Pro & Cons of Shenmue III based on Demo.

[Araviel]

A massive, surprising pro is the English VA. Always preferred JPN, always enjoyed it the most, was over the moon with the re-releases giving me SI in JPN. And yet with the demo I'm doing 50/50, in some instances preferring the ENG. I'm quite impressed with this upgrade in VA quality for the ENG.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Demons triangle is gone? If it is connected to her brother and also his style is there story retcon?

I think seeing as there's a hundred moves, it may just be gotten later. I know people hate the new brutal tiger/AKA hook kick. But herb set would get me a spin kick, if there was a pawn shop in the demo I guess. And move moves besides. I think just wait and see playing the full game, digging everywhere you can.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I'm a bit disappointed if there's no change from the demo to the finished product, because as it is I really don't like the combat at all.
I'll try it again and live with it, but I can't guarantee I'll love it
Still, Shenmue has always been about more than the combat,so it shouldn't ruin the game for me.

Well, today after work I started sparring again. Kept pulling the moves off. Then fought the monks. I finally was able to pull off what I wanted, when I wanted. Took a week or so of the finger torture. I think play some, get rid of the pre conceptions, it'll grow on you. It didn't have to on me. It's a lot like Tekken actually, but I played that even longer ago than Shenmue. And i didn't replay recently like Shenmue and VF3. Who knows, in a month you may "learn to love it baby".

 

[Dmitriy1]

Yeah, I was reading about that too. The job system....I so can't wait to get my hands on a demo (whenever they decide to release one.) That's the other game I really want to get my hands on at the moment and try out for myself.

The demo has been out a while. Almost a week. Did you pledge 100 or more?

 

[Dmitriy1]

The DE combat got better with each game. Kiwami to brought things closer to where it needed to be but Judge Eyes was much better - I put this down to both the combat being more refined (third DE game) and the fact that Yagami gets new move sets, rather than them trying to recreate existing fighting styles in a new fighting engine (so basically it helps that I have no reference to compare Yagami's move list to, unlike Kiryu where they never managed to beat 0 and 5 - where in 0 he got 4 awesome fighting styles and 5 where he gets one, insanely fleshed out fighting style, and neither 6 or Kiwami 2 managed to get close to either unfortunately, Yagami never suffered this problem!) And yeah, I'm not even touching the comparison to 7 lol! Though I was reading about some cool things on how social links etc. will be working to give you even more styles and moves in that game, can't wait!

For Shenmue 3 (and maybe 4) we first really need to know what is in and what isn't, as yeah, we have no idea yet if old moves that seem missing won't be reaquired in different ways. But either way, I believe 4 will refine combat further, as is always the case with these things. I'm just excited to play the game, and from what I've read from people who played the game at E3 ad the trial, things have improved so its not even crazy to assume maybe an extra layer of polish will be on it once the final version releases.

In the demo, the combat is just fun. Many easier moves are now situational, but the power moves use fast fast reactions with your fingers. Faster than 1&2 needed, just trust me. Besides that, you must now move into better position to actually hit them without them being blocked. It took me 6 days to learn the 5 good moves the demo gives to train. There are many more. It's a deep system, don't believe anything else.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Well considering Machine Gun Punch was an optional move that you had to buy in Shenmue II, maybe they don't see it as Cannon? Or who knows? Maybe it is available to buy as a scroll somewhere in one of the many shops in Shenmue III? I mean, the ground sweep is available at the Tao Get store so what else from the old games will be available in the stores to buy? The ground sweep is vital in my opinion, but you don't have it on you by default. You have to buy it at the Tao Get store, so it makes me wonder what else will make a return to be purchased in store?

I love Machine Gun Punch, but I wouldn't be torn up if it wasn't in the game...but I wouldn't be surprised if it is somewhere to be found in one of the many stores either. We just don't know yet.

Yeah, I remember Yakuza 6 and the people who weren't happy with its combat change (let's not even get into Yakuza 7,shall we )...I still don't mind the dragon engine...and I completely understood why things didn't make the cut for Yakuza 6 (new engine and all...they had to rebuild things from scratch)

But you're right, if we get to Shenmue IV then the ground work is already laid. The tools are in place and they could theoretically build onto what they have...which to me, is already off to a good start. I hope we get to Shenmue IV...because I want to see this get fleshed out even more and you just know they could do that in IV considering the foundations have been laid.

In fact, I might even say that if the Yakuza series ever goes back to real time action (depending on how the shift to turn based plays out for them) then I would say to RGG studios to take a look at this combat system because it's actually doing some interesting things.

Read the lower right description of the move. It's a left right combination. Wait till you see it in action. It may be your machine gun fist. There's absolutely no way to earn it in the demo, so it'll have to be seen in November if you get your wish.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Shenmue should had been an upgrade of the Past and not remove things that were part of the main storyline.
Yes, new moves going to come but I doubt any as exciting as Machine gun Fist.
It seems you would accept anything even if it mediocre.
But we need to let them know how to improve the game.
Since it will affect the future of the franchise and we may not get Shenmue IV at all.
I do hope some moves come back in the real game.
Removing animations by Performing throw and counters is a serious blow and many people will not like this at all.

Read the description on the lower right. Knowing them, expect having to press 6 buttons in a row all over to make it happen. I think people just need some patience. He said long ago not all moves will be simply for sale. Side stuff will give many of them. To make sure you do side stuff too.

 

[Dmitriy1]

If one thing, This demo proves that Sega were idiots for leaving Suzuki out to dry like they did for the last two decade. Sega would of been a software powerhouse if Yu & AM2 was allowed to keep cranking out avant-garde projects.

They thought Yakuza was going to be their new it. Instead they ruined what would have been many more loyal fans waiting for each new part of a grand story. You think they got a lot more via the profanity, gore, and such like? I doubt it. Those had their GTA and preferred it to Yakuza IMO. They got the old SEGA fans, but those will never admit they were cheated out of Shenmue in the early 2000s by some very bad decisions. From what I've read now, in Japan, and I know here too. It's much more stupid mobile phone games. Dumb, stupid, but there on the go for them. It's a huge shame he couldn't do it in 2004-2006. It'd feel exactly right then. I'm pulling for him to go all out now. Just for the fans. Shen 4 might have to be crowd funded again, he's got my cash if so.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I get where you're coming from, but there is a fine line between "useful walking speed" and "a bit too slow, so I'll just run everywhere". I think going for a slightly quicker walking speed was probably the right move, as that's what most people expect nowadays.

As for the animation itself, I'm totally fine with it. It may not be the most natural walking/running I've ever seen in a game, but it's more natural than his robo-jog from the previous games (it was super impressive at the time, of course).

Well you've gotta gather at least for the 3 moves rewards. That you do best in first person, and you really soak in the beauty. The speed of his walk I'm OK with, his arms going like he's jogging I hope are made less so for the plain walk.

 

[Dmitriy1]

You want to stop with Machine Gun Fist and all that?

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT NEW/OLD MOVES EXIST AND IF/WHEN WE WILL EVER LEARN SOMETHING THAT MAY BE EVEN BETTER THAN MGF.

Seriously, just drop it; we heard your grievances and we get it. They are not going to add a brand new system and things, just because you want it.

Take what we are getting or leave it; with the budget and everything, we are lucky to even get a game like this. The staff have been working tirelessly on the game for 3+ years, we can all assure you that the staff have done the most they can to get the game done to the fullest of their abilities.

If you STILL can't appreciate it, then you're just trolling at that point.

We are Shenmue fans, part of one of the greatest communities in gaming history (literally); we've waited 2 generations, essentially, for a continuation to the series that has changed so many of our lives for the better. Not only are we getting something incredible, given the situation in regards to the development, but it is beyond any of our expectations, especially since the majority of us were content with supplementary material to finish the story.

But no, you don't care about any of that because they got rid of Machinegun Fist.

Read the description of the move on the lower right.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Dude, even if the throw moves are back, the fighhting will never be the same as vf.
Just cause he wants them back doesn't mean he wants the combat exactly the same. He already stated many times he wants a different combat system.

1999 glasses means crying over the no loading screens, crying over the change in combat, crying over the change in shenhua's appearance, crying over her voice, crying over the no SEGA toys in the game, crying over the no hang on and space harrier that people played 1238494745929 times allready.... Those are the 1999 video game glasses for you.
Like I said many times now. We should apreciate this game for what it IS.

Besides they can just replay 1&2 before the 3rd to look at SEGA toys, and play old arcades again. It's not like 1&2 weren't remade for PC and consoles. I will scream if there are no darts in 3 though. I hated those stands with a ball in Shenmue 2, that's the one thing he could have left back there. Please don't tell me though since Yakuza stole darts and had them, Shenmue 3 can't have them. They aren't a SEGA arcade. I hope I'm wrong, and the darts just aren't in the demo. Many things aren't.

 

[sporkaganza]

... Did you just... decuple-post??

This isn't a Facebook page, this is a real forum! Back in my day, mods got annoyed if people made TWO posts in a row. Kids these days with their modern social media......

 

[Dmitriy1]

... Did you just... decuple-post??

This isn't a Facebook page, this is a real forum! Back in my day, mods got annoyed if people made TWO posts in a row. Kids these days with their modern social media......

I was trying to have as many people as possible see that their machine gun fist is in under a different name. Hoped answering each in turn alerts each of them to see it. I'm 45, guess that's a kid too. I didn't use social media till very recently either.

 

[sporkaganza]

You're 20 years older than me, haha, I'm just Internet Old™. Sorry for assuming

 

[Ren]

It's unfortunate Yu Suzuki didn't hand over the reigns to you and let you direct your perfect Shenmue, but alas.

Yu Suzuki did a great job except the combat everything else feels Shenmue.
It's amazing since he didn't touch this game for years. The game world formula is there.

 

[Ren]

Sega did got a new Ceo and Nagoshi is on the board holding a high position. With Yu being a Sega legend and still holding an advisory position, I think the devil has to be somewhere in between those details. But the Prev Sammy CEo who overtook Sega's operations is most likely the culprit since a lot of the AM divisions were disassembled and broken up shortly after.



Um...Sega brands is in the game. Astro City arcade machines, Big Title, even the music(Afterburner) and Shenmue I&II capsule toys are Sega property since they own Shenmue...this is why Yu boldly claims Sega fans will find lots of direct easter eggs nodding to the publisher.

What new CEO? After reading your comment I did a search and Kajime is still the CEO of Sega, thought he retired.
The main culprit was Sega of America CEO who decided to cancel Shenmue II for dreamcast and send it to xbox instead a console with no market at all that is why Shenmue II got terrible sales and was branded a failure.
If Shenmue was on PS2 we would had Shenmue 6 by now.
Of Course Sammy was main culprit, they forced Sega to merge with them by using dirty tactics. The originally planned to merge but then Sega changed their minds so, Sammy took revenge and took over by force. They closed down most independent Sega studios, caused major layoff and limited the release of games especially in the west.

 

[Ren]

Will be prolly in the full game. The Demo doesn't have an exhaustive list nor any new moves.

Demon Triangle was a throw move so yes is gone. Even through the animation is a hit move.
But this move had story value, so even if it back with different name it will not be the same.

 

[Ren]

Read the description on the lower right. Knowing them, expect having to press 6 buttons in a row all over to make it happen. I think people just need some patience. He said long ago not all moves will be simply for sale. Side stuff will give many of them. To make sure you do side stuff too.
View attachment 4647

Yes saw that move before, but without the kick in the end it will not look as epic.
It seems now that only few most can be mastered and the moves you can master don't evolve to more hits, just more damage.
I was proud that I made 1700+money normally in the game but you probably used used cheat engine since is so early in the game.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Yes saw that move before, but without the kick in the end it will not look as epic.
It seems now that only few most can be mastered and the moves you can master don't evolve to more hits, just more damage.
I was proud that I made 1700+money normally in the game but you probably used used cheat engine since is so early in the game.
View attachment 4663

I did. I could earn easily via wood and herbs. But there's no way to then train also. Though now there's a way to do it all in the same demo thankfully. There's not so much to do with the sum either. Look, a lot of what's driving you there is nostalgia. Shenmue 2 for example has screwed up my personal favorite Tengu Drop. It also messed up a few kicks too. I can replay to confirm exactly which. Unless you are from Europe, which I doubt. We had to import Shenmue 2. All you might have done in 1 didn't just transfer. Even in those 2 short years many things got changed. Some for the better, some for the worse. Nothing staid the same even in part 2 that was being done almost at once with 1. You need to spar in the 3rd, get rid of your expectations. Learn 5 moves at least so you can do them at will. More will come that will be harder to do. This system is way more like Tekken, only in that one sometimes you did need 1 directional button, here they went for full freedom of movement with your left stick, and lots of moves with your 5 buttons. You sound like you'd not be happy unless every single thing from VF was in. I replayed this morning, the only thing I'm not happy about it there are no pawnshops in the demo to learn a few more moves. If the demon triangle that you couldn't use once unless it was in collections post game is not in, OK. Compared to the screwed up Tengu Drop from 2, and none in 3 it's nothing to me. If you give 3 a fair unbiased, un-expecting chance, it will grow on you. The guy who made VF made it. You respect him for VF, respect his latest vision, and learn to use it. The throws will be back later, they'll be screwed too. My favorites will get changed. I know it, and after S2 I expect it.

 

[Vasid]

I wonder why they removed throw moves.
They did motion caption in their own office due to low budget might been the reason.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/1530741?lang=it

Before they had an entire room with special equipment.

But then again we are 20 years more advanced...

You keep saying "20 years more advanced" like that means everything should be perfect now. You realize that games technology really hasn't advanced that much right? Like modern games don't really do anything new and impressive they just have tons more people working on them, team size has inflated massively but really modern games don't really do some things better than old games. And just because there are a few advancements that doesn't mean they don't cost money or manpower.

It matters a lot that the team working on Shenmue III doesn't have a full motion capture rig set-up easily accessible, not to mention years of mocap from Virtua Fighter. If you want to know why the animations aren't as good that's it right there.

It's best to keep expectations reasonable with this game, expecting it to improve on everything II had is a bit much given that II was really the result of decades of AM2 development.