Let's discuss the "Dated" angle going around S3 rite now

[GhostTrick]

As someone who played Plague Tales. The number of characters is fairly limited. The game is 10 hours long, outside from the main cast of 10-12 characters, every ennemies litterally have the same face with no variation.

The game looks great because of the character models, the lightning and the environnements, the later relying a LOT on Quixel Megascan assets.

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But it's not to downrate Asobo's efforts because the game still manage to looks insane visually. And well... The animations are far more refined. But it's also a really linear game.

 

[Ianpm31]

What if you just compare the main character models?

Amicia & Hugo vs Ryu & Shenhua ?

I think the modelers are probably more talented than Ys Net's but you need to take into consideration that everything changes judging by the scope of the game especially by a 45 man studio at Ys Net.

 

[Big Tuba]

You can’t really judge a game like Shenmue after 15 minutes of gameplay is my thing right now. There’s so much to do and explore in these games. Most of the time it’s a game revolved around patience.

I always assume when people say things like “dated” they’re mostly hung up on the visuals or graphics. Graphics are a huge factor to a lot of people. Which I get. I’ve seen people say things like “It looks a PS3/360 game!”. Which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone going into a crowd-funded Shenmue title. As long as the spirit of Shenmue is still present. It’ll always be a great game.

But I’m sure Ryo still moves like a tank and overall it probably feels like a Dreamcast game made in 2019. Which I’m 100% all about!

 

[WildManofBorneo]

I think the modelers are probably more talented than Ys Net's but you need to take into consideration that everything changes judging by the scope of the game especially by a 45 man studio at Ys Net.

I'm actually quite interested to see what the final number will be who worked on S3 because yes, the core staff may be 45 but outsourcing can bring that number up substantially.

We know that there are another 30 people at Lakshya DIgital working on Shenmue 3, bringing the number to 75. But we don't know beyond that. It'll be interesting to find out nonetheless.

 

[WuyingRen]

Do you penalize the game for bad English VO but still has a great Japanese dub? I'm suspecting many critics are going to act like the Japanese dub doesn't exist to fit the narrative

A lot of people on these forums are seriously overestimating the demand for Shenmue over here. Pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to about gaming in the 2+ years I’ve been living over here prefer mobile gaming to console gaming and the majority of those that own consoles are Switch owners.

I have spoken with PS4 owners, but only one of them even knew that Shenmue 3 was happening (I always bring it up with people I meet that have an interest in gaming when I have the chance) and that was only because her husband played the originals when he was younger (I actually saw her last Friday and the first thing she asked me was if I’d heard that the game had been delayed).

The fact that Deep Silver still haven’t bothered to update their Amazon Japan listing to reflect the delay more than a week after it was announced says a lot about their expectations for Japanese sales.

With this in mind, what sense would it have made to release a game aimed primarily at a western market without an English dub? Moreover, should the press really be expected to play through the game in a foreign language?

Only hardcore fans will play through the game in Japanese and so I think it’s unrealistic to expect gaming journalists to pay any consideration to anything other than the English language dub. With that in mind, I think it deserves to be judged on the quality of the English dub regardless of how much better the Japanese dub will probably end up being.

 

[Ryo2040]

Very interesting with Quixel...
Did Ysnet also use this? I guess not, even though environments seem to be great.
Maybe a good solution for last minute touchups?

 

[GhostTrick]

Very interesting with Quixel...
Did Ysnet also use this? I guess not, even though environments seem to be great.
Maybe a good solution for last minute touchups?

Nah, I dont think so.

 

[BruceWayne911]

Shenmue 3 was always gonna be somewhat dated. They are working on budget and the gaming community has asked for the game to stay as close to the previous two as possible. The voice actors for the most part are the original actors so yeah bad voice acting again lol. Let's just get to Shenmue 4 bigger budget and then we can start smoothing things out.

 

[Sh3ppy]

I’m surprised so many people are hung up on the inconsistency of quality in character models. Both Shenmue I & II were known for having inferior models for many secondary characters and NPCs, due to the sheer number of NPCs in the games.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I do wonder why they’ve had so much trouble nailing Ryo. I’ve got no knowledge of character design or 3D modeling, but did the old look just not fit the aesthetic of the new game? I struggle to believe it was just a matter of talent.

As far as archaic vs modern design, people still play MUDs and text adventures. There’s a market for everything. I don’t care what some big entertainment writer thinks about the modernity of Shenmue. I know why Yu Suzuki decided to keep Shenmue 3 true to its roots.

 

[9dragons]

Modern design is not always better. In many aspects the old design is better. Because it gives the game a unique Flair. Games These days try to do too many Things at the same time. In Shenmue 3 you to take your time to explore the world, to become a part of it. It is not a Hud driven experience with many Icons blinking in the world and you do not know where you have to to first and what to do first.

Concerning the character models I get the Point, but this also a classical trait of Shenmue. The character models were always quite different. They range from rather realistic character model, to characters that could come from another universe.

 

[GhostTrick]

Modern design is not always better. In many aspects the old design is better. Because it gives the game a unique Flair. Games These days try to do too many Things at the same time. In Shenmue 3 you to take your time to explore the world, to become a part of it. It is not a Hud driven experience with many Icons blinking in the world and you do not know where you have to to first and what to do first.

Concerning the character models I get the Point, but this also a classical trait of Shenmue. The character models were always quite different. They range from rather realistic character model, to characters that could come from another universe.

But still, they were of similar quality.

You had basically 3 tiers of characters:

• Main characters, the highest quality.
• Secondary characters (usually with names and lines), of good quality.
• Pedestrians, of lower quality.

But characters of the same tier all maintained the same degree of quality. The problem here is that when you look at the shops and mini games, some vendors looks to be of higher quality than others. But then again as I told you, the problem isn't only the quality of the model and textures. But mainly bad animations. And by bad animations, I mean weird/awkward ones, like that Lucky Hit lady, who had her arm looking like it was paralyzed.

 

[9dragons]

I see Ghost Trick. Maybe you are Right and Maybe not. to be honest I have not the eye to discern good animations from bad animations. At the Moment my gaming taste is so 90s. Have to Play so many good ps1 and Saturn titles again. So I am far away from modern gaming and when a Animation is good and when it is not in modern day gaming Terms.

I prefer games that look like Video games and not like same bad CGG flick like the average modern day game does.

 

[Jigen]

It's not talent it's style. Don't underestimate their talent because you don't like the style. Hardly anyone could do any better.

 

[Reprise]

But still, they were of similar quality.

You had basically 3 tiers of characters:

• Main characters, the highest quality.
• Secondary characters (usually with names and lines), of good quality.
• Pedestrians, of lower quality.

But characters of the same tier all maintained the same degree of quality. The problem here is that when you look at the shops and mini games, some vendors looks to be of higher quality than others. But then again as I told you, the problem isn't only the quality of the model and textures. But mainly bad animations. And by bad animations, I mean weird/awkward ones, like that Lucky Hit lady, who had her arm looking like it was paralyzed.

I agree with this. The problem is inconsistencies and oddities, as you explained above with your examples. It's not just limited to unimportant NPCs either, often within the same scene characters can go from having passable animations to poor animations, or often in scenes with Shenhua and Ryo, Shenhua looks decent, whilst Ryo's face looks like static image of his default vacant expression.

 

[GhostTrick]

I see Ghost Trick. Maybe you are Right and Maybe not. to be honest I have not the eye to discern good animations from bad animations. At the Moment my gaming taste is so 90s. Have to Play so many good ps1 and Saturn titles again. So I am far away from modern gaming and when a Animation is good and when it is not in modern day gaming Terms.

I prefer games that look like Video games and not like same bad CGG flick like the average modern day game does.

It's not about modern terms. Good animations as I told you in a previous post is about being consistent. Shenmue I-II have good animations, because they're consistent (the quality is the same all across the game) but they're also making sense. When Ryo is holding an item or looking at an item, he's making eye contact with it. His head is also following the direction of where his eyes are making contact.

Bad or good animations aren't about being modern or realistic. They're also about making your brain think "this is believable" "it's logical when you look at the whole thing". It's all about tricking your brain to think "this movement is logical".

For exemple, when Ryo is standing in front of an item but is looking at the wall, your brain is telling you "this isn't normal". But I feel like YsNet is making their task more complicated. We dont need to see Ryo's unanimated face in like half of the actions. When he's interacting with the wooden dummy for practice, we dont need to have a plan focusing on Ryo, looking at nothing and talking to himself saying "Horse stancing uh ? Maybe I'll give it a try". This can be done from his back.

 

[GhostTrick]

I agree with this. The problem is inconsistencies and oddities, as you explained above with your examples. It's not just limited to unimportant NPCs either, often within the same scene characters can go from having passable animations to poor animations, or often in scenes with Shenhua and Ryo, Shenhua looks decent, whilst Ryo's face looks like static image of his default vacant expression.

Yeah, exactly. It also applies to cutscenes. This is why some looks decent and some other looks bad.

I think the Walmart footage highlighted it well. When the fortune guy is running, his animation is believable and makes sense. First he's running toward Ryo, yet he's looking on left and right, shifting his head toward the guy pursuing him.

And then when he's talking to Ryo while hiding, he's still looking at the pursuer because he is the point of interest in the scene. The fortune guy is pointing at him and nearly arguing with him too while Ryo looks at the fortune guy then at the other guy when the fortune guy finished his explanation.

That scene makes sense. Even if it's not animated with today's standards, it looks fine because your brain process it as natural and believable.

I also feel like Shenhua received more care compared to Ryo when it comes to facial animations.

 

[den]

It's not talent it's style. Don't underestimate their talent because you don't like the style. Hardly anyone could do any better.

Style you said ?

 

[reminisce]

Style you said ? View attachment 3198

Those are one of the NPC's that I presume are still works in progress...I'm sure these WIP NPC's will eventually match the high quality of the other amazing NPC's we've seen...

Patience is a virtue...

I’m sure most of the character faces and expressions are being refined as we speak and they’ll eventually be up to the high quality standard of these amazing NPC’s...which fit the high quality environments astoundingly...

View attachment 3179

View attachment 3180

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[Araviel]

A lot of people on these forums are seriously overestimating the demand for Shenmue over here. Pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to about gaming in the 2+ years I’ve been living over here prefer mobile gaming to console gaming and the majority of those that own consoles are Switch owners.

I have spoken with PS4 owners, but only one of them even knew that Shenmue 3 was happening (I always bring it up with people I meet that have an interest in gaming when I have the chance) and that was only because her husband played the originals when he was younger (I actually saw her last Friday and the first thing she asked me was if I’d heard that the game had been delayed).

The fact that Deep Silver still haven’t bothered to update their Amazon Japan listing to reflect the delay more than a week after it was announced says a lot about their expectations for Japanese sales.

With this in mind, what sense would it have made to release a game aimed primarily at a western market without an English dub? Moreover, should the press really be expected to play through the game in a foreign language?

Only hardcore fans will play through the game in Japanese and so I think it’s unrealistic to expect gaming journalists to pay any consideration to anything other than the English language dub. With that in mind, I think it deserves to be judged on the quality of the English dub regardless of how much better the Japanese dub will probably end up being.

Disagree. The news that it would offer dual audio made my month. Besides, a lot of people prefer playing in other languages than English. There are many fans all over Europe for example, whose mothertongue isn't English, who probably will play in JPN.

Also why hate on the English dub? I prefer to play in JPN but the ENG offers a pretty cool "old Kung fu movie dub in English" wibe.

Either way, this topic on quality and consistency is interesting but to be honest I'm over it. I don't understand the intensity of nitpicking. It's gotten to the point where I don't agree but can't be arsed to make an input because the insisting detailed replies are just draining to reply to in turn. Also the game was delayed for a reason so how about we hold our horses a wee bit? Anyways, some folks here write as if they have tried the demo themselves when they haven't and it's a bit old by now.