Many Mysteries Of Miao Village Finally Unfold

LemonHaze said:
I mean you don't have to see it that way if you don't want to, but there is a lot of assets left on many of the builds which actually only represent small parts of something larger, be it pieces of dialogue like this... or cutscene data, or just simply animation data.

You cannot seriously or rationally base everything about Miao Village just from what we have. There is still a lot missing and as you even agreed with me, there would be more than just 2-3 NPCs, same way that there would be more of a reason for Ryo to be there, this is obvious.


Sure, but that's hardly anywhere near the entire story, lol, by definition.
Click to expand...

I am seriously basing everything about Miao Village by what we have. One reason is, why do these NPCs hit a brick wall and start their general conversational elements right after the Wulinshu is found? During the time this Game Jam build was made, the area had already been cut, which means any plans they had were already done. If there were any more story created for this area and spoken lines, they would be in here too. Ryo would have more conversation with Haihe, Wenyuan, etc... Don't tell me it makes sense to you that the developers would have meticulously went in to the subtitle data (of characters that had already been axed, thus especially ignored) to remove traces of any further story after the Wulinshu segment. What would be the point? Fans are never supposed to see any of it. It's more than extremely unlikely, I dare say impossible that happened. And yeah, of course there were going to be more than 2-3 NPCs walking around. That doesn't mean they wouldn't just be regurgitating the same information as the rest. "Miao Guang Temple is that way." Maybe some had a few cute exclusive "I'm not drunk" lines, but it doesn't mean they were going to be event related past the Wulinshu portion.

At the end of the day too, there could simply not even be more than a handful of characters who were ever given anything to say at all. There's literally no proof anywhere that suggests it reached an advanced stage. However, there is some proof that no more was made for Miao Village specifically post Wulinshu. Obviously not pre-Wulinshu either since Ryo discovers the village while looking for it. After Ryo gets the Wulinshu, we go into chawan mode, meet Ren, then it's off to Kowloon. I'm really not convinced anymore was ever planned, or made for Miao Village. I mean yeah, even if more NPCs inhabited the village and had a little fleshed out background to them, still the only proof we have of anything event related taking place there was for the Wulinshu.

What other assets are there, on any build, related to Miao village that would suggest any larger plans for this area? Cutscene data in particular. I'm not talking about some NPC motion data. I don't recall ever seeing any. If there is, let's analyze to see if it involves anyone other than OSY. Otherwise, I'm not going to sit here and say I'll bet dollars to donuts that nothing else could possibly be there. But I'm also not going to keep myself up at night searching either. I'm at peace enough that the biggest part of the mystery has been solved.
 
LanDC said:
I am seriously basing everything about Miao Village by what we have.
Click to expand...

Firstly, due to how the games are actually built, it's possible for really old and outdated files to be leftover on the disc.. and yes we're talking about even cut things, such as the bicycle. That's because of the nature of the way the games are built, they were built using a complex set of different build systems which were in the form of different scripts which would compile the various assets into the file formats which the game reads and then places them into the staging directory (the folder that eventually becomes what is burned to the disc).

However, sometimes it appears they run this build process with different options and depending on the type of build they used (and also quite often, if they didn't recompile X asset) these scripts will then use old copies of them.. which is exactly how the possibility for cut and unused content can be left on the disc. Sometimes this can happen in the form of a script/software bug, as is seen in this recent beta, whereby some of these build scripts can be seen with filenames completely unrelated to their contents (SCENE\02\UPLOAD2, it's just a text file, take a look).

LanDC said:
One reason is, why do these NPCs hit a brick wall and start their general conversational elements right after the Wulinshu is found?
Click to expand...
We can't really answer that with any amount of reasonable certainty, not with the (limited) amount of data available.

LanDC said:
During the time this Game Jam build was made, the area had already been cut, which means any plans they had were already done. If there were any more story created for this area and spoken lines, they would be in here too. Ryo would have more conversation with Haihe, Wenyuan, etc... Don't tell me it makes sense to you that the developers would have meticulously went in to the subtitle data (of characters that had already been axed, thus especially ignored) to remove traces of any further story after the Wulinshu segment. What would be the point? Fans are never supposed to see any of it. It's more than extremely unlikely, I dare say impossible that happened.
Click to expand...

Okay well, the script I just mentioned to you, present on the GameJam beta, Disc 1.. here's an excerpt of it:

Code: 
mkdir ARA0
mkdir AR03
mkdir AR02
mkdir AKT3
mkdir AKT2
mkdir AKT0
mkdir AKA3
mkdir AK00

cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/MAP0
ln -s ../../01/MAP0/* .
cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/0549
ln -s ../../01/0549/* .
cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/WET0
ln -s ../../01/WET0/* .
cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/AK09
ln -s ../../01/AK09/* .
cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/ARM0
ln -s ../../01/ARM0/* .
cd /p39/prj39p/s2new/main/vcd/scene/02/AKS0
ln -s ../../01/AKS0/* .

This is part of the build system which puts the files, specifically the maps, quite literally makes takes a copy of the map files from some place over the internal network. I'm sure you're aware of MAP0, the cut map with developer comments written everywhere.. this is still present in this list. Perhaps they forgot to delete it from the internal network directories, hence why the oldest version of it, the one with the developer comments was still being copied?

LanDC said:
What other assets are there, on any build, related to Miao village that would suggest any larger plans for this area? Cutscene data in particular. I'm not talking about some NPC motion data. I don't recall ever seeing any. If there is, let's analyze to see if it involves anyone other than OSY. Otherwise, I'm not going to sit here and say I'll bet dollars to donuts that nothing else could possibly be there. But I'm also not going to keep myself up at night searching either. I'm at peace enough that the biggest part of the mystery has been solved.
Click to expand...
I don't know, a cut game mechanic would probably justify the existence of a rather large and rural area... anything could, it is a game afterall.
1653007211027.png

Again, I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here. I'm simply saying that this doesn't solve everything about Miao Village, despite it being a very big step in truly unsolving it or a definitive "case closed".
 
LanDC said:
Don't tell me it makes sense to you that the developers would have meticulously went in to the subtitle data (of characters that had already been axed, thus especially ignored) to remove traces of any further story after the Wulinshu segment. What would be the point?
Click to expand...
No, the opposite... that they don't bother to remove a few remnants after they already 'marked it to not be burned to disc'. This actually happens a lot even in games today. A lot don't bother to remove them and thus accidentally sometimes this contains data which is actually in relation to cut/unused data.

Also, you can check yourself, there are files present on the disc which are months old. Not recompiling all of the assets used on the disc when you make a build of a game is fairly common, and that implies that you're not getting "all of the cut assets" for X thing, it implies you're only getting a few pieces of the whole thing.
 
Excellent job finding this stuff @LanDC and going through all of that dialogue just to pick out the good stuff! I went through thousands of textures looking for maps, signs, or any new visual reference to Miao Village and there wasn't anything. I never even considered subtitles a possibility since there were no extra scenes or music to be found.

I think this is great information as it does basically confirm much of the role the area had in the story at one point in time.
 
LemonHaze said:
No, the opposite... that they don't bother to remove a few remnants after they already 'marked it to not be burned to disc'. This actually happens a lot even in games today. A lot don't bother to remove them and thus accidentally sometimes this contains data which is actually in relation to cut/unused data.

Also, you can check yourself, there are files present on the disc which are months old. Not recompiling all of the assets used on the disc when you make a build of a game is fairly common, and that implies that you're not getting "all of the cut assets" for X thing, it implies you're only getting a few pieces of the whole thing.
Click to expand...

Look man, we could go back and forth all day about what could be. Fact is, we don't know anything for a 100% fact. I respect your opinion on this as clearly you know your shit. But your issue seems to be that I'm claiming there's absolutely nothing else to see here. I never did that in my post. I just said it explains why Ryo went, where it is, and what point of the game he visits it in. So whether or not there's a escort service, or a volleyball tournament in Miao Village somewhere in some crazy build, my goal was to answer the main questions people have had about it. It's a.... "satisfactory ending" as Yu Suzuki would say. Which is likely the only conclusion we will ever get, since we'll all probably have dementia worse than Joe Biden before any older builds leak, if they ever do.

I'd rather post this, which is very thorough and possibly the majority of what Miao Village entailed, than just keep it hidden while I wait to see if other details are out there in the ether. Nameen?
 
Sappharad said:
Excellent job finding this stuff @LanDC and going through all of that dialogue just to pick out the good stuff! I went through thousands of textures looking for maps, signs, or any new visual reference to Miao Village and there wasn't anything. I never even considered subtitles a possibility since there were no extra scenes or music to be found.

I think this is great information as it does basically confirm much of the role the area had in the story at one point in time.
Click to expand...

I figured many of you guys would be going for the jugular like that. So I went straight for something I felt would be a little less sought after. :p
 
bcdcdude said:
I remember an old CVG article that announced Shenmue for the first time that suggested that if you missed the chance to do something it would change the dynamic of the game. The example used was missing the chance to get a boat, meaning you had to wait two weeks for the next one. I wonder if this is an extension of this, so if you arrived two weeks earlier the man would not be killed and you can get the Wulinshu that way?
Click to expand...
IIRC missing to get the boat meant arriving HK during the rain season hence the missable event/s. Of all cut features this is my most regreted. Events unfolding matching Magic Weather its my fav S1 flag (besides training)
It seems that beta S1, money had major role with some S2 parlors appearing and always wandered what options related to money they left... it can't be just the ticket, scrolls, gachas and drinks during all the development.

ShenSun said:
In hindsight, i'm glad Suzuki cut Miao Villiage. If it were there, it would take away from the epicness of Guilin when you first step off that boat. They look similar.

I don't think anything will ever match the first time we experienced disk 4 of Shenmue 2. One of the greatest moments in all of gaming. I get chills just thinking about it
Click to expand...
Same here. Normally I always prefer the final changes over the beta, like RE2 better than 1.5 but in this case they nailed it swapping the rural area. 20yrs later and I still feel Guilin and Shen Hua encounter as the first time. It was very brave to pace a game like that.

Edit: I remember a concept CG with Ryo travelling on a plane and standing in some airport/train station. Did i dreamed that?
 
LanDC said:
Look man, we could go back and forth all day about what could be. Fact is, we don't know anything for a 100% fact. I respect your opinion on this as clearly you know your shit. But your issue seems to be that I'm claiming there's absolutely nothing else to see here. I never did that in my post.
Click to expand...

No, dude. As already stated, I was talking in relation to the entirety of Miao Village being a "case closed" or "completely solved" situation. I have already commended you on translating and posting this stuff, my comments were only in relation to now considering Miao Village done and done, just because of these findings.. that's all. For example, we still don't know what the button prompt was for in the screenshot. Again, I am not talking about your specific findings, I just don't consider Miao Village now "fully understood" because of them. (also I think most of it is coming from the thread title "The Mystery of Miao Village is Finally Solved")
 
You both are very passionate about Shenmue and its great reading your both insights. But could you please meet in person, fight with controlled violence and stream it here? with real punches, kicks and throws. There can be only one true Shenmue guru. I want LanDC losing because his long hair has me envious. Nature works in misterious ways.

bCZwaWQ9QXBp

troll.png
 
Seaman said:
You both are very passionate about Shenmue and its great reading your both insights. But could you please meet in person, fight with controlled violence and stream it here? with real punches, kicks and throws. There can be only one true Shenmue guru. I want LanDC losing because his long hair has me envious. Nature works in misterious ways.

bCZwaWQ9QXBp

View attachment 15756
Click to expand...

It's short now. Avatar is like 5 years old. If I change it to a flat-faced doge, would that make you prefer me?
 
Wow, what an amazing find (and a name for OSY at last)! Everyone had been hoping the prototype might reveal more about Miao Village and it certainly didn't disappoint! Great job on all the translations and piecing together the flow of the conversations in such a short time.
 
Seeing this stuff just makes me smile alot.

Like we've been waiting 20 years for further clues to this and now we have them. Barring an actual playable area this is pretty much the best outcome.

Looking forward to seeing what others bring up from this Beta as time goes on.
 
Long time no talk, LanDC! It surely is a "huge" find, the King of Shenmue!
Great job as always!

Though I don't have much time now, I have to point out one important thing.
OSY's name is 雲海 (Yunhai) actually, and 和尚 (Osho) part is his title. I'm not sure what is the right way to call Buddhist priest in English, but 雲海和尚 could be something like Master Yunhai?
Oh, and now I know why his code name is OSY; we spell 和尚 as Osyo in Romaji in Japan.
 
Last edited:
Kiyuu said:
Long time no talk, LanDC! It surely is a "huge" find, the King of Shenmue!
Great job as always!

Though I don't have much time now, I have to point out one important thing.
OSY's name is 雲海 (Yunhai) actually, and 和尚 (Osho) part is his title. I'm not sure what is the right way to call Buddist priest in English, but 雲海和尚 could be something like Master Yunhai?
Oh, and now I know why his code name is OSY; we spell 和尚 as Osyo in Romaji in Japan.
Click to expand...
Jesus motherfucking Christ, it's been a long time since I've seen that avatar! With all this new information being uncovered and the return of familiar faces, I'm feeling quite nostalgic right now 😁
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top