Niaowu's relevance to the plot

[Niaxi]

Actually I find it weirder that he never left with Ryo for Bailu in II moreso than him just magically appearing in III. For someone who was sniffing treasure, he seemed to have zero problem with letting Ryo leave on his own instead of tagging along with his one big vital clue.

If think this was a case of plot over character motivations. Yu-san obviously wanted Ryo and Shenhua to be alone for a time so they could interact without Ren getting in the way.

I'm a big fan of Ren, but felt he needed more time and interactions with Ryo in Shenmue 3. I think it would be interesting to find out what Yu-san had intended to do with the story/characters, before he had to compromise on his vision.

 

[danielmann861]

If think this was a case of plot over character motivations. Yu-san obviously wanted Ryo and Shenhua to be alone for a time so they could interact without Ren getting in the way.

I'm a big fan of Ren, but felt he needed more time and interactions with Ryo in Shenmue 3. I think it would be interesting to find out what Yu-san had intended to do with the story/characters, before he had to compromise on his vision.

Yeah I gathered that was the case too, but still, people keep saying how weird it is he showed up in III randomly...I find that less weird than him letting his one big vital clue out of his sight at the end of II. If I was really that keen on treasure, I know I wouldn't let my one big vital clue out of sight.

So I can only assume, being the street wise thug that he is, he has his ear to the ground and he's following the Chi You Men (hence showing up in Chobu)...to me, that wasn't hard to deduce, hence I had zero problem with the way he showed up in III. That's less weird to me than him letting Ryo out of his sight at the end of II.

 

[sbkodama]

I haven't read everything but after finishing it, to me niaowu was only here to introduce niao sun.

 

[iknifaugood]

to me niaowu was only here to introduce niao sun.

Who? Do you mean the woman with the red hair? How do you know her name is Niao Sun?

 

[sbkodama]

Who? Do you mean the woman with the red hair? How do you know her name is Niao Sun?

Because Im fan of the first two and looked for info years ago but you are right and I should rephrase it by "niaowu was only here to introduce a woman that want the mirror and to take over the chi you men".

 

[SMDzero]

Because Im fan of the first two and looked for info years ago but you are right and I should rephrase it by "niaowu was only here to introduce a woman that want the mirror and to take over the chi you men".

I have to admit I was floored when I found out the Li Feng was Niao Sun.

 

[Lan Di-sama]

I have to admit I was floored when I found out the Li Feng was Niao Sun.

It clicked for me right before I learned the Reverse Body Check. It might have been more obvious if Li Feng had a plot presence at all outside a couple of conversations. And if she looked anything like Niao Sun (totally different haircut and hair color, not to mention boob size)

She's listed as Niao Sun in the credits and that's all we know about her name, but I'm sure Ryo will have a magical journal entry with her name in it at the start of 4

 

[Machsi]

I have to admit I was floored when I found out the Li Feng was Niao Sun.

I actually didn’t see it until she was acting weird at the hideout

 

[gladias9]

I have to admit I was floored when I found out the Li Feng was Niao Sun.

Yeah but why honestly? I mean the fat guy that you can train with in Bailu Village could have taken off his face mask and revealed himself as Don Niu at the finale too and it would have been just as impactful. The whole thing was just random and pulled from nowhere.

 

[MJC The Great]

I have to admit I was floored when I found out the Li Feng was Niao Sun.

I never thought that Li Feng and Niao Sun were the same person until the reveal but I did wonder if she would turn out to be either a villain or a spy for someone when I first saw her on the boat arriving in Niaowu. Maybe I'm just paranoid lol.

 

[SMDzero]

I have to wonder who was hotter... Niao Sun or Li Feng?

I know the answer seems rather obvious.... buuuuut Li Feng had a cute girl next door thing going on.

Thoughts?

 

[Sh3ppy]

Yeah but why honestly? I mean the fat guy that you can train with in Bailu Village could have taken off his face mask and revealed himself as Don Niu at the finale too and it would have been just as impactful. The whole thing was just random and pulled from nowhere.

Because she probably wasn’t as likely to get information out of Ryo and especially Shenhua if she was dressed as she normally does. Her appearance inspired more trust. Shenhua at one point tells ryo she was asking all sorts of questions about them. So not random at all unless you ignore the above.

I personally loved it the reveal.

 

[Gjb1985]

[/QUOTE]

Because she probably wasn’t as likely to get information out of Ryo and especially Shenhua if she was dressed as she normally does. Her appearance inspired more trust. Shenhua at one point tells ryo she was asking all sorts of questions about them. So not random at all unless you ignore the above.

I personally loved it the reveal.

Why? Ryo has never seen, OR heard of niao sun. So why would he mistrust her if the was dressed as herself? Because ryo doesn't trust red haired people? Well that seems about right in how thin the plot is in this game.

 

[Miles Prower]

Yeah I gathered that was the case too, but still, people keep saying how weird it is he showed up in III randomly...I find that less weird than him letting his one big vital clue out of his sight at the end of II. If I was really that keen on treasure, I know I wouldn't let my one big vital clue out of sight.

So I can only assume, being the street wise thug that he is, he has his ear to the ground and he's following the Chi You Men (hence showing up in Chobu)...to me, that wasn't hard to deduce, hence I had zero problem with the way he showed up in III. That's less weird to me than him letting Ryo out of his sight at the end of II.

As Ren knew that Ryo was headed to Guilin, I just sort of assumed that he maybe found out how much effort/walking it would take to get to Bailu Village and decided instead to go to Niaowu - as it is also in Guilin, and also I would assume easier for the average person to travel to, given its an urban area, and that Ryo would probably end up there eventually

 

[iknifaugood]

I have to wonder who was hotter... Niao Sun or Li Feng?

Well I mean Niao Sun did burn the castle down, I guess you could say that was pretty... HOT.

I'll let myself out.

Her appearance inspired more trust. Shenhua at one point tells ryo she was asking all sorts of questions about them. So not random at all unless you ignore the above.

The reason this twist doesn't work is that we have no reason to suspect anything is going on and we have no context as to who she is. If you want to see a twist like this done well, you should watch The Usual Suspects. In that movie we understand who both characters are (one is a cowardly narc, the other is a ruthless drug lord) and why it's so unlikely that they're the same person. The mystery of "who is Keyser Soze" is also central to the plot as opposed to Shenmue 3 where you have no idea who Niao Sun is or why she's important even after the reveal.

For it to work in S3 before the reveal we'd need to know, at a minimum:
1. Who Niao Sun is at least by reputation (say she "runs" Niaowu the same way Dou Niu ran Kowloon and she's known for being a seductress)
2. Who Li Feng is (she's a kind-hearted mother figure who helps Ryo)
3. Niao Sun needs to be central to the plot (she works for the Chi You Men, knows where Lan Di is, and wants the Phoenix Mirror)
4. Li Feng needs to not be central to the plot (she hangs around the background and helps Ryo after fights or something so Ryo actually befriends her/ lets his guard down)

That way when the reveal happens we have enough information to connect the dots and be surprised. As it stands, when Niao Sun is revealed, there's no sense of betrayal because Ryo never trusted her and there's no sense of surprise because we have no idea who Niao Sun is (she's not even named ffs).

TL;DR it's fine if you liked it, people liked Daenerys' turn to the dark side in Game of Thrones, but that does not mean that it was properly set up from a storytelling perspective.

 

[Miles Prower]

Funnily enough Game of Thrones' last season was the first thing I thought of in terms of how rushed Niao Sun's introduction/the ending in general was! I only hope the story going forward won't be similarly rushed/devoid of set-up

 

[Sh3ppy]

Why? Ryo has never seen, OR heard of niao sun. So why would he mistrust her if the was dressed as herself? Because ryo doesn't trust red haired people? Well that seems about right in how thin the plot is in this game.
[/QUOTE]

Well it would seem to me Ryo, and more importantly Shenhua would probably feel more trusting of someone that came across as wholesome and innocent than the way Niao Sun comes across with her overall look. Appearances make a difference sometimes. Even subconsciously. It’s really not a difficult concept.

 

[iknifaugood]

Funnily enough Game of Thrones' last season was the first thing I thought of in terms of how rushed Niao Sun's introduction/the ending in general was! I only hope the story going forward won't be similarly rushed/devoid of set-up

Same. Obviously S3 didn't do the same level of damage that GoT S8 did because that was the actual ending but it was still a massive dip in quality from what came before and felt extremely rushed.

 

[Lan Di-sama]

Why? Ryo has never seen, OR heard of niao sun. So why would he mistrust her if the was dressed as herself? Because ryo doesn't trust red haired people? Well that seems about right in how thin the plot is in this game.

Well it would seem to me Ryo, and more importantly Shenhua would probably feel more trusting of someone that came across as wholesome and innocent than the way Niao Sun comes across with her overall look. Appearances make a difference sometimes. Even subconsciously. It’s really not a difficult concept.
[/QUOTE]

The issue is Ryo and Shenhua told Li Feng nothing to indicate this disguise was a ploy to find the mirror. She didn't gain their trust to the point where they revealed anything of use to her. Even a scene with Li Feng and Ren where Ren blabs about what they're up to could have gone a long way in actually giving Li Feng a purpose.

 

[Sh3ppy]

Well it would seem to me Ryo, and more importantly Shenhua would probably feel more trusting of someone that came across as wholesome and innocent than the way Niao Sun comes across with her overall look. Appearances make a difference sometimes. Even subconsciously. It’s really not a difficult concept.

The issue is Ryo and Shenhua told Li Feng nothing to indicate this disguise was a ploy to find the mirror. She didn't gain their trust to the point where they revealed anything of use to her. Even a scene with Li Feng and Ren where Ren blabs about what they're up to could have gone a long way in actually giving Li Feng a purpose.
[/QUOTE]

Could their interactions have been more fleshed out? Yeah of course. But we do know going from what Shenhua tells Ryo, that she encounters her numerous times while out and about. I’m thinking that even if we don’t explicitly see their interactions, Shenhua may have told her more than she even realised. Again, it would have been nice to see more details but that is what the narrative is trying to get across. At least that’s very much what I got during my first run through.

edit, not sure what’s going on with the quoting here.Tried to fix it.