Pro & Cons of Shenmue III based on Demo.

jsh020 said:
What have you worked on?
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Nothing big, just a few indie project that weren't fully teleased due to the lead losing motivation(sigh sadly this kind of thing happens way too much, made a insane amounts of maps for one of them too).

I still have the source codes for a couple of them.
 
Shenmuevhei2 said:
Unreal engine is a beast, the best engine of this generation by far and sf5 and tekken 7 use it so for me the "unreal is awful for fightning games" quotes is bullshit,the era where you need a custom engine for everything is over
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shadowman16 said:
Fairly certain the next Guilty Gear game runs on UE4 as well, Dragonball FightersZ also runs on UE4. So yeah I agree, the engine rocks for so many different genres, fighters included :)
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Yes, Unreal Engine is used for many fighting games of note, but I do believe that it does have inherent lag problems too. You can work around them, but they aren't ideal for games that require the lowest latency possible.


At the end of the day, it's probably still a much more viable solution than a bespoke engine, but it's not ideal.

Zoltor said:
I wasn't being vague, you must of missed the post where I said the camera acts like a physical camera, and gets stopped by the wall.


It's faster then trying to fix a bug that clearly existed due to coding languages not evolving as fast as game design was at the time.

It was crap, VF 3 was when VF started to become a viable fighter, but unfortunately that's about the time SC, and the MvC series were around.
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warbb said:
You are so very wrong about that. Virtua Fighter 2 feels more responsive and consistent than most moders fighters. The Arcade version still looks good too..
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Had to chime in here to say that Virtua Fighter was a marvel of video games, and still is. I believe VF3 was more balanced but VF2 still had massive tournaments and competitive scenes. It's an amazing fighting game.
 
MadeMan said:
Yes, Unreal Engine is used for many fighting games of note, but I do believe that it does have inherent lag problems too. You can work around them, but they aren't ideal for games that require the lowest latency possible.


At the end of the day, it's probably still a much more viable solution than a bespoke engine, but it's not ideal.




Had to chime in here to say that Virtua Fighter was a marvel of video games, and still is. I believe VF3 was more balanced but VF2 still had massive tournaments and competitive scenes. It's an amazing fighting game.
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This is the exact issue I read about. Especially the lag issue this game problem to games like Street Fighter V.
 
I legitimately did not realize that SFV used UE4. It's a way better engine than UE3, don't get me wrong, but it's still kind of sad to see Capcom not using their own engine.
 
Dietsoap said:
I legitimately did not realize that SFV used UE4. It's a way better engine than UE3, don't get me wrong, but it's still kind of sad to see Capcom not using their own engine.
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First off, your avatar is amazing :)
Capcom was kinda screwed for SFV as they were kinda between engines when SFV was released. Their MT Framework engine is old and was being phased out from the previous gen, and their Phanta Rey engine was floundering. RE Engine was still a ways away from release. I do wonder what engine they go with next gen for the inevitable fighter sequel.
 
I think Shenmue 3 (combat especially) could use 1 more year of polish and balancing but what we have is definitely playable and can be a lot of fun once you figure things out.

Main thing I appreciate is that fighting fundamentals (timing, distance) can win a match even without leveling your character (while button mashing can still get you beaten). I much prefer this than had they gone more casual (like Yakuza or Dynasty Warriors).


Pros:
-Feels like Shenmue
-World looks beautiful as time of day changes
-Good Music
-Everything is at a level where the story can be enjoyed without major hinderances
-Great leveling system so far
-First person movement

Cons:
-Not AAA in fidelity or polish
-Combat System feels slightly unfinished (no throws, hit detection & reaction errors)
-Crosshairs/HUD during first person movement (hopefully this can be disabled in the future)

Based on the Demo I think the game will be a worthy successor to its predecessor, despite not getting the development team or budget it deserved.
 
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MrGogeta34 said:
I think Shenmue 3 (combat especially) could use 1 more year of polish and balancing but what we have is definitely playable and can be a lot of fun once you figure things out.

Main thing I appreciate is that fighting fundamentals (timing, distance) can win a match even without leveling your character (while button mashing can still get you beaten). I much prefer this than had they gone more casual (like Yakuza or Dynasty Warriors).


Pros:
-Feels like Shenmue
-World looks beautiful as time of day changes
-Good Music
-Everything is at a level where the story can be enjoyed without major hinderances
-Great leveling system so far
-First person movement

Cons:
-Not AAA in fidelity or polish
-Combat System feels slightly unfinished (no throws, hit detection & reaction errors)
-Crosshairs/HUD during first person movement (hopefully this can be disabled in the future)

Based on the Demo I think the game will be a worthy successor to its predecessor, despite not getting the development team or budget it deserved.
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Well it just means they'll improve the combat in the 4th. You know 1&2 used 3 games prior worth of work by the same team. The 3rd started from scratch. I do want the throws back in too though, won't kid you there.
 
I just had a scary thought; is it going to be mandatory to play the mini-game One Inch Punch and Horse Stance to 'level' my Kung Fu? I'd much rather it was like the old games where you just practiced moves, sparred or got better through the fights themselves.
I really don't want to have to go 'Press A at the right time' throughout the game.
 
MadeMan said:
I just had a scary thought; is it going to be mandatory to play the mini-game One Inch Punch and Horse Stance to 'level' my Kung Fu? I'd much rather it was like the old games where you just practiced moves, sparred or got better through the fights themselves.
I really don't want to have to go 'Press A at the right time' throughout the game.
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I think you might be disappointed. There will be some progression through fights which works on attack power, as does sparring. But the endurance is through once inch punch and horse stance.
 
MadeMan said:
I just had a scary thought; is it going to be mandatory to play the mini-game One Inch Punch and Horse Stance to 'level' my Kung Fu? I'd much rather it was like the old games where you just practiced moves, sparred or got better through the fights themselves.
I really don't want to have to go 'Press A at the right time' throughout the game.
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The stupid just stand there once in a while clicking to keep in place stance. I'm 100% with you, should have been blocks and a punch here and there maybe via QTE. One inch punch is plan fun, I don't know about you, but it was to me.
 
MadeMan said:
I just had a scary thought; is it going to be mandatory to play the mini-game One Inch Punch and Horse Stance to 'level' my Kung Fu? I'd much rather it was like the old games where you just practiced moves, sparred or got better through the fights themselves.
I really don't want to have to go 'Press A at the right time' throughout the game.
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I found a horse stance to be waste of time.
One Inch increase results more than twice as fast!
It seems to only increase HP. Yet seems like a waste of time compared to just training moves.
 
MrGogeta34 said:
I think Shenmue 3 (combat especially) could use 1 more year of polish and balancing but what we have is definitely playable and can be a lot of fun once you figure things out.

Main thing I appreciate is that fighting fundamentals (timing, distance) can win a match even without leveling your character (while button mashing can still get you beaten). I much prefer this than had they gone more casual (like Yakuza or Dynasty Warriors).


Pros:
-Feels like Shenmue
-World looks beautiful as time of day changes
-Good Music
-Everything is at a level where the story can be enjoyed without major hinderances
-Great leveling system so far
-First person movement

Cons:
-Not AAA in fidelity or polish
-Combat System feels slightly unfinished (no throws, hit detection & reaction errors)
-Crosshairs/HUD during first person movement (hopefully this can be disabled in the future)

Based on the Demo I think the game will be a worthy successor to its predecessor, despite not getting the development team or budget it deserved.
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Completely agree on the fighting engine needs around 1 year to polish.
Yu said in an interview that he would like to create a fighting game, perhaps due to his disappointment of working on the unreal engine to create the fighting engine.

I really dislike the controls as well. I prefer -> -> punch than A A B feels weird.
Don't like at all the complete change in controls.
What I dislike the most other than no throw moves is the lack of animations. Now you only hit enemy instead of causing an unique animation on them when you perform a move on them.
 
Ren said:
Completely agree on the fighting engine needs around 1 year to polish.
Yu said in an interview that he would like to create a fighting game, perhaps due to his disappointment of working on the unreal engine to create the fighting engine.

I really dislike the controls as well. I prefer -> -> punch than A A B feels weird.
Don't like at all the complete change in controls.
What I dislike the most other than no throw moves is the lack of animations. Now you only hit enemy instead of causing an unique animation on them when you perform a move on them.
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That's what's budgetary constraints will do and theres literally no more money for any delays let alone another year.

That said most people seem ok with the system
 
Yeah, it's not about an extra year of polish. It's the game they were able to create in four years, with a limited budget and a media that was hounding them about the entire game being a scam. Blame consumers for not turning Shenmue into a multimillion dollar franchise. They spent more time on building a convincing world full of Shenmue charm and less time on the combat, which is a limited aspect of the Shenmue series anyway. I'm sure it'll all work out by the next Shenmue!
 
mjqjazzbar said:
Yeah, it's not about an extra year of polish. It's the game they were able to create in four years, with a limited budget and a media that was hounding them about the entire game being a scam. Blame consumers for not turning Shenmue into a multimillion dollar franchise. They spent more time on building a convincing world full of Shenmue charm and less time on the combat, which is a limited aspect of the Shenmue series anyway. I'm sure it'll all work out by the next Shenmue!
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Of course the combat it's an evolving process.
If shenmue 4 happens , I'm sure it will be even better.
I like it a lot tho. And I've seen a lot of people on youtube and twitter also liking it quite a bit.
@Ren insists in comparing every litle aspect to the fighting of the originals, failing to see this is a new thing all together.
It sould be apreciated as such.
 
So I’ve been re playing Shenmue. I'm currently working the docks with the forklift job...so of course, I'm at the most fight heavy area of the game. Had a fight against the thugs in the warehouse. Got backed into a corner where the camera re-adjusted behind me. Because the camera angle lost all perspective it became damn near impossible to pull off anything with a directional input. Was trying to perform shadow step, couldn't do it. Was trying to perform Mud Crawl, couldn't do it. Why? Because the camera angle was fucked and was losing all perspective of where I was in 3D space.

Reaffirming my belief that D pad directions for Shenmue III would not work...especially given the camera angle that the game is fixated to.

The D-pad directionals work best in the original Shenmue when the camera hovers by your side in a traditional fighting game perspective...but the moment the camera re-aligns in tight spaces...all bets are off. Because it seems like the game has trouble telling where you are in 3D space and struggles with the input reads....this is not a problem in traditional fighting games because traditional fighting games fix their camera to a conventional left-right plane. But when you take the fundamentals of a conventional fighter and try to put them into a 3D space, it's a bit of a crap shoot. Especially when the camera is constantly readjusting on the fly and trying to fixate to the best angle.

I've got to be honest, I think I prefer the camera angle of III's combat way more. It's fixed and always keeps the action framed. Unlike the original game which was always trying to re-fix itself on the fly. Again, no idea how it's gonna play out for multi men battles (it could be a mess in multi men battles) but I liked what I played of it in the demo...the fixed angle worked well. But it also reaffirms my belief that doing any sort of directionals in that fixed camera angle would be awkward to the max.

Because when the camera fixates behind you in the original game, all bets are off when it comes to inputting directionals as the game does break a little.

The camera is, at times, a real hindrance in the original game and is a reminder of why trying to shove the mechanics of a conventional fighter that is fixed to a 2 directional plane into a 3D space isn't always the best idea. When it works, it works wonderfully, but when it breaks then it becomes a fucking pain in the ass to deal with. And there are more moments where it breaks than not. Especially when you're constantly trying to evade in the games tighter spaces.

It just reaffirms my belief that directionals in Shenmue 3 would be a hindrance more than a benefit. Especially at the camera angle the game is fixating its fights at.

Other things I've noticed? Honestly, both have their pros and cons. The original game can be quite janky at times. When it works, it works wonderfully well. But when it breaks, it becomes a bit of a jank filled mess. Throws and parries are a benefit. It does remind me that I will miss throws a little bit...but I actually think the animations in III generally look way better in some regards. Compare III's Mud Crawl with the original Mud Crawl...I think III's Mud Crawl looks way better...in every way (and is way more satisfying to pull off when it connects)

Parries and throws are the only thing I will miss, but there are other things I won't miss. Namely the sometimes janky camera system which leads to janky combat that feels more awkward than it should be. As much as I love the original game, its combat wasn't perfect by any means.

Re-playing it now is a reminder that it wasn't always perfect...when it works, it works wonderfully. But when it breaks, it becomes a real hindrance and a real pain in the ass to deal with and it really boils down to the free flow camera and its constant need to keep everything in frame.
 
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