Impressions on the plot and the ending (only read if you finished the game)

Gjb1985 said:
The blind fanboy is strong with this one. I was a shenmue fanboy for 2 decades, but after this sorry excuse of a game, no more.
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Nah, I'm not. You can check my older posts if you'd like, I was fully expecting Shenmue III to be a complete fucking disaster lol.

I ended up loving the game. Sorry if that upsets you mate.
 
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i just finished and i have to say i really enjoyed it, it wasn't perfect, i didnt like the stamina system and the end did feel rushed but as a whole i enjoyed it more than ive enjoyed a game for a long time. people reviewing the game with 5's and 6's is a huge shame because i think it deserves more than that.

ive seen it said that shenmue 3 is more like shenmue 2.5 and id agree with that statement, theres definitely an air of "heres what we could do with a small budget, see you next time!". Chilling out and embracing the game for a few hours a day and not rushing through the story is definitely the way to play it, its a slow burn, i could understand people not being happy if they rushed through and didnt get chance to take it all in as there really isnt much story.

it would be a tragedy if we didnt get to finish the story and hopefully sales are enough and it will be cheap enough to make the 4th
 
Yea shenmue 3 feels like an intermission for me, story is flat because u can tell budget was too low to actually drive it and expand it. The side characters prob had more story on paper but couldn’t fit it in the game. If shenmue 4 story is light like this one I may not want another one tbh, they need a publisher to give them at least 15 mil
 
Gevaudian said:
it would be a tragedy if we didnt get to finish the story and hopefully sales are enough and it will be cheap enough to make the 4th
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Absolutely, I did enjoy Shenmue 3 and by all means I'll buy story DLC, however after playing 25 hours and hitting such a rushed ending, I would totally prefer a fourth game not being handled by these devs. Just imagine how wonderful it could had been if properly fleshed out!
 
I feel unless they re-do that last part, flesh it out and expand on it and clean it up... I can't say I'm looking forward to Shenmue 4.

Perhaps the whole castle siege could be redone as the start of Shenmue 4...
 
My guess would be that Baisha getting cut harmed the ending a lot. The end of the game shows the great wall area 1574875933588.png

but this was supposed to be the part of the game where we originally were supposed to fight Muscles.

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Yu mentioned that the Baisha part of the game would be like warring kingdoms, where we'd have to use strategy to outwit the chiyoumen. If I could guess, I think the siege of the castle replaced this part of the game but who knows? Niao Sun's part needed to be fleshed out way more and we learned nothing about Muscles and the red snake's connection to the chiyoumen. At least in Bailu village we learned a little about Yanglang and Chai's role.

I still don't understand why fat guy and broom girl risked their lives to help Ryo. I didn't feel any connection to them, so it just makes Ren's recruitment of them even more bizarre. This is seemingly chiyoumen/red snake HQ and a girl with a broom is beating the crap out of them while the fat guy is knocking people out with a light push. Then we have that Sephiroth-looking guy who gets one-shotted by Ren. If you're the damn bodyguard of Lan Di I'm expecting you to be incredibly dangerous. I can't help comparing this part of the game to the raid of the yellow head building and feeling underwhelmed. I was expecting this part of the game to be similar in scale, thought I'd have to overcome a ridiculous amount of trials to get to Lan Di but nope, a quick QTE with Chai and defeat a few fodders and you've reached him.

Lan Di is supposed to be merciless, yet he agreed to spare Ryo in exchange for the mirror. He didn't have to do any such deal, he could have just killed Ren and took it. Ren was in no position to bargain here. Then Ren totally disrespects him by throwing the mirror but Lan Di doesn't give a damn for some reason and lets Ren and Ryo slide out of the castle. Very odd. I did like how they remained faithful to Lan Di's fighting style (walking, hands behind his back, etc) he looked like a total badass but that's the only positive I could pull from it.

The stamina system didn't bother me too much until the end, when a random vendor was situated beneath the castle, along with a bunch of fruits and vegetables. It made me realize that the need for food will inevitably lead to random shops being situated in boss areas. I wasn't too wild on the fetch and carry quest we had to do to get to the area where Yuan was being held captive, either.
 
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chaikilla said:
Then we have that Sephiroth-looking guy who gets one-shotted by Ren. If you're the damn bodyguard of Lan Di I'm expecting you to be incredibly dangerous. I can't help comparing this part of the game to the raid of the yellow head building and feeling underwhelmed. I was expecting this part of the game to be similar in scale
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THIS. Shenmue 3 is supposed to be "by fans for fans" and Yu must've known the parallels to the Yellowhead building would be unavoidable. If Baisha had to be cut for budget then the budget was mismanaged because I certainly didn't see anything "essential" happen in Niaowu until the castle.

chaikilla said:
Lan Di is supposed to be merciless, yet he agreed to spare Ryo in exchange for the mirror. He didn't have to do any such deal, he could have just killed Ren and took it. Ren was in no position to bargain here. Then Ren totally disrespects him by throwing the mirror but Lan Di doesn't give a damn for some reason and lets Ren and Ryo slide out of the castle. Very odd.
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This, and many other S3 story issues, are what make me think the problem is with Suzuki and the story he's telling (or at least how he's telling it) rather than anything to do with budget. I'm not sure how much you know about game development but it's very expensive to model, texture, rig, and animate 3 unique character models (Lan Di's bodyguards) so for them to waste their time on what amounts to a joke before Ryo's first confrontation with Lan Di is incredibly concerning. Hell, the fat guy himself is a re-purposed model. Major red flags.
 
chaikilla said:
My guess would be that Baisha getting cut harmed the ending a lot. The end of the game shows the great wall area View attachment 5986

but this was supposed to be the part of the game where we originally were supposed to fight Muscles.

View attachment 5987

Yu mentioned that the Baisha part of the game would be like warring kingdoms, where we'd have to use strategy to outwit the chiyoumen. If I could guess, I think the siege of the castle replaced this part of the game but who knows? Niao Sun's part needed to be fleshed out way more and we learned nothing about Muscles and the red snake's connection to the chiyoumen. At least in Bailu village we learned a little about Yanglang and Chai's role.

I still don't understand why fat guy and broom girl risked their lives to help Ryo. I didn't feel any connection to them, so it just makes Ren's recruitment of them even more bizarre. This is seemingly chiyoumen/red snake HQ and a girl with a broom is beating the crap out of them while the fat guy is knocking people out with a light push. Then we have that Sephiroth-looking guy who gets one-shotted by Ren. If you're the damn bodyguard of Lan Di I'm expecting you to be incredibly dangerous. I can't help comparing this part of the game to the raid of the yellow head building and feeling underwhelmed. I was expecting this part of the game to be similar in scale, thought I'd have to overcome a ridiculous amount of trials to get to Lan Di but nope, a quick QTE with Chai and defeat a few fodders and you've reached him.

Lan Di is supposed to be merciless, yet he agreed to spare Ryo in exchange for the mirror. He didn't have to do any such deal, he could have just killed Ren and took it. Ren was in no position to bargain here. Then Ren totally disrespects him by throwing the mirror but Lan Di doesn't give a damn for some reason and lets Ren and Ryo slide out of the castle. Very odd.
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I agree with you on a lot of this but Lan Di wants the Phoenix mirror more than he wants to kill Ryo. Yes, he was about to kill Ryo before Ren intervened but only because Ryo wanted to kill him. Lan Di just wants him out of the way. When he sees the Phoenix mirror his attention is immediately diverted to it and Ryo becomes an afterthought.
 
chaikilla said:
I still don't understand why fat guy and broom girl risked their lives to help Ryo. I didn't feel any connection to them, so it just makes Ren's recruitment of them even more bizarre.
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So I went to both of those characters A LOT because I wanted to fill my notebook. Every new redline in my notebook I ran around to see if they had any meaningful information, and actually much like how Shenmue 1 depended on the player to check on supporting characters, the two characters mention things to fill in the blanks on their developing relationships, particularly Shiling. You learn that she's been in contact with Ren and that they both talk about Ryo, she shows a constant eagerness to assist Ryo against the Red Snakes etc. So in regards to my experience it made sense that she was a friend and someone to be recruited by Ren and it didn't feel "undercooked" for me.

However, this is why they really needed to do a couple more cutscenes with someone like Shiling. At least the story makes you go to the big guy a few times, but the developers can't expect every player to check in with these characters especially with a stamina system. This was my problem with the way Shenmue 1's story developed as well. See Shenmue 2 understood that and ensured that all players got the key cutscenes to make the narrative flow well. It should've been done here too.
 
Plot? .. What plot??

I spent over 40 hours on this, and for what? That final hour has completely changed my view of the game. Bailu was really the only decent area of the game. Niaowu was a chore for me and lacking in that Shenmue atmosphere that bailu managed to capture.

I dunno man, the ending has really changed my view on the game at the moment
 
I Got Sriracha In My DNA said:
So I went to both of those characters A LOT because I wanted to fill my notebook. Every new redline in my notebook I ran around to see if they had any meaningful information, and actually much like how Shenmue 1 depended on the player to check on supporting characters, the two characters mention things to fill in the blanks on their developing relationships, particularly Shiling. You learn that she's been in contact with Ren and that they both talk about Ryo, she shows a constant eagerness to assist Ryo against the Red Snakes etc. So in regards to my experience it made sense that she was a friend and someone to be recruited by Ren and it didn't feel "undercooked" for me.

However, this is why they really needed to do a couple more cutscenes with someone like Shiling. At least the story makes you go to the big guy a few times, but the developers can't expect every player to check in with these characters especially with a stamina system. This was my problem with the way Shenmue 1's story developed as well. See Shenmue 2 understood that and ensured that all players got the key cutscenes to make the narrative flow well. It should've been done here too.
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I got those conversations too. I strongly agree with your point on cutscenes being needed to emphasize their relationships more. I had a few conversations with Niao Sun too but only towards the end when I started to twig that she was an important npc. I totally forgot about her until just before she kidnaps Shenhua. Before that, I (we?) saw her twice. Once, at the start of Niaowu, where it was shoved in our faces that she and the fisherman were important characters and second, when she points us in the direction of the red snakes. I was actually wondering where the hell she went after that because Shenhua speaks about her on the balcony and it's clear that she was important. I really expected her to appear in more cutscenes but she just disappeared until red snakes hideout. The plot twist of her being disguise didn't have much of an impact because we didn't know who the hell she was up until then. No relationship with her was built.
 
I Got Sriracha In My DNA said:
So I went to both of those characters A LOT because I wanted to fill my notebook. Every new redline in my notebook I ran around to see if they had any meaningful information, and actually much like how Shenmue 1 depended on the player to check on supporting characters, the two characters mention things to fill in the blanks on their developing relationships, particularly Shiling. You learn that she's been in contact with Ren and that they both talk about Ryo, she shows a constant eagerness to assist Ryo against the Red Snakes etc. So in regards to my experience it made sense that she was a friend and someone to be recruited by Ren and it didn't feel "undercooked" for me.

However, this is why they really needed to do a couple more cutscenes with someone like Shiling. At least the story makes you go to the big guy a few times, but the developers can't expect every player to check in with these characters especially with a stamina system. This was my problem with the way Shenmue 1's story developed as well. See Shenmue 2 understood that and ensured that all players got the key cutscenes to make the narrative flow well. It should've been done here too.
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One thing I was thinking about that was lacking from the first and the second was the random events that would occur from being at the right place at the right time. There were too many occasions in the Niaowu where rather than giving you the option to go home automatically it just forced you to return home til the next day, even if you were only at mid-afternoon at the time, and if rather than doing that it had let you spend the rest of the day doing what you want and using random events at time to basically flesh out the relationships then it would have a far greater impact when they turned up. Realistically, Joy and Wong don't actually do that much in Shenmue 2, but they are involved in enough events that you can learn enough about them to feel some sort of attachment
 
chaikilla said:
I got those conversations too. I strongly agree with your point on cutscenes being needed to emphasize their relationships more. I had a few conversations with Niao Sun too but only towards the end when I started to twig that she was an important npc. I totally forgot about her until just before she kidnaps Shenhua. Before that, I (we?) saw her twice. Once, at the start of Niaowu, where it was shoved in our faces that she and the fisherman were important characters and second, when she points us in the direction of the red snakes. I was actually wondering where the hell she went after that because Shenhua speaks about her on the balcony and it's clear that she was important. I really expected her to appear in more cutscenes but she just disappeared until red snakes hideout. The plot twist of her being disguise didn't have much of an impact because we didn't know who the hell she was up until then. No relationship with her was built.
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Where did you find Li Feng beyond those 2 early scenes? I actually forgot about her then ran into her much later at the table on the lower floor of the Prize Exchange building by the Golden Goose. Is she always there or did you bump into her at other places?
 
I Got Sriracha In My DNA said:
Where did you find Li Feng beyond those 2 early scenes? I actually forgot about her then ran into her much later at the table on the lower floor of the Prize Exchange building by the Golden Goose. Is she always there or did you bump into her at other places?
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Prize exchange lower floor. She mentions that Ryo is Japanese and he's searching for something.
 
The plot and the ending are the worst parts of the game.

For me, Shenmue is about martial arts and Ryo's growth within. That's why Shenmue 1&2 were incredible. There's nothing in Shen3 near a bit to the developement of Ryo, under Lishao Tao.
My Shenmue 3 storyline would be something like this:
- The cave could be used a lot more. At least, for anything new and interesting abou Yuan. Maybe other room or switch.
- The plot in Bailu would be towards finding Yuan and knowing more about the mirror and Iwao and Zhao.
- The size of Bailu would be the same.
- Several encounters with the Red Snakes would happen.
- Master Feng and Master Sun would be teaching some martial arts values to Ryo. Master talking about Iwao and Zhao. That mark on the tree, is due a move Iwao was practing, wich Master Feng teaches Ryo, the same fashion as Jiamin did with the Iron Palm. (is not a powerfull move but adds to the storline. I believe its way better training with the npcs than buying scrolls.)
- As days gone by, Ryo faces the leader of the Red Snakes. He loses. Needs to rest.
- We play as Shenhua now. Just a small part. We are introduced to herb collecting.
- Ryo is healed and needs to improve his skills.
- Ryo have some funny scenes with Shenhua, with the animals at the house. Ryo learns to milk a cow. Is possible to collect eggs, fruits at the trees and milk for selling.
- Ryo starts to feel strange about the Shenmue tree. We had some scenes about this.
- In another encounter with the thugs, Ryo sees Master Sun doing the BodyCheck. Mrs Sun makes the hell to Ryo for the teaching of the move.

This is a just a daydream.
But this would be a lot better.
Now we know the game, its easy. But for me, this would be more "Shenmue".
- Bailu story extended with deep characters developing, stories, backgrounds.
- Not so many skillbooks.
- Not so many gachas.
- More searching roons and puzzles.
- Choubu cut by 30% of its size for more npcs and story extended with deep characters developing, stories, backgrounds

That would do it for me. Actually, if they kept the Shenmue 2 scope, with more NPCs and more storytelling oriented job, that would be awsome.
I just feel sorry for them. I really hoped Shenmue 3 to be a masterpiece.
 
The most criminal thing about the ending is the handling of Niao Sun.

I've only now started looking at pre-launch promotional stuff and judging by her pictures you'd think she'd be the main villain of the game. I played at such a casual pace that each night upon finishing I was legit thinking "oh gee, I still haven't met Niao Sun, I must still have some ways to go!" I was expecting her to appear some time in Niaowu to allow her personality to grow in the story and build adversity with Ryo, maybe act as a foil to Shenhua's innocence.

Never happens.

Instead in the space of 10 minutes it goes from boom-there-she-is-lying-on-a-sofa to betraying Lan Di by burning down the building. Absolutely no time to establish her personality, no background on her role in the Chi You Men, no explanation of the dynamics between her and Lan Di.

It's a crying shame really because you know a lot of heart went into this game but it simply ran out of steam (and probably finance). It felt like more focus on placed on content and gameplay rather than delivery of the story, which ironically for a game, I think is Shenmue's biggest strength moreso than the gameplay.
 
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