Impressions on the plot and the ending (only read if you finished the game)

Reading through this thread, i think a lot of us feel very similarly.

I loved 90% of the game. The last hour really is disappointing though.
Yes! I was having so much fun up until that point. When collecting the 5000 yuan for the scroll I was excited thinking "now we're finally gonna get to the meat and potatoes parts of the story!" and then I get to Master Bei and realize "oh shit this game is about to end and virtually nothing has happened yet". And then the castle area made it even worse by answering no questions and ending us, story-wise, basically in the same place we were 20 years ago. The fact that it answered literally none of the burning questions and actually introduced a couple crazy new ones is baffling. Yu and Cedric better have a giant rabbit to pull out of their collective hat in the form of an amazing sequel because ending the series like this is worse than if we were eternally stuck in the cave.
 
Just finished the game after 52hours.
I loved every moment apart from THE LAST FUCKING HOUR OF THE GAME!!

What the hell was that!!!?
What an absolute rushed mess!!!.
Honestly, I'm sat here.. like.. from the moment we entered the castle it was just awful.

They build it all up with this epic scene of a band of fighters coming together (which I don't understand as they barely knew you and were obviously travelling to what most people would assume would be their deaths).
First thing on arrival.. fetching some fucking plates for a pawnbroker?.. Wow.. talk about a mood killer.
We then get some badly placed/timed humour by looking into the cells.
Another lacklustre Chai battle.
Enter boring new main enemy reveal.
Fight a few weak enemies, okay that's fine, I liked knocking them about like ragdolls.
Then another group of enemies to kill, that's fine.
A bunch of cut scenes featuring characters I barely interacted with (including drama killing humour).
Boss of Red Snakes... fine.. but another dull quick fight.
Then what the hell was with the next group of enemies who looked liked like they are part of a make a wish foundation to be in the game!!!?.
We get to see Lan Di, with 3 of the other Chi Yu Men I presume.. who.. well.. quick 2 button QTE, done.
Add another tension killing joke with Ren kicking one of them in the face.
At last... Lan Di... 18 years I've waited to take this guy down.. then he opens his mouth... wtf kind of voice is THAT!?.
Sure, I get to see him in action in a burning castle, great.. and then.. well.. just the rest of it.
What the actual fuck happened?.. the game was so perfect up to this final Castle Storm and then it just... Jesus fucking Christ!.

Am I the only one!?.
I agree with everything besides the Ren kick to face, that shit made me laugh harder than anything else in the game because it fit the character, and that guy he wrecked straight up looked and acted like something out of a Bruce Lee film crossed with a Steven Seagul film.
 
I laughed, but I felt it was out of place in what should have been one of the most intense moments in the series since the opening scene in Shenmue 1.
I honestly wish I'd never got on the damn boat, I'd have been happier had the game ended there.
 
Everyone talking like the story was great up until the last segment of the game. Yeah, the last part was a complete mess and the story really took a nosedive there, but there were storytelling and pacing problemse throughout the game.

Honestly, Bailu is where the storytelling is the most competent, and even then it's got some pacing issues. But, it's also the closest the game gets to the quality of the previous games in terms of story. The interactions with Shenhua, the reveals about Iwao and the mirrors, the awesome interrogation segment where the thug reveals quite a bit of information, and the finale with the tower are all in line with what we've come to expect from storytelling in Shenmue. It gives me hope that Yu and his writer still know how to properly tell a story with enough resources.
 
Where in the blue hell did u get the idea that Niao Sun would be stronger than Lan Di?

I don't know. Maybe the fact that she's one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men and had been in promotional material since Shenmue 1 and we had yet to see her until this installment? Based on that, I don't believe its outside the realm of possibility that Yu Suzuki or the developers intend her to be equally or more powerful. Interesting you only fixated on the more powerful part and ignored that I also said equally.

She also could be weaker than Lan Di, that's fine. I just don't think if Ryo can't so much as get a lick on Lan Di that he should even be able to defeat Niao Sun like a couple folks have said. That would mean her skills are greatly below Lan Di.
 
I don't know. Maybe the fact that she's one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men and had been in promotional material since Shenmue 1 and we had yet to see her until this installment? Based on that, I don't believe its outside the realm of possibility that Yu Suzuki or the developers intend her to be equally or more powerful. Interesting you only fixated on the more powerful part and ignored that I also said equally.

She also could be weaker than Lan Di, that's fine. I just don't think if Ryo can't so much as get a lick on Lan Di that he should even be able to defeat Niao Sun like a couple folks have said. That would mean her skills are greatly below Lan Di.

Fair points also the fact she’s challenging Lan Di for control of Chi You Men indicate supreme confidence in her skills (combat or otherwise) and I thought it was the most interesting story development in Shenmue 3. That there appears to be internal battle going on and makes me wonder what involvement other leaders will have and Ziming potential involvement too.
 
Regarding Zhu Yuanda, in this Shenmue Master interview from 2013, Suzuki says that Zhu lies to protect his friends (7:00):


What specifically Zhu was lying about, we can only guess at this stage 🤷‍♂️

I don't know. Maybe the fact that she's one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men and had been in promotional material since Shenmue 1 and we had yet to see her until this installment? Based on that, I don't believe its outside the realm of possibility that Yu Suzuki or the developers intend her to be equally or more powerful. Interesting you only fixated on the more powerful part and ignored that I also said equally.

She also could be weaker than Lan Di, that's fine. I just don't think if Ryo can't so much as get a lick on Lan Di that he should even be able to defeat Niao Sun like a couple folks have said. That would mean her skills are greatly below Lan Di.

I always got the impression from interviews that Niao Sun's strength was supposed to lie in her seduction and manipulation rather than hand-to-hand combat, but we can't really say after this game.
 
I don't know. Maybe the fact that she's one of the four leaders of the Chi You Men and had been in promotional material since Shenmue 1 and we had yet to see her until this installment? Based on that, I don't believe its outside the realm of possibility that Yu Suzuki or the developers intend her to be equally or more powerful. Interesting you only fixated on the more powerful part and ignored that I also said equally.

She also could be weaker than Lan Di, that's fine. I just don't think if Ryo can't so much as get a lick on Lan Di that he should even be able to defeat Niao Sun like a couple folks have said. That would mean her skills are greatly below Lan Di.
Nah I think this is part of the fault of the weak story in Shenmue 3; the fact that you don't believe Ryo should be able to defeat a Chi You Men leader after 3 games, Shenmue 3 should've been the game Ryo get's to the level of at least the weakest Chi You Men leader which I assumed would be Niao Sun. In Bailu Village Ryo should've trained heavily with Grandmasters like his father did before him, to make it believable that Ryo could defeat a Chi You Men leader. More emphasis should've been on his training and leveling up. A game where they've given you the ability to change clothes there should've been a cutscene where Ryo changes into the traditional Chinese Gi and go on a few Kung Fu missions; catching chickens and buying 2000 dollar alcohol was not enough, we needed to learn far more moves from grandmasters, not just the Body Checks you can't even do in actual combat. You should've had to fight the Grandmasters after the training missions and if you could not defeat them you could not progress the story. All these would've made it believable that Ryo could beat at least Niao Sun, you could even make it that he got lucky. But as a video game this game needed a final boss of significance, never in a million years would I have guessed Mr Muscles would be Shenmue 3's final boss. He's a disc one villain at best on par with Tony and Smith in Shenmue 1. We needed a big win for Ryo like Niao Sun even if he just got lucky or he needed Ren and Shenhua's help to defeat her.
 
@DoubleO_Ren ok I pose the opposite question to you then. What ever gave you the idea that Niao Sun was the weakest Chi You Men leader?

I understand why you felt Ryo needed to defeat someone other than a thug as a final boss but if you're ok with Ryo not even being able to land a hit on Lan Di, and I'll keep going back to this, then you're jobbing out Niao Sun in her first appearance after all these years of her being hyped up. See to me after all that build up I feel like you'd have a lot of fans annoyed she got dispatched so quickly after all these years of anticipation for her.

I like where your head is at in terms of the training but then I would've suggested Ziming be built up during the game and be the final boss as he would be reasonably weaker than the leaders of the Chi You Men and he would be an extension of the Xiuying plot thread while also being an upgrade from the cronies we faced in 1 and 2.

Frankly I'm not sure I would want Ziming jobbed out early in the series either but at least it would be more believable to me on a skill power level and there's more narrative room for him to reappear in the series despite losing.
 
The amount of people saying they are annoyed that they didn’t find much more about sunming zhao and ryo. Does it not make sense for that to be revealed in meng cun where the supposed death happened ?

I think some people have really misunderstood where shenmue 3 is in the overall narrative. It’s about ryos growth as a martial artist and his relationship with shenhua that’s all. Suzuki said time and time again shenmue 3 will be looking inward so when people are expecting massive narrative plot dumps it was never going to happen.
 
I think some people have really misunderstood where shenmue 3 is in the overall narrative. It’s about ryos growth as a martial artist and his relationship with shenhua that’s all. Suzuki said time and time again shenmue 3 will be looking inward so when people are expecting massive narrative plot dumps it was never going to happen.

I still think that some extra narrative framework - that is looking into the future - should have been provided.
Or even if we do not get a lot of new info about the backstory, there could have been some narrative framework to the tasks that Ryo needs to do. For example, in Shenmue 2, the introduction of the Chawan Sign was a brilliant idea. It was a plot device but we could also use it to get random encounters, And there were multiple paths to learning something new.
And the same could have been done with the training. Maybe if you have horse horse stance on a higher level, the drunken master guy asks you to do one inch punches... or I don't know.

Also, the Shenhua - Ryo relationship building was pretty much dumped in Chobu. Shenhua stopped accompanying us, she did not get us any extra info, etc.
And this behavior is completely out of character for her. It was her first time outside of Bailu, she was scared, so instead of going out on her own, she should have stayed with Ryo for a day or two to get used to this environment. This whole narrative framework was missing (also with Ren, his sudden arrival was not explained either).

My biggest disappointment was the missing narrative reward in the game, for example, I remember replaying the Dou Niu fight in Kowloon just to get the six-minute explanation given by Zhu Yuanda (and his six minutes provided more info about the story than the full of Shenmue 3). Anyway, it feels like Mass Effect 3 again, but this time, my heart hurts even more knowing that the story may never be finished if things go on like this. :-/
 
Yes! I was having so much fun up until that point. When collecting the 5000 yuan for the scroll I was excited thinking "now we're finally gonna get to the meat and potatoes parts of the story!" and then I get to Master Bei and realize "oh shit this game is about to end and virtually nothing has happened yet". And then the castle area made it even worse by answering no questions and ending us, story-wise, basically in the same place we were 20 years ago. The fact that it answered literally none of the burning questions and actually introduced a couple crazy new ones is baffling. Yu and Cedric better have a giant rabbit to pull out of their collective hat in the form of an amazing sequel because ending the series like this is worse than if we were eternally stuck in the cave.
I felt the same way. I just finished about 10 min ago and I am at a loss for words. I was loving, LOVING every moment of the game. I spent probably 25 hours on Bailu and a similar amount in Chobu (the Rose Garden fights were awesome to beat - I just was annoyed that I did it so early and when I had to go there for the story, the announcer acted like it was my first time). I even had the money for both the alcohol and scroll when they were introduced. However, once I saw that it was time for the castle, I got super bummed. I went to bed last night after the boat ride to save it for today. I had heard it was a short, disappointing finale, so I wanted to at least savor it a little. I guess I just still had my expectations too high.

My main issue with the game is that the story was too similar in both Bailu and Chobu. I also expected the Lan Di confrontation to be about halfway through the game, as Ryo clearly would not have the skills to beat him. We meet him shortly after arriving in Chobu, get whupped but rescue Yuan, learn a bit more, follow him to where ever, then credits. We could have had a fantastic story with just Bailu and Chobu, but it ultimately felt like the game ended halfway through. From the stories about Shenmue 1’s development, I think it’s clear that Suzuki-san is not the best with planning, so that probably had an impact.

Overall, I’d hesitate to score Shenmue 3 numerically as a whole, but I can divide it up. Bailu was such a great experience, and there’s not much I can complain about there. It was like Yokosuka 2.0, and I honestly think we could have had an entire game in that area if it were expanded a bit. Bailu was easily a 9 or 10 for me.

Chobu was definitely where the cracks started to show for me. Not enough story, too few interactions with Shenhua and especially Ren. I loved the town’s design, but the lack of NPCs was more apparent here. I also didn’t care for how things got gated off. Master Bei didn’t have the same development as Sun, and I think more time should have been spent on him, Hsu, and the shrine maiden (I forgot her name already - pretty design, though). Overall, I’d give it a 7.

Castle area was just not necessary, and I don’t even want to score it. It should not have been included.

My personal feeling is that in terms of non-story content, mechanics, and general “feel,” they nailed the game. The mini games, new training methods, the way new moves still get better animations as they level up, the dialogue options with Shenhua, etc, was all fantastic. It is the basis for an amazing game. However, I think Suzuki-san can get sidetracked easily during development, and his insistence at incorporating every possible “Shenmue-esque” feature took time away from developing the story.

I have no doubt that his original outline for the game would have blown us all away and eliminated the majority of our concerns. But have you ever been writing a paper and as the deadline/page limit approached, you realize you have to narrow the scope? And then you end up having to cut down more than just the ending because now certain elements throughout the paper make no sense within the smaller context. But you are left with have no time to flesh out the existing concepts and you end up with something that feels shallow. I think that’s what happened here. The game should have had a smaller scope from the beginning, rather than a large one that got reduced.

In conclusion, 80% of the game was a 9 or 10/10 for me, with the rest dragging the experience down. If the game aimed to just have Bailu and Chobu, it would have been fantastic. I am still overjoyed with what we got, however.
 
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@DoubleO_Ren ok I pose the opposite question to you then. What ever gave you the idea that Niao Sun was the weakest Chi You Men leader?

I understand why you felt Ryo needed to defeat someone other than a thug as a final boss but if you're ok with Ryo not even being able to land a hit on Lan Di, and I'll keep going back to this, then you're jobbing out Niao Sun in her first appearance after all these years of her being hyped up. See to me after all that build up I feel like you'd have a lot of fans annoyed she got dispatched so quickly after all these years of anticipation for her.

I like where your head is at in terms of the training but then I would've suggested Ziming be built up during the game and be the final boss as he would be reasonably weaker than the leaders of the Chi You Men and he would be an extension of the Xiuying plot thread while also being an upgrade from the cronies we faced in 1 and 2.

Frankly I'm not sure I would want Ziming jobbed out early in the series either but at least it would be more believable to me on a skill power level and there's more narrative room for him to reappear in the series despite losing.
I actually agree with you Ziming, Niao Sun it doesn't matter, but Ryo needed a better boss than Mr Muscles that's for sure. I'm shocked we didn't even hear a peep about Ziming. This game should've been about losing to Lan DI, getting manipulated and our hearts broken by Niao Sun and overcoming and "talk no jutsu-ing" Ziming. Shenmue 4 could be taking out Niao Sun and another Chi You Men leader and Shenmue 5 taking out Lan DI and Tentei, perhaps Ren dies in Shenmue 5. Im honestly starting to think Yu deliberately made Shenmue 3 "filler" cos he's secretly got a bigger budget for Shenmue 4 and wants to put all the cool rising action and story stuff in that. Tin foil hat I know.
 
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I actually agree with you Ziming, Niao Sun it doesn't matter, but Ryo needed a better boss than Mr Muscles that's for sure. I'm shocked we didn't even hear a peep about Ziming. This game should've been about losing to Lan DI, getting manipulated and our hearts broken by Niao Sun and overcoming and "talk no jutsu-ing" Ziming. Shenmue 4 could be taking out Niao Sun and another Chi You Men leader and Shenmue 5 taking out Lan DI and Tentei, perhaps Ren dies in Shenmue 5. Im honestly starting to think Yu deliberately made Shenmue 3 "filler" cos he's secretly got a bigger budget for Shenmue 4 and wants to put all the cool rising action and story stuff in that. Tim foil hat I know.

May your tin foil hat be as strong as steel then. Hope if we can get Shenmue IV he can deliver something substantial story wise for the fans.
 
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Im honestly starting to think Yu deliberately made Shenmue 3 "filler" cos he's secretly got a bigger budget for Shenmue 4 and wants to put all the cool rising action and story stuff in that. Tin foil hat I know.

I was thinking the same thing, except It was DS deliberately holding back on the story elements. The KS goals changed when the "big" companies stepped in with extra funding.
With our tin foil hats on- Maybe with the way the story was withheld in 3 is how Yu was able to get definite funding for S4.

Also I loved the last hour of the game.
Yes, it would have been nice to fight those dudes before sparing with Lan di. But the build up to Mr muscles was fucking awesome.

It would have been great to get more of the storybout there but I stand by my tin foil hat comment.
 
I was thinking the same thing, except It was DS deliberately holding back on the story elements. The KS goals changed when the "big" companies stepped in with extra funding.
With our tin foil hats on- Maybe with the way the story was withheld in 3 is how Yu was able to get definite funding for S4.

Also I loved the last hour of the game.
Yes, it would have been nice to fight those dudes before sparing with Lan di. But the build up to Mr muscles was fucking awesome.

It would have been great to get more of the storybout there but I stand by my tin foil hat comment.

Mr Muscles had so little characterization and had so little impact on the plot, that the impact wasn’t felt when you beat him.

Also, the ending was way too video gamey IMO, to say nothing of the story.
 
Mr Muscles had so little characterization and had so little impact on the plot, that the impact wasn’t felt when you beat him.

Also, the ending was way too video gamey IMO, to say nothing of the story.

Right on about Mr Muscles. If we had simply gotten a motivation on why he wants to maintain a relationship with the Chi You Men or that he had a goal it would go a long way.
 
I was thinking the same thing, except It was DS deliberately holding back on the story elements. The KS goals changed when the "big" companies stepped in with extra funding.
With our tin foil hats on- Maybe with the way the story was withheld in 3 is how Yu was able to get definite funding for S4.

Also I loved the last hour of the game.
Yes, it would have been nice to fight those dudes before sparing with Lan di. But the build up to Mr muscles was fucking awesome.

It would have been great to get more of the storybout there but I stand by my tin foil hat comment.

No one held anything back, if a deep silver manager even tried to propose that he would have been fired on the spot.
 
No one held anything back, if a deep silver manager even tried to propose that he would have been fired on the spot.

We dont know that. We dont even know how much money was really given to the project outside of KS. The 10-15 million estimate doesn't cut it for me.
Unless you have connections with YsNet or DS @Shenhua-Nani? . If you do, give us the lowdown. 😉

The KS money could have been for S3. While the DS money could have been 30% for S3 %70 for S4.?.?
When DS came into the picture with more money they do have a right to put their two cents in. Especially if they are funding a potential Project. No one gives millions of dollars and gives free reign. Thats not how business works.

Keep in mind this is all speculation.

Mr Muscles had so little characterization and had so little impact on the plot, that the impact wasn’t felt when you beat him.

Also, the ending was way too video gamey IMO, to say nothing of the story.

Mr Muscles was a middle man, a small gang leader. Hired to do a job with the possiblity to join a bigger organization. He and the red sneaks aren't a big deal and a small blip in the story.


I understand your stance on the ending and the story development in general. Which I agree with but I still loved the way it progressed IMO. I would have loved a more, sure. But am happy with my experience and look forward to the dlc and what S4 will bring.
 
Why would Deepsilver hold the story back if it was going to affect sales and the future of the series?
 
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