Politics

spud1897

spud1897

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Jul 24, 2018
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England
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Shenmue II
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Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
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Come in here to discuss politics.... just not too much Brexit :p
 
I live in Michigan in the States choosing Governor candidates is going to be a challenge this term.
 
What is your political ideology? I, myself, am a leftist
 
Jigen said:
Center-right just a tad. I guess I am an independent I have views on both sides.
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Sounds like a healthy position to have. I think I used to be a centrist myself but as I got older the more leftist I became for some reason
 
Started off slightly more left and as I grew older, went significantly right. I would say the last couple of years probably centre right/libertarian.

Unfortunately politics have caused many lost friends, arguments and a general unwillingness for me to want to engage others on opposing topics as it has very negative consequences.

I generally hate being lumped into groups or having someone assume I am something that is only the cause of their perception.

I suppose age, being married and having a son now, a wife from another country and being exposed to a different culture and traveling internationally has made me a bit more soft and empathetic and compassionate towards certain issues while also reinforcing and generally hardening my views on other things.
 
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Very liberal. I'll refrain from posting how I feel about "both sides" lest I get banned the same time I signed up.
 
I always get a bit sad when I read about politics ending friendships. I've got a few mates who have relatively different political views to me. We often debate and a lot of the time they can get quite heated, but at the end of them we're always like "Right, that was good. Want to play some video games now?".
 
Jibby said:
I always get a bit sad when I read about politics ending friendships. I've got a few mates who have relatively different political views to me. We often debate and a lot of the time they can get quite heated, but at the end of them we're always like "Right, that was good. Want to play some video games now?".
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I wish it was like that here.
In my area there is not much of a balance, generally the older population are more religious and conservative, less open about new things and development of the area.

The younger generation outside of the churchgoers are usually more liberal but think more social justice activist.

Both sides are quite intolerant to any slight opposition of opinion. I take elements from both sides but I have alienated myself as well from both sides because I won't compromise on certain things and it has become challenging. It's not that I am politically active but there are things that will raise eyebrows and the topics end up political when I am trying my best to avoid them.

example
"post video of me at shooting range"
"Why do you need an AR15?"

"post video of me at a armin van buuren trance music event hanging out with people flying gay pride flag"

Some random conservative
"Why are you participating in this sinful event?"

There is no solution and no way to satisfy everyone without pissing someone off.

The friends I have lost generally only see the side of me they want to see without realizing or respecting the fact I am not trying to impose anything on anyone. I simply want the same as everyone else, a happy life, to support my family and to be healthy.
 
I just really disagree that what I consider basic human rights and decency can be considered as politics or political.

I don't feel that my right to exist while being a member of several minorities is a political opinion. Also, I said I wouldn't get I to it but alas, I can't refrain, I think "both sides" is just factually wrong. As there is one side that is pro civil rights, pro choice, pro LGBT, pro gun control, pro net neutrality, pro environment, pro helping those in need, and anti racist, and then there is the other side that has it in their official agenda they are against these things. Yet I keep being told that somehow they're the same.


I personally can not find it in myself to be friends with anyone who'd try to debate away my very right to exist and then merely suggest it falls under the banner of political opinion.

So, yeah, I have lost relationships from those I used to respect, and I agree it's hard to go through but for me, it's better than the alternative. Also if anyone tries to use the term "SJW" non ironically and to criticize those who actually want true social justice, they're personally not worth my time anyway.
 
Perhaps I should note that the kind of politics I'm referring to stuff like government decisions, Scottish independence, nationalism etc. and not the social issues that you bring up.

When somebody argues your right to exist then yes, I can understand wanting to distance yourself from said person. That's totally reasonable.

But I'm not going to stop being mates with someone because of differing opinions in stuff like Independence or Brexit.
 
I wouldn't say I'd stop being friends with someone because they'd want to succeed. Rather I'd question the reason they want such a thing. The ideal isn't inheritly bad in itself.
 
I'm independent on everything, which is why I hate all this extremist nonsense that's been all over the media these last few years... People gotta learn to take care of themselves and stop blaming everyone else for their problems, while simultaneously working the make the world a better place for everyone overall. I can't stand how people seem to think the two are mutually exclusive...
 
I am social democrat here in Germany, so like center left. Not too happy with our social democratic party right now but similiar parties have problems all over Europe.

Politics in Germany are for the most part a stable and kinda boring affair. irl I never had a heated politics debate that could end a friendship.
 
ShenmueTree said:
I just really disagree that what I consider basic human rights and decency can be considered as politics or political.

I don't feel that my right to exist while being a member of several minorities is a political opinion. Also, I said I wouldn't get I to it but alas, I can't refrain, I think "both sides" is just factually wrong. As there is one side that is pro civil rights, pro choice, pro LGBT, pro gun control, pro net neutrality, pro environment, pro helping those in need, and anti racist, and then there is the other side that has it in their official agenda they are against these things. Yet I keep being told that somehow they're the same.


I personally can not find it in myself to be friends with anyone who'd try to debate away my very right to exist and then merely suggest it falls under the banner of political opinion.

So, yeah, I have lost relationships from those I used to respect, and I agree it's hard to go through but for me, it's better than the alternative. Also if anyone tries to use the term "SJW" non ironically and to criticize those who actually want true social justice, they're personally not worth my time anyway.
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I can certainly understand your feelings about your right to exist and why political stances could create those issues but there was a great quote in the movie Defiance where the Jews were hiding in the forest and the quote from the rabbi

"To the west there is a man with a little moustache who wants to kill us and to the east a man with a big moustache that wants to kill us"

To summarize, this is usually why I am cautious because I take a completely different stance on certain issues for various reasons and do not fall in line and I certainly want to bring up a couple of points here.

-The topic of immigration comes up here constantly from both sides; one side wants more strict immigration policies while the other wants more lax immigration controls.

My wife was born in Colombia so I understand how the immigration policies work, additionally my wifes family all have tourist visas to come here and had to go through various screening. My wife has been in the country for 6 years and now speaks fluent English. She is probably far more conservative on immigration policy than I am and much of her family in Texas is the same because they worked hard for it.

The particular issue is that it is very difficult to have this discussion with others because if you were to ask some Conservatives, they will give you a hardline answer, with some Liberals it is the same. What I can say is that Colombia has immigration controls, Japan also has very strict immigration policies that forbid felons from making it past immigration, there was even a situation where Japan was offering to pay Brazilians to have them leave and not return.

The specific reason I bring this up is that the discussion immediately turns to a conservative = anti immigration liberal = pro immigration when that hasn't always been the case, and you can see this in some of Bill Clintons early speeches or Roosevelts policies towards Germans Italians and Japanese.

Regarding the other issues you mentioned regarding pro choice, civil rights, gun control, lgbt, pro environment, that is also subjective. You have Republicans who are completely pro gun control like Mitt Romney and Rudy Guiliani who were for strict gun control yet others who were far more liberal like Ron Paul who opposed any restrictions. I cannot think of anyone who would be against civil rights unless we are talking about David Duke, LGBT is more of an issue with the religious conservative but Libertarians support the rights of individual freedom so I don't feel any different about a persons choice.

Regarding the term SJW, it's a specific connotation in reference to a particular ideology that one follows same as the extreme right are nazi or fascist. Much of these terms came about during the gamer gate controversy and there were people legitimately affected like Daniel Vavra who was developing Kingdom Come Deliverance and the media/Kotaku were basically boycotting any reviews or acknowledment of the game as Daniel Vavra did not want to change a historically accurate game to be inclusive without reason. This was the same Kotaku that claimed Shenmue was dead.

Look I am open to dialogue, I don't hate anyone and I don't want you to feel like I want to deprive you of anything. If I ran a bakery I would serve everyone, if you were an illegal immigrant I wouldnt ask you questions about your status or call USCIS, if you were concealing a weapon and were a law abiding citizen I don't want to know, that's your business and as long as you aren't pulling it out threatening others unless you are defending yourself, I won't question you. If you are a woman wearing a birth control device or a guy wearing a dress, I don't care, if we can have a beer together and play Shenmue, you are ok in my book.

The only exception to that is when it personally affects my family, my extended family, my son or myself. When someone is attempting to confiscate my property or tell me what I can play, watch, how many guns I can own, what music I can listen to, what my wife and I do in our private bedroom, or where I can live and it isn't harming others, that is where I draw my line.

I grew up with a Jewish father and a mom who is (present as she is still alive) German although she converted to Judaism. Being half and half was always difficult because other Jews never saw me as really Jewish and the idea I had a German mom was particularly difficult for them to accept. On the other hand, those who hate Jews simply were able to identify me based on my last name and living in what is technically the deep south, I have experienced some of the worst things a person could say to another individual. Ironically I have also been very forgiving in many cases and seen people change after just chatting with them.

Being exposed to Southern culture as someone who grew up a city boy also opened my mind more to understanding small town issues and that people are just people no matter where you go. I probably would have never learned about guns before I moved here.
 
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If you listened to the news or social media you would think that everyone on the left wants to knock down all boarders and let everyone in including murderers and terrorists while taking away the gender section on forms you fill out. While the right want to send gay people to camps to turn them straight and kill all black people.

The reality of the matter is that there is a vocal minority who bang on about this stuff from both sides and with the amount these idiots get covered it makes them the faces of both sides.

If you actually talk to people in real life you'll find that most people are quite level headed and can have a normal discussion about politics even when you have different views. Most of the people who scream and shout and get upset about it normally don't have a clue what they're talking about and don't want to be proven wrong. Whenever I've spoken about politics with someone in real life and they get upset they normally want to stop the conversation at the point you prove them wrong and they have nothing to say and don't want to admit they was wrong.

America is a different kettle of fish entirely. Sadly America tries to take everything to the extreme with everything from food to politics.

One day the media/people on social media will realise that banging on about Trump like he's the anti Christ will realise that they're helping him. If I was American I wouldn't have voted for the guy but even I can see why he got voted in and it's not because everyone who voted for him is a racist.
 
Riku Rose said:
If you listened to the news or social media you would think that everyone on the left wants to knock down all boarders and let everyone in including murderers and terrorists while taking away the gender section on forms you fill out. While the right want to send gay people to camps to turn them straight and kill all black people.

The reality of the matter is that there is a vocal minority who bang on about this stuff from both sides and with the amount these idiots get covered it makes them the faces of both sides.

If you actually talk to people in real life you'll find that most people are quite level headed and can have a normal discussion about politics even when you have different views. Most of the people who scream and shout and get upset about it normally don't have a clue what they're talking about and don't want to be proven wrong. Whenever I've spoken about politics with someone in real life and they get upset they normally want to stop the conversation at the point you prove them wrong and they have nothing to say and don't want to admit they was wrong.

America is a different kettle of fish entirely. Sadly America tries to take everything to the extreme with everything from food to politics.

One day the media/people on social media will realise that banging on about Trump like he's the anti Christ will realise that they're helping him. If I was American I wouldn't have voted for the guy but even I can see why he got voted in and it's not because everyone who voted for him is a racist.
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Well said, a lot of this is primarily an internet phenomenon and is far from the actual reality. I have friends that live up North and on the West coast who will not visit the Southern United States because they believe it is heavily inhabited by closet racists when the reality is it's not as common as say even the larger cities. It's actually quite abundant to see racially mixed children especially due to military presence here as we get a lot of Navy/Air Force.

Most of the particular issues I see are on social media where you have these individuals (both sides) posting non stop about politics and harping on who people voted for, I actually become sick and tired of hearing about it because it's toxic and negative in general. I don't know why people chose to vote the way they did and it's not my place to really berate them over it as it's their decision.

What I can definitely say is that growing up in the Chicago suburbs, there is and was very much a serious issue with racism/segregation that was very much prevalent and still is prevalent but never talked about in the media. During the 1968 race riots, the west side/Lawndale/Austin were burned down and there were serious issues throughout the suburban areas like Cicero. Housing covenants existed well past the 70's and redlining discrimination. You will not hear a word about it in the public school system up there but they will continue to bring up issues about the Southern United States.

To be completely fair and open about this, I am not giving the Southern United States a pass either, there are problems here. While I doubt there is specific intent, there's problems with the dominant baptist/pentacostal churches that have political motives regarding political lobbying to shut down bars/pass alcohol restrictions in the counties and a general intolerance to those who have different views from themselves. We have street preachers holding signs every Saturday off of the interstate ramp yelling how non believers are going to hell for not following what they follow. That is not the majority of churches but a minority and I would say a fair amount of my friends attend churches which I take no issue with.

The particular issues I've encountered are generally friends I went to highschool with, many still in the Chicago area who have become politically active and hostile towards my views and there is nothing that I can say to justify or change their mind. I've been pretty open that I would still remain friends but I've experienced being excommunicated and cut off because I chose to ignore the subjects or did not want to engage them in the particular discussion. I find that incredibly sad that because I will not give up something or spread their message that suddenly I am not worthy of being a friend. The same applies when I hear a celebrity, a musician or an actor take a stand for something and alienates their own fans. I can have a disagreement with someone over something and still respect them and treat them like family, today it's different especially in the United States because the vocal groups have disenfranchised anyone who has opposing views and essentially pitted all of us against each other.
 
My opinion is let them cut people out of their lives over petty shit, it will blow up in their faces sooner or later.

You're seeing it now with the James Gunn situation, I think it's silly he got fired but it's amazing people trying to say he shouldn't have been fired since he's anti Trump when if it was a pro Trump director they would be dancing in the streets that he lost his job.

Everyone has at least one controversial opinion, stupid post they regret on social media from years ago or can be prone to say something stupid even if they don't really mean it. Let them keep pointing fingers and trying to shame people because two things will happen:
1) They'll be proven to be a hypocrite.
2) Eventually they'll do/say something that get's them dragged through the mud.

We're going through a unique period in time at the moment but eventually people will realise they don't need to comment or take an extreme stance on everything.
 
Politics = humans talking too much after weaponizing speech. Just love and be loved, and all solvable problems solve themselves.
 
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