My problem with the ending.

ShenmueForeseen

ShenmueForeseen

Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Everyone seems to have their own concerns and criticisms.

For me Ryo confronting Lan Di is not an issue and I actually think it's a great idea. I even enjoyed the fight despite some saying it is too short.

My main problems are:

- Those 3 awkward martial artists. Just why? The one who sounds like a turkey is just really ridiculous and that sort of thing really does not belong in the final scene at that moment.

- Ryo's 'Why are we even friends?' line. Really now? He's standing 6 feet away from LAN DI, and he's making lame jokes with equally lame delivery like that? It completely ruins any sense of the unreasonable passion Ryo should be harboring there and then. In fact he should be stoic, seeing red and staring at Lan Di throughout.

- Ryo ruinning away from Lan Di. Yes, he was clearly outmatched, but in my view the whole point is that Ryo has still yet to learn that pursuing Lan Di is the wrong thing to do. Ryo is still beyond reasoning with which is why he will not give up chasing Lan Di. So how could they have avoided this? In my view, they should have had the flames around them cause part of the ceiling to crash down between Ryo/Ren and Lan Di so they were forced to be separated. That way Ryo would have to accept he needs to leave. The way it actually ended is not right, as the Ryo I have come to know would regardless of his injuries still get up and run at Lan Di. He is beyond all reason and full of unadulterated hatred in that moment. Ren couldn't just make him leave so easily.
 
ShenmueForeseen said:
- Ryo's 'Why are we even friends?' line. Really now? He's standing 6 feet away from LAN DI, and he's making lame jokes with equally lame delivery like that? It completely ruins any sense of the unreasonable passion Ryo should be harboring there and then. In fact he should be stoic, seeing red and staring at Lan Di throughout.
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In the Japanese track he simply says "Omae ga..." which is literally just "you..."

I can't say the humor really bothered me. Ren's swift kick to the face did actually make me laugh and think "well, that is Ren through and through"

But I do somewhat see where you're coming from...a supposed epic moment that fans wanted to see taken seriously.
 
I think many of us had an issues with the overall tone of the ending sequence. Primarily the fact it was wildly inconsistent. That’s not to say you can’t have levity at a serious moment, but seeing Mr. Hsu and Shiling comically dispatch enemy after enemy not only seemed out of place but drained any dramatic tension there could have been.

Now most of us have speculated the ending had serious cuts or last minute changes which accounts for a lot of staging or sequences not quite making sense. It’s sort of comical hearing Ryo’s final line be a warning to Lan Di not to run away completely discounting he did no such thing at the Old Castle and dismantled Ryo. Your idea where a collapsed roof separates them and saves Ryo makes a lot more sense then what we got.
 
ShenmueForeseen said:
Everyone seems to have their own concerns and criticisms.

For me Ryo confronting Lan Di is not an issue and I actually think it's a great idea. I even enjoyed the fight despite some saying it is too short.

My main problems are:

- Those 3 awkward martial artists. Just why? The one who sounds like a turkey is just really ridiculous and that sort of thing really does not belong in the final scene at that moment.

- Ryo's 'Why are we even friends?' line. Really now? He's standing 6 feet away from LAN DI, and he's making lame jokes with equally lame delivery like that? It completely ruins any sense of the unreasonable passion Ryo should be harboring there and then. In fact he should be stoic, seeing red and staring at Lan Di throughout.

- Ryo ruinning away from Lan Di. Yes, he was clearly outmatched, but in my view the whole point is that Ryo has still yet to learn that pursuing Lan Di is the wrong thing to do. Ryo is still beyond reasoning with which is why he will not give up chasing Lan Di. So how could they have avoided this? In my view, they should have had the flames around them cause part of the ceiling to crash down between Ryo/Ren and Lan Di so they were forced to be separated. That way Ryo would have to accept he needs to leave. The way it actually ended is not right, as the Ryo I have come to know would regardless of his injuries still get up and run at Lan Di. He is beyond all reason and full of unadulterated hatred in that moment. Ren couldn't just make him leave so easily.
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Yes, the ending was clearly intended to be much more but had some massive cuts and rushing towards the end of the project. Yu Suzuki would need to confirm that is fact however, its just a theory still
 
Machsi said:
Yes, the ending was clearly intended to be much more but had some massive cuts and rushing towards the end of the project. Yu Suzuki would need to confirm that is fact however, its just a theory still
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Its pretty obvious, theory or not
 
Machsi said:
Yes, the ending was clearly intended to be much more but had some massive cuts and rushing towards the end of the project. Yu Suzuki would need to confirm that is fact however, its just a theory still
Click to expand...

This may sound strange but I wish they had spent the majority of time, money and resources on the first and final chapters. I think those are the main places where the story could have advanced. For me, no matter how beautiful and amazing Niaowu is, if one chapter/area had to be rushed and left unfinished, I would far rather it was that one. Bailu village and wherever the confrontation with Lan Di was to take place should have been the whole game.
 
ShenmueForeseen said:
Everyone seems to have their own concerns and criticisms.

For me Ryo confronting Lan Di is not an issue and I actually think it's a great idea. I even enjoyed the fight despite some saying it is too short.

My main problems are:

- Those 3 awkward martial artists. Just why? The one who sounds like a turkey is just really ridiculous and that sort of thing really does not belong in the final scene at that moment.

- Ryo's 'Why are we even friends?' line. Really now? He's standing 6 feet away from LAN DI, and he's making lame jokes with equally lame delivery like that? It completely ruins any sense of the unreasonable passion Ryo should be harboring there and then. In fact he should be stoic, seeing red and staring at Lan Di throughout.

- Ryo ruinning away from Lan Di. Yes, he was clearly outmatched, but in my view the whole point is that Ryo has still yet to learn that pursuing Lan Di is the wrong thing to do. Ryo is still beyond reasoning with which is why he will not give up chasing Lan Di. So how could they have avoided this? In my view, they should have had the flames around them cause part of the ceiling to crash down between Ryo/Ren and Lan Di so they were forced to be separated. That way Ryo would have to accept he needs to leave. The way it actually ended is not right, as the Ryo I have come to know would regardless of his injuries still get up and run at Lan Di. He is beyond all reason and full of unadulterated hatred in that moment. Ren couldn't just make him leave so easily.
Click to expand...
Just finished the game. The ending wasn't nearly as bad as I expected based on all the negativity I was hearing, but I do agree with all three of your points. It definitely would have made way more sense to have them separated by the fire and collapsing building. I can buy Ryo running away from Mr. Muscles but it's a little hard to swallow that he had his hands on Lan Di and did anything less than fight him to the death.

It's also true that it wasn't the right time to have Ryo make a wisecrack about his friendship with Ren. I actually found it amusing, but at that moment his focus should have been 100% on Lan Di, who was literally sitting right in front of him.

As for the three martial artists, I didn't have a huge problem with them being there. But it did seem a bit pointless and it would have been more climactic if Lan Di was there by himself.
 
The ending is the only part of the whole game that i really didnt like. It felt so rushed and almost amateurish,
like some kind of public trailer reaction test and not the real thing.
It goes from scene to scene to scene without any details or explanation. There is no real build up, no wow omg moments,
its not sad, its not happy ...
It feels like they worked almost all these years on Bailu, then started and expanded Niaowu
and then they noticed that they dont have any time left for the finale.

Here is Hsu, Bei and Shiling, yeah the three people you talked to for 2 minutes, they will help us now.
We dont have any character information about them, no background or anything but Ryo and Ren cant go alone.
But please stay at the boat now, we only need Ryo and Ren for this mission ...
Oh here in this cell is Shenhuas father, no big deal.
Oh that girl was Niao Sun the whole time and she was the one who guided us to the Red Snakes ... okay,
but ... thats it? We are just moving on? Ehh, Shenhua, just run away, its fine. Niao Sun is not a threat ... ?
Its time for Ryo's new move, no one saw this coming. And now all of a sudden Hsu, Bei and Shiling are following us ...
and it seems like they are completely overpowered. Everything is a joke for them.
Why? Where are they going exactly and why dont they see Niao Sun on their way? No idea.
Back to Ryo and Ren. Lets get rid of Lan Dis bodyguards in 60 seconds and then attack Lan Di and ... and ...
and thats it. Lets run away with Ren. Hsu, Bei, Shiling are suddenly at the boat,
Ryo and Ren dont encounter Niao Sun even though she was in front of the door ... Lan Di has no interest in anything.
No scene with Shenhua and her father, no dialogue or anything with Hsu, Bei or Shiling
or any extra details about Mr Muscles or whatever ...
And then Ryos dialogue in the Shenmue 4 teaser clip "Dont you run Lan Di ..." uhm, Ryo.

I'm sorry but that is really really weak.
I mean at least we fans know some small details because of interviews with Yu Suzuki or early script pages and so on,
we kind of know the direction and what it is about but imagine the finale for players who are completely new.
There are almost no answers, details or explanations about anything. Here are all of these new characters
on the good and bad side but you dont get to know them at all. Not even a little bit. They just exist.
The build up, character details, scene pacing and execution in S 1 & 2 felt way more elaborated.

I still love the rest of the game, dialogue system (asking around, talking to Shenhua), character designs, fighting,
leveling, exploring, all good.
But that story and character writing style ... i dont know.
 
MJC The Great said:
This may sound strange but I wish they had spent the majority of time, money and resources on the first and final chapters. I think those are the main places where the story could have advanced. For me, no matter how beautiful and amazing Niaowu is, if one chapter/area had to be rushed and left unfinished, I would far rather it was that one. Bailu village and wherever the confrontation with Lan Di was to take place should have been the whole game.
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I suspect, given that the consensus is that in terms of quality, Shenmue III goes like this, Bailu>Niaowu>Fortified Castle, that they were developed in that order, with them not really moving onto Niaowu until Yu-san was satisfied with Bailu. Obviously, at some point, they realised that doing a full third area would not be viable on the budget, so replaced Baishi with the Fortified Castle. When they eventually moved onto Niaowu, they probably did so still thinking that they had the time and money to do the Fortified Castle properly. Unfortunately, as we know, that was not the case. What the full plot for Niaowu was supposed to be (before Baishi was cut) I have no idea, but it may have suffered also when they realised that they were going to have to link it into the endgame at the castle. In fact, given how much Yu-san played up Niao Sun's role in this game, I would almost put money on it. Regardless, it seems almost certain that time and money were running thin and so they had to put together whatever they could. As I said elsewhere, a lot happens in a very short space of time in the Fortified Castle (Niao sun revealed, loss of the phoenix mirror, fight with Lan Di, Niao Sun's betrayal, the revelation about Zhao Sunming and the discovery of the next stop on the journey), however, it all happens over such a short space of time that it lacks the weight and depth that would have come had it unfolded according to the original plan. Let's be honest, the main plot points of that closing segment would have made for a very dramatic ending had Yu-san been able to do it all properly.
 
Yes, fat guy who looks like Zixiong with different hair and broom girl completely ruined any tension and sense of danger there could have been.

Also, where the fuck was this castle "fortified"? It wasn't even guarded. Ryo and Ren just got off the boat and walked in there. Compare that to Yellow Head Building. It's so sad.
 
I think that narrative speaking the main problem of the whole game, specially the ending, is that there is no transition shots at all. I know that they are maybe expensive to create, but once you finish in Bailu there is no "let's go on to the boat" it is just "boom, next location", same thing for the ending, I have no problem with what they told but with how they did it. Sometimes it just feel like "we are running out of film, just shot the highlight of the scripts" kind of feeling
 
For me, the most bizarre part of the fortified castle part of the game was the shopkeeper wanting me to go upstairs and find the 3 items. It's the finale of the game, and here I am doing a dull fetch quest for a shopkeeper - wtf!? It didn't take long, but it was so out of place at that part of the game and I fail to see what purpose it served.
 
Incognito_D said:
For me, the most bizarre part of the fortified castle part of the game was the shopkeeper wanting me to go upstairs and find the 3 items. It's the finale of the game, and here I am doing a dull fetch quest for a shopkeeper - wtf!? It didn't take long, but it was so out of place at that part of the game and I fail to see what purpose it served.
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Maybe the shopkeeper is another one of the Chi You Men leaders in disguise. Why else would there be a shopkeeper in an abandoned and restricted area?
 
hyo_razuki said:
Yes, fat guy who looks like Zixiong with different hair and broom girl completely ruined any tension and sense of danger there could have been.

Also, where the fuck was this castle "fortified"? It wasn't even guarded. Ryo and Ren just got off the boat and walked in there. Compare that to Yellow Head Building. It's so sad.
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That wasn't the castle.

The castle was further up the stairs where he confronted the Red Snakes boss.
The walkway to it however was fortified. As seen when Niao Sun told Ryo and Ren that 'Lan Di is in the castle'
 
hyo_razuki said:
Also, where the fuck was this castle "fortified"? It wasn't even guarded. Ryo and Ren just got off the boat and walked in there. Compare that to Yellow Head Building. It's so sad.
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Could be a mistranslation since the Fortified Castle literally means "the ancient castle on the opposite bank" (対岸の古城) in Japanese.
 
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