Is Shenmue really a commercial failure?

BruceWayne911

BruceWayne911

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Shenmue II
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Yakuza Kiwami 2
With the Shenmue series currently in limbo again most gamers would tell you that Shenmue as a series was a commercial failure. IMO the Shenmue series is a success.

Upon Shenmue initial release it was met with mixed reviews. Some loved it others hated it. With that being said Shenmue sold relatively good considering Sega Dreamcast console sales. The real discrepancy here was the Dreamcast being a commercial failure. With Shenmue 1&2 budget being as big as it was the Dreamcast didn't have the industry footprint to be that successful.

Shenmue 2 didn't release everywhere worldwide. The US market had to wait and during that time the PS2 was destroying its competitors. After 15 years of limbo Shenmue 3 was announced and funded in 9hrs and went on to raise close to 8 million monies. Since then we've had Shenmue magazines, release of Shenmue 1&2, Shenmue documentary and anime.

From inside sources the anime performed better than originally thought but still got canceled. Shenmue has alot of things going for it but it just gain enough traction. To much time has pasted since its initial release and most gamers just feel out of place trying to play it. Shenmue lifespan has always been trying to fight uphill.

Shenmue 3 was a love letter to the fans and our dedication to helping him finish his story. Shenmue just needs one fair shake to get the best results possible. Shen as a series has been successful considering how much the series has had to endure.
 
Does not really matter if it was or not imo. Shenmue gained a huge cult following and it depends how you measure its success. I see some guy has made a documentary about its fanbase and what it means to people. If you think about it it got an anime series and the only other game to get a TV series was The Last of Us which is the greatest game of all time now according to poll made by a film magazine.
 
While there is obviously important context and circumstances around Shenmue as a whole, the reality from purely a commercial perspective is it was and continues to be a failure. If it wasn’t we would have got a Shenmue 4 already.

The question for prospective investors is with a small but diehard fan base is how do you monetize this and ensure you get a return from your investment. This is something I’m sure Suzuki and co have tried to answer in potential pitch meetings.
 
Well, the first 2 apparently were.
(Shenmue 1 sold around 1 million copies, which sounds like a big number, but when you consider that there were roughly 10M dreamcasts on the market, that number then translates into 90% of the user base NOT owning a copy….not very sexy.)

Not sure about the third one , but if memory serves, it apparently did not “underperform”? (or something to that extent)
It would be interesting to see some concrete sales numbers though, as I can’t imagine it being a total failure either.

As someone else stated, the series has a dedicated/cult-like following; IMO, the franchise will always move some units, especially if it becomes a multi-platform release.
 
code l name said:
While there is obviously important context and circumstances around Shenmue as a whole, the reality from purely a commercial perspective is it was and continues to be a failure. If it wasn’t we would have got a Shenmue 4 already.

The question for prospective investors is with a small but diehard fan base is how do you monetize this and ensure you get a return from your investment. This is something I’m sure Suzuki and co have tried to answer in potential pitch meetings.
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There are games that have put up similar numbers and they get to release sequels. The Kickstarter actually happened and it happened in record time. That speaks volumes. Our inside man at WB surrounding the anime had nothing but positive things to say about the anime and they still dropped it. It's almost like no matter what Shenmue does its always gonna be the black sheep. While the Shenmue series isn't a homerun its still a base hit IMO.
 
The problem nowadays is that too many businesses have incredibly unrealistic expectations about what is deemed a success. It's litereally impossible for everything to be successful. It could be argued that Shenmue is a "failure" if you're talking about pure numbers, but think about what else was released around that time; probably something like Tomb Raider Revelations sold more at the time, FIFA 2001 certainly did, but does anybody talk about those games anymore?

Shenmue remains in the public conciousness and as long as it's never forgotten, it will never be a failure by any other metric.
 
Imo Shenmue was a success in expectations, specialized media coverage (every single spanish magazine was at it feets), inffluence and also comercial but being its budget so unique at the time made it underperform.
MGS 5 didn't recovered costs iirc and calling it a commercial failure results me too narrow, no matter how much Konami CEO at the time thought it was.
It didn't helpeld that its target platform Dreamcast, the Voyager console: showcased, released like a rocketd and suddenly exploding due its matrix Sega bankruptcy.
Sega was the comercial failure, almost totally dissapeared and in a way it did as the major actionist is Sammy, division of Sony. Also looking at the scene from those days, Sega was somehow burning a absolute coolness status that was very hard to achieve and was practically Genesis/MegaDrive alone (globally speaking) and that demolition was completed in one console generation.
 
Seaman said:
Imo Shenmue was a success in expectations, specialized media coverage (every single spanish magazine was at it feets), inffluence and also comercial but being its budget so unique at the time made it underperform.
MGS 5 didn't recovered costs iirc and calling it a commercial failure results me too narrow, no matter how much Konami CEO at the time thought it was.
It didn't helpeld that its target platform Dreamcast, the Voyager console: showcased, released like a rocketd and suddenly exploding due its matrix Sega bankruptcy.
Sega was the comercial failure, almost totally dissapeared and in a way it did as the major actionist is Sammy, division of Sony. Also looking at the scene from those days, Sega was somehow burning a absolute coolness status that was very hard to achieve and was practically Genesis/MegaDrive alone (globally speaking) and that demolition was completed in one console generation.
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I agree Shenmue was already on a sinking ship. Most people aren't gonna spend hund5of dollars on a console that they know will be irrelevant in a few years. After the demise of the Dreamcast Shenmue never got another chance. Shenmue 3bdid good IMO but most gamers that were interested contributed to the Kickstarter instead of retail. I wish we had some numbers to compare to rate Shenmue 3 sales.
 
Seaman said:
Imo Shenmue was a success in expectations, specialized media coverage (every single spanish magazine was at it feets), inffluence and also comercial but being its budget so unique at the time made it underperform.
MGS 5 didn't recovered costs iirc and calling it a commercial failure results me too narrow, no matter how much Konami CEO at the time thought it was.
It didn't helpeld that its target platform Dreamcast, the Voyager console: showcased, released like a rocketd and suddenly exploding due its matrix Sega bankruptcy.
Sega was the comercial failure, almost totally dissapeared and in a way it did as the major actionist is Sammy, division of Sony. Also looking at the scene from those days, Sega was somehow burning a absolute coolness status that was very hard to achieve and was practically Genesis/MegaDrive alone (globally speaking) and that demolition was completed in one console generation.
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In regards to Shenmue being made then Sega did what Nintendidnt ever do
 
Shenmue was and is a victim of circumstance. It seems that the series is cursed...Shenmue I did very well, selling about 1.2 million copies, then Shenmue II was a victim of the Dreamcast's death and the Xbox exclusivity deal with SEGA. Rumors of Shenmue III on Xbox were swirling around prior to the merger with Sammy, and then Shenmue Online was announced and went into development hell after a lawsuit with the original developers and rumored poor working conditions with support studios...S

henmue Gai then comes along on mobile and ostensibly doesn't fare too well (but not too awful, as it is received updates for over a year). Shenmue III is announced and smashes records, but then suffers from poor Deep Silver marketing and unfair bashing and poor journalism from the get go (Sony is funding it, why pledge on KS?, Deep Silver teaser trailer with no facial expressions, Epic exclusivity, lack of KS updates, etc.).

Shenmue I & II releases with more bugs and glitches than it should ever have had, even though they mostly got patched out. Also has issues like lack of widescreen cutscenes at launch., garnering criticism from some. Shenmue III releases and is criticized for its "PS2 graffix lol" by blind fanboys, as well as its lack of story (reasonable discussions can be had on this subject). Shenmue The Animation comes and is apparently written off by at least the Warner Bros. side. And now here he are, almost three years since Shenmue III's release on Steam/GOG, and aout a year and a half after the premiere of the anime, with absolutely nothing news wise.

It seems we just can't win. Something is always against Shenmue.
 
Technically I don't believe. Think of all the assets Shenmue pioneered for Sega--they MUST have used plenty. Pretty damn sure background textures were used for Yakuza 1+2; some just look too familiar. There are assets used for VF4, presumably. Plus, the fact Suzuki literally created the basis of CRIware AFAIK (or some such 3D tool) which was licensed to even the original RE4 IIRC and however many other external studios...

Commercially, perhaps.

Thinking of the assets though, no. Especially when you consider a quote direct from Suuki saying he's never been in the red. Meaning: Hang-on, Afterburner, OutRun, Space Harrier, Virtua Fighter, etc made so much money even Shenmue's "failure" didn't actually erase all the profits he's gained for Sega as a whole.
 
24Nathan said:
It seems that the series is cursed...
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xatruio said:
Thinking of the assets though, no. Especially when you consider a quote direct from Suuki saying he's never been in the red. Meaning: Hang-on, Afterburner, OutRun, Space Harrier, Virtua Fighter, etc made so much money even Shenmue's "failure" didn't actually erase all the profits he's gained for Sega as a whole.
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Exactly, and not just his numbers. His status remains as the legend he is. This nonsense of con artist... Idk what some buddies think whats like Yu Suzuki searching funding, for example. It seems that some really believe he crawls over offices and gets bold "nopes" when he really makes very studied contacts making everyone nervous, excited just by the notion that soon theyre getting visited by YS. Even when the answer is "Sorry we can't/don't see this project" its made uttering the words and after serving him grapes and a red carpet.

The worst part has been passed, that was Yu-san getting burned after Sega fail in 2000-1.
 
We also have to take into account (and so should SEGA), that the first game alone wasn't supposed to be responsible for recouping all development costs alone...The intention was always to let multiple games release and recoup the costs through them. Pretty sure that was stated in an old IGNDC article/interview.
 
24Nathan said:
We also have to take into account (and so should SEGA), that the first game alone wasn't supposed to be responsible for recouping all development costs alone...The intention was always to let multiple games release and recoup the costs through them. Pretty sure that was stated in an old IGNDC article/interview.
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I honestly never knew that.
 
What bothers me the most is SEGA had its own Final Fantasy contender in the form of Shenmue

and the game was so overlooked

I mean, how could Shenmue lose to Final Fantasy X in those gamefaqs contests?

The only explanation is people played Final Fantasy X but only a minority played Shenmue

Its perfectly fine if someone has bad taste and prefer Final Fantasy X and Ocarina of Time over Shenmue, at least is justified by bad taste or an inability to understand things and preferring whats the most simple and affordable for their little minds

but ignorance is something that cant be passed

Shenmue was overlooked by the public even when it was mainstream

I see Nintendo fans praising Star Fox Adventures (which is complete garbage) at the same time they have no idea what Shenmue games are about

the same thing happens to a forgotten IP that received critical acclaim at the time and won several awards: The Operative: No One Lives Forever, a spy first person shooter that was miles ahead and better than stuff like Perfect Dark and its fake 9.9/10 IGN score

Shenmue and No One Lives Forever were victims of the circunstances

No One Lives Forever is also a masterpiece that was a commercial failure, it was developed to sell the LithTech engine to other studios, so it was a long term investment, NOLF2 even added ragdoll physics two years before Half Life 2 was released!

(NOLF1 is the better game, I strongly recommend it to Shenmue fans)

 
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Lets not fall into the trapt put by nowsdays of extreme and polarity, choosing FF (X or whatever) vs. Shenmue. I mean, of course our favourite is Shenmue but fitting FFX in this case into bad taste or lack of knowledge, feels like assuming something thats not what I sense. What works for me doesnt with the other person its what I get.
Shenmue has never been mainstream to me. Its a awkard game (said with affection) for awkard people (same) and those journalists praising the first two games where nerds, guys with the gamepads buttons molten with the skin.
No One Lives Forever, what a great Game. Its strange it hasn't made the comeback with all the revival and strong female main characters happening at the same time. And Die by the Sword, what a underrated title. Cutting (trying to mostly) limbs with the mouse, pre-Wii and Kinect tech.
 
Seaman said:
Lets not fall into the trapt put by nowsdays of extreme and polarity, choosing FF (X or whatever) vs. Shenmue. I mean, of course our favourite is Shenmue but fitting FFX in this case into bad taste or lack of knowledge, feels like assuming something thats not what I sense. What works for me doesnt with the other person its what I get.
Shenmue has never been mainstream to me. Its a awkard game (said with affection) for awkard people (same) and those journalists praising the first two games where nerds, guys with the gamepads buttons molten with the skin.
No One Lives Forever, what a great Game. Its strange it hasn't made the comeback with all the revival and strong female main characters happening at the same time. And Die by the Sword, what a underrated title. Cutting (trying to mostly) limbs with the mouse, pre-Wii and Kinect tech.
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NOLF is stuck in copyright hell because of issues between Monolith Productions (developer, who also made Shogo Mobile Armor Division) and WB Games (owner of Monolith since 2004) and Activision (a rival publisher) that purchased Sierra (original publisher of NOLF2) and Disney (who now owns the rights to FOX Interactive casting, publisher of NOLF1 who was directly involved in its production and lended real actors for the character faces and voice talent to act in NOLF, Btw NOLF1 voice acting is spectacular thanks to a bunch of fantastic actors thatwere grouped together by FOX)

And of course Miss Mitzi Martin who gave her face to Cate Archer

1688482371428.png

NOLF development is a very interesting story, Monolith was about to fill for bankruptcy after SHOGO failed, then they started their last game which was going to be a 007 inspired game, but EON and MGM saw it at E3 1999 and treated to sue for copyright and sent Monolith a letter to cease & desist the project but then Monolith decided to change the character to a female and FOX took over and helped with her design and provided voice talent

In the end NOLF was released in 2000 to critical acclaim and won awards, this helped Monolith to secure some contracts to develop licensed stuff such as Alien Vs Predator 2, Matrix Online and Tron 2.0 so in the end of the day the NOLF saved them and it remains their finest work

Unfortunately some of its charm was lost in the sequel because they had to change the voice actress for Cate and also changed her face

Being stuck to high end hardware (at the time) didnt helped too, but from what I know their goal was to use the game to promote and sell the LithTech engine for other developers

A lot in common with SEGA, Shenmue and the Dreamcast
 
Wong Shen said:
NOLF is stuck in copyright hell because of issues between Monolith Productions (developer, who also made Shogo Mobile Armor Division) and WB Games (owner of Monolith since 2004) and Activision (a rival publisher) that purchased Sierra (original publisher of NOLF2) and Disney (who now owns the rights to FOX Interactive casting, publisher of NOLF1 who was directly involved in its production and lended real actors for the character faces and voice talent to act in NOLF, Btw NOLF1 voice acting is spectacular thanks to a bunch of fantastic actors thatwere grouped together by FOX)

And of course Miss Mitzi Martin who gave her face to Cate Archer

View attachment 18455

NOLF development is a very interesting story, Monolith was about to fill for bankruptcy after SHOGO failed, then they started their last game which was going to be a 007 inspired game, but EON and MGM saw it at E3 1999 and treated to sue for copyright and sent Monolith a letter to cease & desist the project but then Monolith decided to change the character to a female and FOX took over and helped with her design and provided voice talent

In the end NOLF was released in 2000 to critical acclaim and won awards, this helped Monolith to secure some contracts to develop licensed stuff such as Alien Vs Predator 2, Matrix Online and Tron 2.0 so in the end of the day the NOLF saved them and it remains their finest work

Unfortunately some of its charm was lost in the sequel because they had to change the voice actress for Cate and also changed her face

Being stuck to high end hardware (at the time) didnt helped too, but from what I know their goal was to use the game to promote and sell the LithTech engine for other developers

A lot in common with SEGA, Shenmue and the Dreamcast
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I really didn't know about all of that. Mate, SHOGO... It was first sold here as usual retail and after failing it came for free with magazines or game bundles. But it was another decent shooter. Maybe with some indie price and indie publishing store back then, its performance could had been better.
Lots of nostalgia is growing in this thread.
But, do you like NOLF? I dont get it yet... Yes or No ;)
 
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