strengths.
 
I was thinking that Lan Di/Chi You Men didn’t know that Ryo had the mirror yet. Sure, Chai knew and could’ve told them, but if he did, why weren’t the thugs in Bailu ever told “hey, that guy that keeps messing with you, he has the mirror.”
 
Could it be that Ren tricked Ryo by buying 2 fake mirrors.
One fake for Niao Sun, one fake in the fire and the real one in his pocket?


Niao Sun would never burn Lan Di if she did not had the Dragon mirror in her possesion.

If she has both mirror then she has the map to the treasure... Im pretty sure Ren pulled a trick on us, or atleast Yu has the opertunity to pull that on us in any case
 
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