List of what we learn in Shenmue 3

GhostTrick said:
At this point, I just feel like Yu Suzuki doesn't know where he's heading and is just rewriting stuff as it happens and retconning them. There's no need to search logic in the Chiyoumen name.
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Or worse and the CYM were never meant to be anything other than the 'bad guys' the whole time.

It begs the question though, why name them after Chi You, have the tatoo etc. if they are just supposed to be the Triads? Given China's relationship to the hill tribe peoples I have a feeling the games are going to self censor and Chi You s going to be relegated to just being a monster at best rather than delving deeper into his historicity and the culture of the Hmong.
 
hmjohnny said:
Or worse and the CYM were never meant to be anything other than the 'bad guys' the whole time.

It begs the question though, why name them after Chi You, have the tatoo etc. if they are just supposed to be the Triads? Given China's relationship to the hill tribe peoples I have a feeling the games are going to self censor and Chi You s going to be relegated to just being a monster at best rather than delving deeper into his historicity and the culture of the Hmong.
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I also thought Lan Di would be more of a complicated character, but based on his shallow and uncreative three lines of dialogue, it looks like he’s essentially just a standard ‘bad guy’.
 
Machsi said:
I also thought Lan Di would be more of a complicated character, but based on his shallow and uncreative three lines of dialogue, it looks like he’s essentially just a standard ‘bad guy’.
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Agreed. I was hoping for more characterization on his part, crossing fingers for Shenmue 4.

I do like that he's unapologetically the bad guy though in Shenmue 3. He can't be made sympathetic when his kick the dog moment is so big.
 
Did some of you really want a legendary Chinese monster who will devour the world to be in Shenmue? In my opinion, that's way too out there for a series as grounded in reality as Shenmue, even counting the floating sword and Shenhua's powers as canon.

Machsi said:
I also thought Lan Di would be more of a complicated character, but based on his shallow and uncreative three lines of dialogue, it looks like he’s essentially just a standard ‘bad guy’.
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hmjohnny said:
Agreed. I was hoping for more characterization on his part, crossing fingers for Shenmue 4.

I do like that he's unapologetically the bad guy though in Shenmue 3. He can't be made sympathetic when his kick the dog moment is so big.
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I kind of agree with this, but I still think his character is deeper than "generic bad guy." It felt to me like he was basically saying that if Ryo doesn't give up, he's going to be forced to kill him. And don't forget that he probably has an irrational hatred for the entire Hazuki family because of his belief that Iwao killed his father. Also, Ryo has been somewhat of a thorn in his side, constantly getting involved in his dealings with gangs like the Mad Angels and the Yellow Heads as well as interfering with his plan to kidnap Zhu.

Even so, he allowed Ryo to escape (even after Ren threw the "Phoenix Mirror" out the window).
 
B-Man said:
Did some of you really want a legendary Chinese monster who will devour the world to be in Shenmue? In my opinion, that's way too out there for a series as grounded in reality as Shenmue, even counting the floating sword and Shenhua's powers as canon.
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Tbh I kinda do. When playing the first game for the first time, that line from Master Chen is the first time I thought to myself, "Wow, this might get interesting!" although I wasn't ready to take it literally.

I love how realistic Shenmue is, but I'm ready for the story to actually go places, and Shenmue 2's Disc 4 implied it was about to. Now I'm doubtful it ever will, I think it's lame they retconned Shenhua's ki (potentially) and the floating sword.
 
Lan Di-sama said:
Tbh I kinda do. When playing the first game for the first time, that line from Master Chen is the first time I thought to myself, "Wow, this might get interesting!" although I wasn't ready to take it literally.

I love how realistic Shenmue is, but I'm ready for the story to actually go places, and Shenmue 2's Disc 4 implied it was about to. Now I'm doubtful it ever will, I think it's lame they retconned Shenhua's ki (potentially) and the floating sword.
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I don't think they retconned Shenhua's ki, considering the scene where she gets the thug boss to talk, the conversation she has with Ryo alluding to the flashback she had in Shenmue II, and the fact that she can still talk to animals. I think we'll see and learn more about it later on (if the series continues).
 
Lan Di-sama said:
Tbh I kinda do. When playing the first game for the first time, that line from Master Chen is the first time I thought to myself, "Wow, this might get interesting!" although I wasn't ready to take it literally.

I love how realistic Shenmue is, but I'm ready for the story to actually go places, and Shenmue 2's Disc 4 implied it was about to. Now I'm doubtful it ever will, I think it's lame they retconned Shenhua's ki (potentially) and the floating sword.
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I don't think they retconned Shenhua's ki, and even if they did (and again I don't think they did) they went deeper on other aspects of her mysticism. Her memories of living other people's lives and the interrogation scene mainly. She also seems to think she knows what animals are thinking/feeling, which is sort of played for laughs, but I think she might be serious.

Also, the mirror in the opening cutscene still shot out a fucking laser beam and lit the torches on fire, so it's not like the flying sword was retconned because it was supernatural. IMO it's more likely that it was retconned because it was a little TOO obvious about its supernatural nature. Other things (even the laser from the mirror) are a little more subtle. I feel like Yu still wants the supernatural side of the story to be a bit ambiguous at this point in the story, and only whipped out a fucking flying sword at the end of Shenmue 2 to really get people's attention since he knew the death of the Dreamcast was a bad omen for the future of the series.
 
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B-Man said:
Did some of you really want a legendary Chinese monster who will devour the world to be in Shenmue? In my opinion, that's way too out there for a series as grounded in reality as Shenmue, even counting the floating sword and Shenhua's powers as canon.
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I want to see the phoenix of the prophecy, so I wouldn't mind its dragon and Chi You. But I have no hope after the retcon of the sword.
 
B-Man said:
Did some of you really want a legendary Chinese monster who will devour the world to be in Shenmue? In my opinion, that's way too out there for a series as grounded in reality as Shenmue, even counting the floating sword and Shenhua's powers as canon.
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I kind of agree. I think having it just be a big monster you have to defeat at the end isn't the most interesting way the legend of mirrors could go. It could also be worse if it was just a monetary treasure but I don't think that's the case.

B-Man said:
I kind of agree with this, but I still think his character is deeper than "generic bad guy." It felt to me like he was basically saying that if Ryo doesn't give up, he's going to be forced to kill him. And don't forget that he probably has an irrational hatred for the entire Hazuki family because of his belief that Iwao killed his father. Also, Ryo has been somewhat of a thorn in his side, constantly getting involved in his dealings with gangs like the Mad Angels and the Yellow Heads as well as interfering with his plan to kidnap Zhu.

Even so, he allowed Ryo to escape (even after Ren threw the "Phoenix Mirror" out the window).
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Yeah I agree with all this. However, Shenmue 3 really was lacking in this department. It would have been cool if some of this stuff was a little more explored.
Dietsoap said:
I don't think they retconned Shenhua's ki, and even if they did (and again I don't think they did) they went deeper on other aspects of her mysticism. Her memories of living other people's lives and the interrogation scene mainly. She also seems to think she knows what animals are thinking/feeling, which is sort of played for laughs, but I think she might be serious.
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Dietsoap said:
I feel like Yu still wants the supernatural side of the story to be a bit ambiguous at this point in the story, and only whipped out a fucking flying sword at the end of Shenmue 2 to really get people's attention since he knew the death of the Dreamcast was a bad omen for the future of the series.
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I think Shenmue's supernatural elements are meant to be more subtle, and ultimately that's better than having a giant dragon and phoenix battle it out in the sky. Although, anyone remember that Shenmue Online trailer...

You're also spot on about the ending of Shenmue 2. It was meant to showcase where the story was going since Suzuki didn't know if the series would continue, I fully expected the supernatural elements to be toned down in 3, but was pleased they still alluded to Shenhua having powers.
 
hmjohnny said:
I think Shenmue's supernatural elements are meant to be more subtle, and ultimately that's better than having a giant dragon and phoenix battle it out in the sky. Although, anyone remember that Shenmue Online trailer...
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Yeah, I also remember the original reveal trailer in which Lan Di, Ryo, and some random Final Fantasy-esque character all start doing Hadoukens. I really hope none of this stuff ever actually happens in the series.
 
Also do people really think it was alluded that Shenhua had power in the interrogation scene ?

That was just your usual anime joke with a cute girl scaring a strong guy in her way.
 
I think (hope) there won't be a real dragon and phoenix, and it's just a metaphor for a fight with high stakes.
Maybe the treasure includes a genealogy tree that points to another descendant to the dynasty (probably Shenhua) and Chi You is probably someone that wants to use that information for nefarious means (some da vinci code stuff alike).
I was kinda bummed that in S3 we find out that the "ancient mirrors" were actually 70 years old, I was thinking that they referred to the myth of the yellow emperor or the first emperor ( Qin Shi Huang) and his tomb.

Real Dragons and stuff feel like something David Cage would pull out. Very deus ex machina.
Also do people really think it was alluded that Shenhua had power in the interrogation scene ?
That was just your usual anime joke with a cute girl scaring a strong guy in her way.
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I do think that, we have seen the levitation scene, we know she dreams about her ancestors, we know she talks with animals (those are played in a more "realistic way" but still) and we also see her "ki explode" in the berkeley videos.
It's clear that they want to play it off as oddities, but there's something else going on there and not just a throwaway joke (at least to me).
 
GhostTrick said:
Also do people really think it was alluded that Shenhua had power in the interrogation scene ?

That was just your usual anime joke with a cute girl scaring a strong guy in her way.
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Yes, I absolutely think so. First of all, Shenmue is not an anime and it doesn't normally have those kinds of jokes. Maybe you could argue the Fangmei Man Mo Bistro scene counts, but even if you fail the QTE Ryo is still the one that ends up knocking the guy out.

Secondly, it's pretty obvious from the way the camera zooms in on her eye and the scene fades to black while that sound effect plays. It's more than just a joke.
 
B-Man said:
Yes, I absolutely think so. First of all, Shenmue is not an anime and it doesn't normally have those kinds of jokes. Maybe you could argue the Fangmei Man Mo Bistro scene counts, but even if you fail the QTE Ryo is still the one that ends up knocking the guy out.

Secondly, it's pretty obvious from the way the camera zooms in on her eye and the scene fades to black while that sound effect plays. It's more than just a joke.
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I mean, it was also obvious that the Sword was a sword and that it was floating.
It's just a cute anime joke, the same way Shiling beating people with a broom is.
Shenmue isn't an anime yet it also takes on some anime tropes and jokes.
 
GhostTrick said:
I mean, it was also obvious that the Sword was a sword and that it was floating.
It's just a cute anime joke, the same way Shiling beating people with a broom is.
Shenmue isn't an anime yet it also takes on some anime tropes and jokes.
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Shenhua's interrogation was totally different from Shiling beating people with a broom. That's why they don't show you what actually happens. It's still supposed to be a mystery. Maybe Shenmue does sometimes invoke such tropes, but this was not one of those times.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it subverts the trope. Shiren seems to think that's exactly what happened and Liu probably does too (can't remember what he says when you speak to him afterwards). But it should be obvious to the player, especially if familiar with Shenmue, that there's more to it.

I'm not saying that we're ever going to be explicitly told what happened in that scene. But if there are more Shenmue games, we will find out more about her powers so that we will be able to surmise what happened.
 
To me the in interrogation scene suggested that she did something abnormal to Yanling. The setup of the scene, camera shot and music did not indicate they were going for some cute girl turns scary anime trope.

Shenhua has always come across as an 'abnormal' individual and Shenmue 3, as others have pointed out, added to that with the conversations about her talking to animals, her dreams and the interrogation scene. However, it did it in a much more down to earth way that fits in better with the tone of the series as a whole.

I'm hearing a lot off people putting too much stock into the whole floating sword retcon. Personally, the final scene of Shenmue 2 was designed to give the ending of that game more of a bang. After all, ending such an epic game in a cave with not much happening would have been a bit of a letdown. In fact, had it not been for Yu-san wanting players to meet Shenhua, Shenmue 2 probably would have ended after Kowloon. In that regard, I would take the end of Shenmue 2 to be a bit of cinematic licence and nothing more; thus no retcon needed. Having said that, I believe there is a level of mysticism in the series, but at this point in time it was never meant to be to the extent of the floating sword. By the end of the series we might get there, but we'll have to just wait and see.
 
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