Looking for controller advice for the PC

[Mr357]

What should I get for a decent experience of both Shenmue I or Shenmue II?
Xbox 360/One, PS3/4? Official Dreamcast controller with an USB adapter?

This is what I've been trying to use, and it's been an absolute nightmare so far. As expected, the game doesn't recognize the controller on its own, so I've tried x360ce, Xpadder, and simply changing settings in Steam so that it will recognize the controller. The first two do absolutely nothing, despite my best efforts, while Steam reads continuous input from the analog stick regardless of my deadzone setting, and has the buttons mapped incorrectly. I've all but given up on using it. The sad thing is, it works perfectly with Demul and other Steam games with absolutely zero effort apart from choosing button/trigger/stick assignments.

 

[ner0]

This is what I've been trying to use, and it's been an absolute nightmare so far. As expected, the game doesn't recognize the controller on its own, so I've tried x360ce, Xpadder, and simply changing settings in Steam so that it will recognize the controller. The first two do absolutely nothing, despite my best efforts, while Steam reads continuous input from the analog stick regardless of my deadzone setting, and has the buttons mapped incorrectly. I've all but given up on using it. The sad thing is, it works perfectly with Demul and other Steam games with absolutely zero effort apart from choosing button/trigger/stick assignments.

Wow, I'm amazed by your experience.
I would have guessed that x360ce would have guaranteed the controller's operation.
In fact, just for kicks, I've used a Genesis/MegaDrive clone with x360ce in Shenmue and it worked fine... of course, it's a gamepad with only a digital pad and 6 buttons, nothing that would satisfy Shenmue's need for an analog stick, but still... I had considered this option of a DC gamepad + USB converter, but your experience with it has completely dissuaded me from it. That's unfortunate, really, particularly taking into account that it works perfectly with other Steam games, but not with Shenmue.

Curiosity; does the same problem happen with Shenmue 1 and also Shenmue 2?

 

[catonkatonk]

That would be ideal but quite the stretch given how little memory most controllers have available. Also, Microsoft can't arbitrate something like this.

The input images would be part of the driver, not provided by the controller or its ROM.
And Microsoft are the only ones that can arbitrate it, as they're the ones both certify drivers and create the APIs that games use in Windows.
Microsoft did create an API for all sorts of controllers as part of DirectX. They just didn't update it since the early 00s. When the X-Box 360 launched, they created a different API for that controller, and presumably, just for that controller. And there's not been anything since. There is no universal API to handle input in Windows. There doesn't seem to be a common functionality target for manufacturers to hit either (compared to how graphics drivers can target levels of the DirectX API, for example) either.

Microsoft can absolutely set out a series of standards that drivers must meet to pass certification - declare inputs, allow Windows to handle mapping, and provide visual representation of each input. Microsoft originally recognised controller input as a gaming issue and put it under the purview of DirectX, but then they forgot about it. Nowadays you can buy a graphics card that advertises itself as being DirectX12 compatible. Is your controller DirectX12 compatible? No, because there's no such thing, because Microsoft didn't bother.

Maybe from Microsoft's perspective, this isn't an issue, because they think the X-Box controller is the best one ever and nobody should ever use anything different. And maybe they're right! But it's still asinine and out of character for a company that is all about the plurality of choice.

 

[ner0]

The input images would be part of the driver, not provided by the controller or its ROM.
And Microsoft are the only ones that can arbitrate it, as they're the ones both certify drivers and create the APIs that games use in Windows.
Microsoft did create an API for all sorts of controllers as part of DirectX. They just didn't update it since the early 00s. When the X-Box 360 launched, they created a different API for that controller, and presumably, just for that controller. And there's not been anything since. There is no universal API to handle input in Windows. There doesn't seem to be a common functionality target for manufacturers to hit either (compared to how graphics drivers can target levels of the DirectX API, for example) either.

Microsoft can absolutely set out a series of standards that drivers must meet to pass certification - declare inputs, allow Windows to handle mapping, and provide visual representation of each input. Microsoft originally recognised controller input as a gaming issue and put it under the purview of DirectX, but then they forgot about it. Nowadays you can buy a graphics card that advertises itself as being DirectX12 compatible. Is your controller DirectX12 compatible? No, because there's no such thing, because Microsoft didn't bother.

Maybe from Microsoft's perspective, this isn't an issue, because they think the X-Box controller is the best one ever and nobody should ever use anything different. And maybe they're right! But it's still asinine and out of character for a company that is all about the plurality of choice.

I agree with you, but I don't think it's reasonable, at least at this point, to force manufacturers to include in their drivers certification bitmaps for the controller's visual appearance; considering that driver certification is something that a lot of gamepads lack, if not most. Generally they use an universal PnP standard which just adheres to Direct Input or XInput HID that maps inputs, it's aimed toward functionality, not visuals. As I've agreed before, it would be ideal, but not realistic in the short-term. In the meantime, game developers could do much more with much less hassle, not that I'm blaming them for not doing it. Direct Input / XInput API could surely allow for what you advocate, but sadly it doesn't and I don't see that changing soon.

 

[Amir]

Doesn't look like we'll be getting the Retro-Bit Official Bluetooth Dreamcast controller until next year; their first wave of Sega controllers this month doesn't include the Dreamcast: http://retro-bit.com/blog/post/retrobit-unveils-first-wave-of-officially-licensed-sega-products/

 

[pilman]

I use a DS4 controller using detection software via bluetooth and modded for ps4 icons, I find it my favorite so far.

 

[ner0]

I got my controller last week, but only played a bit during this past weekend.
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the XBO clone controller that I got for little over $18 (€16).
I can't do a fair comparison since I don't own an original controller or "high quality" clones... still, this controller work pretty well and the compatibility is ensured, as far as the OS is concerned, it's detected as a typical XBO controller. Suprisingly, even the stereo jack output on the back of the controller works for headphones and such. The only thing that I haven't tested, probably because Shenmue hasn't had it implemented, is the vibration function. Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with the controller.