Shenmue IV Will Happen - Here's Why!

[hyo_razuki]

Microsoft has the funds to buy Sega outright including all their IPs. I know that Sega would never sell to Microsoft which is why I’m proposing a HOSTILE takeover.

All Microsoft has to do is buy up the unsold shares of Sega/Sammy until it becomes the majority shareholder.

Then Phil Spencer visits Sega Headquarters in Tokyo and takes the CEO Haruki Satomi by the collar and kicks him in the butt out the back door.

“Out you go! Come back when you know how to make good games.”

No, thanks. I'd rather have Sega publishing their own IPs as licensed 3rd party games than Microsoft taking Sega and Atlus down the Rareware road.

Also not making good games is pretty subjective. Yes, there is the occasional shitty Sonic game but then there is the yearly Yakuza game + Yakuza spinnoffs and over the last 10 years or so, there were Valkyria Chronicles 4, Sakura Wars 6, a bunch of Persona games + licensed titles like Sonic Mania, SoR 4 and S1 & 2 Remaster which Sega made possible by funding them.

Personally, Sega are my favorite publisher on the market. Yes, they are nowhere near as innovative and exciting as they were in the 90s and early 2000s but come on. Sometimes, magic only happens once in a lifetime. AC/DC haven't recorded an album anywhere nearly as good as Highway to Hell and Back in Black in over 40 years. Does that make them a shit band or make everything they've recorded since then shit?

Dreamcast Sega have been the most magical company to ever exist in console gaming but that will never happen again and we can't uphold them to those standards nowadays.

 

[SMDzero]

No, thanks. I'd rather have Sega publishing their own IPs as licensed 3rd party games than Microsoft taking Sega and Atlus down the Rareware road.

Also not making good games is pretty subjective. Yes, there is the occasional shitty Sonic game but then there is the yearly Yakuza game + Yakuza spinnoffs and over the last 10 years or so, there were Valkyria Chronicles 4, Sakura Wars 6, a bunch of Persona games + licensed titles like Sonic Mania, SoR 4 and S1 & 2 Remaster which Sega made possible by funding them.

Personally, Sega are my favorite publisher on the market. Yes, they are nowhere near as innovative and exciting as they were in the 90s and early 2000s but come on. Sometimes, magic only happens once in a lifetime. AC/DC haven't recorded an album anywhere nearly as good as Highway to Hell and Back in Black in over 40 years. Does that make them a shit band or make everything they've recorded since then shit?

Dreamcast Sega have been the most magical company to ever exist in console gaming but that will never happen again and we can't uphold them to those standards nowadays.

The problem is that Sega isn’t really that relevant anymore in today’s gaming landscape.

When was he last time there was big news about the next big AAA title from Sega that was gonna set the world on fire? Sega just releases another Sonic and poor mans Shenmue Yakuza now and then and no one cares.

Sega is a world away from their glory days, and it didn’t have to be this way.

When Sega went 3rd party and killed the Dreamcast all the clowns like the EGM editors were so “happy” and literally pissing their pants with excitement because Sega was supposed going to from scrappy underdog console maker to a Titan 3rd party developer.

Sega then sold off all their IPs to the highest bidder…. Nintendo for Sonic, Sony got VF, Microsoft got Panzer Dragoon and Shenmue and then in short order Sega sold its soul and died.

Sega then took Yu Suzuki, (their Shigeru Miyamoto) and stripped him of all his authority canceled his projects and shunned him until he would resign. They would have outright fired him if it wouldn’t have resulted in bad press.

Sega couldn’t even be bothered to get off their ass and pitch in for Shenmue 3 development.

Sega as know it needs to be destroyed.

Fire it’s entire upper management, reestablish all the AM teams, rehire Yu Suzuki, and oh yeah get Yugi Naka out of jail while they’re at it.

Microsoft should have bought Sega to begin with in the early 2000s. If Sega won’t sell to them today then I vote HOSTILE takeover.

 

[thedemon1238]

But "HOSTILE takeover" already happened in 2004, when Sammy buyed over 50% of SEGA shares.

Nothing good ever happened when a small company was bought by a bigger one. Throughout whole human history. :) Even look at what happened to Camelot when Nintendo bought them. From the Shining Force and Golden Sun series to Mario golf and tennis games. It's a tragedy.

Atlus are still doing well, but since Sammy bought them, we've seen 5 different Persona 5 games. Do you think this is a coincidence?

When you have not built something with your own hands, it is much easier for you to destroy it. That's how Sammy destroyed all the SEGA studios over the years and kicked out 1 by 1 the big names from the old SEGA. Knowing this, do you know how easy it would be for Microsoft to shut down all the SEGA ips? The moment they no longer bring them money and they don't know what to do with them... It's Game Over. You can replace Microsoft with Nintendo, with Sony, with Square-Enix, with EA... the result will be the same.

I think we should be somehow grateful that Sammy rents out the series they don't use. I'm not sure EA would for example. Look how they won't let American McGee make a new game, even with a kickstarter.

 

[SMDzero]

But "HOSTILE takeover" already happened in 2004, when Sammy buyed over 50% of SEGA shares.

Nothing good ever happened when a small company was bought by a bigger one. Throughout whole human history. :) Even look at what happened to Camelot when Nintendo bought them. From the Shining Force and Golden Sun series to Mario golf and tennis games. It's a tragedy.

Atlus are still doing well, but since Sammy bought them, we've seen 5 different Persona 5 games. Do you think this is a coincidence?

When you have not built something with your own hands, it is much easier for you to destroy it. That's how Sammy destroyed all the SEGA studios over the years and kicked out 1 by 1 the big names from the old SEGA. Knowing this, do you know how easy it would be for Microsoft to shut down all the SEGA ips? The moment they no longer bring them money and they don't know what to do with them... It's Game Over. You can replace Microsoft with Nintendo, with Sony, with Square-Enix, with EA... the result will be the same.

Microsoft wants to up their game to better compete with Playstation and Phil Spencer wanted to buy Nintendo to achieve this end so he should focus on acquiring Sega by any means necessary.

With Microsofts money Sega would return to their glory days and make groundbreaking innovative games with huge budgets and Xbox would finally be a viable alternative to PlayStation.

 

[thedemon1238]

It looks good on paper, but it's a big risk. I wouldn't bet on it. Microsoft changes their strategy very often. Today they say one thing, in 3 years they say another. They were on the right track with 360, but changed direction after 2010 for the worse. For no apparent reason. As a former windows phone user, I know how easy it is for them to destroy everything they have done for the past years. I don't think they understand real (hardcore) gaming in general and I don't see them using SEGA ips the right way... They can wipe out the entire xbox platform from today to tomorrow. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that happens.

As they say, be careful what you wish for. "The Good" Phil may not be the one that we think he is.

 

[SMDzero]

It looks good on paper, but it's a big risk. I wouldn't bet on it. Microsoft changes their strategy very often. Today they say one thing, in 3 years they say another. They were on the right track with 360, but changed direction after 2010 for the worse. For no apparent reason. As a former windows phone user, I know how easy it is for them to destroy everything they have done for the past years. I don't think they understand real (hardcore) gaming in general and I don't see them using SEGA ips the right way... They can wipe out the entire xbox platform from today to tomorrow. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that happens.

As they say, be careful what you wish for. "The Good" Phil may not be the one that we think he is.

Phil Spencer would have funded Shenmue 3. The only reason he didn’t was because Microsoft didn’t own the IP. If Microsoft had owned Sega you can bet your bottom dollar the Shenmue story would have been completed by now.

I’m not a Xbox player and have never even owned an Xbox console but I believe Microsoft is the right buyer for Sega.

Sega could be to Microsoft what Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studios are to Sony.

The alternative to a hostile takeover is to allow Sega to continue to limp along as a joke and wash up in the video game business reduced to churning out tired Sonic and Yakuza games.

Also Sega started out an an American Company, and found its greatest success in America with the Genesis and early Dreamcast days. It would be fitting to see Sega returned to American hands and have their glory days forever restored.

 

[thedemon1238]

I am unfortunately a long time Xbox user and have been disappointed by Microsoft dozens of times. But I like your optimism. I don't mind Yu Suziki blowing 50 million of MS's money. As long as they give him creative freedom.

The bad thing is that Microsoft will not deal with such small causes as Shenmue 4. When was the last time they funded a project of a studio that is not theirs? It's easier for them to buy Game Pass exclusives when the game is ready.

If you mean they buy the license from Sammy and take the game out of Yu Suzuki's hands to give it to one of their studios.... Then I think the whole shenmue community finally will agree on how good Shenmue 3 was. Together again!

Microsoft doesn't need to buy Sammy for Shenmue 4. It will be cheaper for them to buy Ysnet.

 

[SMDzero]

I am unfortunately a long time Xbox user and have been disappointed by Microsoft dozens of times. But I like your optimism. I don't mind Yu Suziki blowing 50 million of MS's money. As long as they give him creative freedom.

The bad thing is that Microsoft will not deal with such small causes as Shenmue 4. When was the last time they funded a project of a studio that is not theirs? It's easier for them to buy Game Pass exclusives when the game is ready.

If you mean they buy the license from Sammy and take the game out of Yu Suzuki's hands to give it to one of their studios.... Then I think the whole shenmue community finally will agree on how good Shenmue 3 was. Together again!

Microsoft doesn't need to buy Sammy for Shenmue 4. It will be cheaper for them to buy Ysnet.

After Microsoft takes over Sega they would rehire Yu Suzuki to lead the AM2 division. Microsoft would allocate $100 million for 2 games to be worked on simultaneously, Shenmue 3 directors cut and Shenmue 4.

 

[Seaman]

Sega then sold off all their IPs to the highest bidder…. Nintendo for Sonic, Sony got VF, Microsoft got Panzer Dragoon and Shenmue and then in short order Sega sold its soul and died.

When did Sega sold those IPs? They went multiplatform but keeping the rights to each of the series you mention.

Also Sega started out an an American Company

That was before being sold to W&G.. before even starting to make consoles.. just pinballs, jukebox and some primitive arcades (Japan made those last ones tho). Even the SG1000 came by when Sega was a japanese company.

and found its greatest success in America with the Genesis and early Dreamcast days.

No it didn't. American market was mostly conquered by Nintendo. Sega glorious days were practically 5 years with Megadrive at Europe and América (south, specially Brazil. No US of NA).
Dreamcast was a swan song. It never had momentum world wide. I mean, the console lifespan was a year and a half with everyone in standby for PS2.

It would be fitting to see Sega returned to American hands and have their glory days forever restored.

Service Games and Standard Games were so glorious that they went sold cheap to Western & Gulf. Leaving out the japanese counterparts as those had their own identity and were profitable making components. Later those same japanese companies bought W&G and became the Sega we all knew.
Simply put: there never was such a thing like "Glorious days in american hands". Not before, not after.

After Microsoft takes over Sega they would rehire Yu Suzuki to lead the AM2 division. Microsoft would allocate $100 million for 2 games to be worked on simultaneously, Shenmue 3 directors cut and Shenmue 4.

Spoiler

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Yu Suzuki's only fault is that he's ambitious. I never said it was a bad thing that someone was there to keep Suzuki on course.

And your comment about profitability is laughable. Is it fair that Yu gets pushed to one side just because Shenmue didn't have the chance of a bigger audience outside of the Dreamcast? Remember, Yakuza did have that going for it, on the Playstation no less.

I have nothing against Nagoshi on a personal level, the guy created Daytona after all. My issue is more with how he was given free reign to create what he wanted with financial backing. Yu got that shot once with Shenmue, but it wasn't his fault that the install base wasn't there to re-coup the costs.

Suzuki created Daytona alongside Nagosh.

Nagosh was more of the guy behind Scud Race, but Daytona was still an all-out AM2 title, as opposed to one that was mainly spearheaded by one person.

 

[spud1897]

Phil Spencer would have funded Shenmue 3. The only reason he didn’t was because Microsoft didn’t own the IP. If Microsoft had owned Sega you can bet your bottom dollar the Shenmue story would have been completed by now.

I’m not a Xbox player and have never even owned an Xbox console but I believe Microsoft is the right buyer for Sega.

Sega could be to Microsoft what Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studios are to Sony.

The alternative to a hostile takeover is to allow Sega to continue to limp along as a joke and wash up in the video game business reduced to churning out tired Sonic and Yakuza games.

Also Sega started out an an American Company, and found its greatest success in America with the Genesis and early Dreamcast days. It would be fitting to see Sega returned to American hands and have their glory days forever restored.

Microsoft had the chance to when YS pitched Shenmue 3 and they turned it down. He wanted to focus on first party apparently.

 

[SMDzero]

Phil Spencer didn’t want to fund an IP that Microsoft didn’t own. If Microsoft owns Shenmue they will make the games. Could you seriously imagine Phil Spencer saying no to more Shenmue games if they owned the IP?

 

[SMDzero]

When did Sega sold those IPs? They went multiplatform but keeping the rights to each of the series you mention.


That was before being sold to W&G.. before even starting to make consoles.. just pinballs, jukebox and some primitive arcades (Japan made those last ones tho). Even the SG1000 came by when Sega was a japanese company.


No it didn't. American market was mostly conquered by Nintendo. Sega glorious days were practically 5 years with Megadrive at Europe and América (south, specially Brazil. No US of NA).
Dreamcast was a swan song. It never had momentum world wide. I mean, the console lifespan was a year and a half with everyone in standby for PS2.


Service Games and Standard Games were so glorious that they went sold cheap to Western & Gulf. Leaving out the japanese counterparts as those had their own identity and were profitable making components. Later those same japanese companies bought W&G and became the Sega we all knew.
Simply put: there never was such a thing like "Glorious days in american hands". Not before, not after.

Spoiler

View attachment 19053

Sega sold out their IPs to the highest bidders in the early 2000s just to make a quick buck.

Fans of Sega were forced with the prospect of having to buy PS2 GameCube and Xbox in order to maintain access to all Sega games not to mention they had already bought Dreamcast. Accounting for inflation players would have needed to shell out more than $2000 for all those systems.

Not only did Sega begin as an American company, Segas success was always in America not Japan. At one point Sega had 55% of the video game market in the United States!

Sega of Japan resented Sega of America for the success of the Genesis in the US so Yuji Naka stopped Sega Technical Institute from using “his” engine which resulted in the cancellation of Sonic Xtreme dooming the Saturn and then Sega of Japan refused to go with Sega of America’s Black Belt Voodoo 3DFX chip which would have guaranteed Segas technical dominance over Nintendo and Sony.

Tom Kalinske or Bernie Stolar should have executed a hostile takeover of Sega of Japan right then and there to return control of Sega to the United States before it was too late.

Yu Suzuki has even indicated a willingness to move his family to The US if he could be the head of a major studio again and continue Shenmue.

Did you know that Xbox was intended to essentially BE the Dreamcast? Microsoft approached Sega with a offer to purchase them and have Xbox be compatable with ALL Dreamcast games. Microsoft was being magnanimous but Sega stubbornly refused which resulted in their hostile takeover by Sammy. BTW the first thing Sammy did was close down Suzuki’s new studio Digital Rex which was said to have already begun preliminary work on Shenmue 3.

Microsoft needs to acquire Sega now and the have the funds to do it. If Sega turns them down again Microsoft will simply execute a hostile takeover.

 

[ahmed_alency7]

I just don’t know why the fuck sega doesn’t want to sell to microsoft

 

[SMDzero]

I just don’t know why the fuck sega doesn’t want to sell to microsoft

Phil Spencer is hot for the deal. I believe Sega is intentionally holding things up. Hopefully Microsoft decides to do a hostile takeover to get this done.

Microsoft considered acquiring Bungie and Sega to bolster Xbox Game Pass, internal emails show

Microsoft’s internal documents reveal gaming targets.

www.theverge.com

 

[spud1897]

Phil Spencer didn’t want to fund an IP that Microsoft didn’t own. If Microsoft owns Shenmue they will make the games. Could you seriously imagine Phil Spencer saying no to more Shenmue games if they owned the IP?

Yes I can imagine him saying no. He's done it once already and it would have to make financial sense for them to pull the trigger. What actual reason would he have to fund Shenmue?

Also MS own a tonne of IP and have done very little with it. OK they've only just taken on Activision and Zenimax but they've had Rare etc for years and done bugger all.

Also SEGA ain't selling up. Certainly not soon and while they can be sold to a foreign firm its incredibly hard to do so in Japan. Also keep in mind the scrutiny the Activision deal had. Competition laws would have to investigate very closely as all this comes across as on the surface is MS buying firms because they lack their own abilities to consistently compete with Sony and Nintnedo. Sure they've made strides but they're not there yet.

Also, all that further industry consolidation will do is encourage more of it. MS buy SEGA, Sony buy Square and its bye bye and creativity you had.

Also gaming these days is all about low risk and high reward for firms.
Shawn Layden talked about this at length: https://kotaku.com/sony-playstation...,sequels and established Hollywood franchises.

So all consolidation does is fuel that.

 

[SMDzero]

Yes I can imagine him saying no. He's done it once already and it would have to make financial sense for them to pull the trigger. What actual reason would he have to fund Shenmue?

Also MS own a tonne of IP and have done very little with it. OK they've only just taken on Activision and Zenimax but they've had Rare etc for years and done bugger all.

Also SEGA ain't selling up. Certainly not soon and while they can be sold to a foreign firm its incredibly hard to do so in Japan. Also keep in mind the scrutiny the Activision deal had. Competition laws would have to investigate very closely as all this comes across as on the surface is MS buying firms because they lack their own abilities to consistently compete with Sony and Nintnedo. Sure they've made strides but they're not there yet.

It makes perfect sense. Why would Microsoft spend tens of million of dollars developing an IP that they don’t even own?

Microsoft wants to invest in developing their own IPs if they OWNED Shenmue they would certainly develop the IP.

If they acquired Sega all their dormant IPs would get a new lease on life because Microsoft actually WANTS to develop great games.

Sammy on the other hand is not interested in video games, they are gambling company who uses the Sega name as a cover to hide the true nature of their unsavory business. Poor Sega has limped along ever since being a slave to Sammy and their gambling business only being allowed to make an occasional tired Sonic or Yakuza game to keep the facade going.
Microsoft would be their salvation.

Everyone keeps bringing up Rare but Rare failed because of Rare not Microsoft. Rare was already in decline since their glory days SNES and N64 which is why even Nintendo had no interest in purchasing them even though they had 1st buying rights. Microsoft bought Rare as a charity case and Rare let themselves down.

Also Sega has expressed interest in the Microsoft acquisition they just said “Not Now”

And I believe Microsoft has the muscle to buy Sega anyway by hook or crook no matter how much bureaucratic red tape the FTC tries to throw at them.

Sega Boasts 'Very Close' Relationship With Microsoft but Makes Clear It Is Not for Sale - IGN

Sega has said it has a very close relationship with Microsoft but made clear the company is not for sale after court documents revealed Xbox boss Phil Spencer was interested in acquiring it.

www.ign.com

 

[spud1897]

It makes perfect sense. Why would Microsoft spend tens of million of dollars developing an IP that they don’t even own?

Microsoft wants to invest in developing their own IPs if they OWNED Shenmue they would certainly develop the IP.

If they acquired Sega all their dormant IPs would get a new lease on life because Microsoft actually WANTS to develop great games.

Sammy on the other hand is not interested in video games, they are gambling company who uses the Sega name as a cover to hide the true nature of their unsavory business. Poor Sega has limped along ever since being a slave to Sammy and their gambling business only being allowed to make an occasional tired Sonic or Yakuza game to keep the facade going.
Microsoft would be their salvation.

Everyone keeps bringing up Rare but Rare failed because of Rare not Microsoft. Rare was already in decline since their glory days SNES and N64 which is why even Nintendo had no interest in purchasing them. Microsoft bought Rare as a charity case Rare let themselves down.

Also Sega has expressed interest in the Microsoft acquisition they just said “Not Now”

And I believe Microsoft has the muscle to buy Sega anyway by hook or crook.

Sega Boasts 'Very Close' Relationship With Microsoft but Makes Clear It Is Not for Sale - IGN

Sega has said it has a very close relationship with Microsoft but made clear the company is not for sale after court documents revealed Xbox boss Phil Spencer was interested in acquiring it.

www.ign.com

They have the money to but you're completely negating competition and Japanese laws. It's not as straightforward as simply holding a takeover. Buy just completing the largest takeover in gaming history they're now massively under the microscope for attempting to monopolise the industry. Any takeovers they do now will be closely watched.

Secondly while Rare may have been on the decline how did Microsoft address that? They didn't.

Thirdly why would they invest in Shenmue regardless of it being their IP or not? The numbers need to make sense regardless of if they own it or not and from where I'm looking the games industry is all about de-risk and balance sheets which doesn't lend well to Shenmue.

 

[SMDzero]

They have the money to but you're completely negating competition and Japanese laws. It's not as straightforward as simply holding a takeover.

Secondly while Rare may have been on the decline how did Microsoft address that? They didn't.

Thirdly why would they invest in Shenmue regardless of it being their IP or not? The numbers need to make sense regardless of if they own it or not and from where looking the games industry is all about de-risk and balance sheets which doesn't lend well to Shenmue.

Microsoft would engage in a hostile takeover which would by definition be against the objections of their board of directors. All Microsoft has to do is buy up all the unsold shares to get to 51%. Any outstanding shares Microsoft needs they could simply offer to purchase at 150% of their value and the shareholders would certainly sell.

Microsoft wants to invest in their own IPs. They are looking at the big picture. The question isn’t how much any individual game will sell but rather what games do they need to invest in to ensure the long term viability and relevance of their IPs.

And when Microsoft bought Rare they let them do their own thing and they failed miserably because they were already a shadow of their former self. Sega on the other hand would be set free by Microsoft and rise from the ashes like a Phoenix.

Edit: Also given Segas irrelevance over the last 2 decades I don’t think the FTC is gonna get in a twist about an acquisition.

 

[spud1897]

Sega have a market value of around 3-5bn dollars. You can hammer their output all you like (I do) but that value isn't insignificant in the market and they're around the same as Square/Capcom. Also if Microsoft did start trying to buy significantly large amounts of shares you can bet trading would be suspended while its investigated around anti-competiton laws. And then there's Japanese law to negotiate too.

Also I ask again, what financial gain is there for Microsoft, assuming they took over, to make Shenmue? Especially when they will and do have a bunch of IP that could theoretically make more money. I'm not shitting on Shenmue but it is a fact that while it can make money does it have the earning potential of over IP when compared to initial outlay?

Trust me all this consolidation is being profit driven and that worries me for the industry and games like Shenmue