I thought it was enough just to set GhostTrick as an ignored user, but his inanity is too far reaching.
An exemple I love to take is the Legend of Heroes serie. It's been going since what, 2004 ? They've released 9 games so far, all interconnected, building a huge world, a huge cast of characters while maintaining interesting locations to visit and really well developped NPCs, which you can even meet again in later games, with their own story lines. Sure, the visuals are subpar. And you cant open the drawers. But guess what ?
It does really well at what its trying to do. It's not fully voiced, and yet there's a shitload of script.
And in the end ? It's still reviewing well. It's still fairly respected among its fanbase and critically. It's not an on-going joke/meme among the press/industry.
Are you serious? So, you must be talking about the Kiseki series, because the original Legend of Heroes games, made by the unparalleled Kiya Yoshio, were made in 1989 and 1992, respectively--and those two games are great. If you think it's reasonable to compare the scopes of the Kiseki games to Shenmue, in terms of world detail, NPCs, scripting, gameplay, structure, etc, then you have very misguided ideas about what goes into making Shenmue. This is very elucidating, though. I can certainly see now how you would think that Shenmue III is something altogether different from the first two games.
By the way, if you think the fluff Falcom pumps out these days is serviceable, you should really up your standards a little, and play something like the Suikoden series.
As for the part about Niao Sun... Please, let's be serious for a second. You're selling it as a well done moment and well prepared when it's basically a poorly made "haha I was the mean character since the begining !". A plot twist that has been done over and over. It's not a problem by itself. The problem is that its too poorly written to give a shit. You say it's because "people are used to Disney/Marvel so they need things to be straightforward". I'd say: "watch more movies, play more games" because if those are your references, I understand why you think so much good of Niao Sun's reveal.
Ugh, stuff it. The only movie in the MCU I've seen was Black Panther, and it's probably the only one I ever will see, because I don't bother with most Hollywood blockbuster movies. They're fine entertainment, but mostly devoid of artistic value. I've been through university courses in Russian film, and regularly watch notoriously difficult films like the animated works of Satoshi Kon, Solaris (1972 and 2002), 2001, Mullholland Drive, etc. That doesn't make me an expert, but you seem painfully ignorant about artistic media, as evidenced by this plainly stupid argument that the reveal of new information about a character wasn't earthshattering enough, by some arbitrary assessment, to validate the character. In fact, you're so hung up on this worthless idea to the point that you've entirely missed the point of the character. I already covered this. Whether or not one can guess that Li Feng is Niao Sun (which is somewhat intended to happen anyway, since that's how foreshadow works), she is presented at first as a kind, gentle, helpful person. She turns out to be anything but, which has a range implications for who she pretends to be in her daily life, and that reflects deeply in her general character. Sorry, but that's one of the most interesting things to be presented about any antagonist in the series to this point. Lan Di looks like a bit of a simpleton by comparison.
Easy explanation:
- What is a betrayalton ? When you deceive someone in which they gave you trust or expectations toward you.
I really hate to pick on people for their English (it's tough learning any language), but "betrayalton" isn't a word. I suppose it technically has some use, since there's an Urban Dictionary entry for it related to video game exclusivity, but the word is just "betrayal." You're just so sure you're right, you don't even bother to check, lol.
Thing is, none of that happens in Shenmue III because Li Feng is transparent af. She has no screen time. Was she introduced as a character more fledged, with a fake story, fooling Ryo and the player and bringing sympathy for her character, then it would've been meaningful. But no connection is established between her and Ryo/the player. Nothing. She appears in barely 2 cutscenes and sometimes in the city, where's she's irrelevant. And the only meaningful time she appears, she's suspicious af. And when the whole thing is revealed, it's explained with a really straightforward flashback telling you "oh, I remember her !!" without any buildup. This is poor writing. And this is rushed.
Now, you can sugarcoat it as much as you wish, pretend that "It's amazing !" "It's just an unconventional way of story telling !" "People are used to Marvel" when in fact, it's neither subtle or unconventional. It's just rushed.
Okay, great. You believe it's rushed, and that she has no screen time. Glad you got to share your opinion about this character who is more nuanced than most other antagonists in the series (and will be relevant to the story going forward). I mean I guess you must have been this pissed off about Lan Di in Shenmue II, also. What a shitty character he is. I mean he pretty much shows up for just one scene in the first game. Can't even be bothered to get off the helicopter for his one appearance in the second game, and doesn't even say a word. Wow, I guess we should just shove him into the waste basket. What a rush-job they did on Shenmue II. I mean, there's no way we could possibly learn anything about his character if he has so little screen time. Terrible writing, indeed.
Could you unpack this? I don't see how S3 is doing anything different than S1 and 2 and those were very traditional bildungsroman/hero's journey stories.
Easily: Watch the intro again. Ryo and Shenhua turn, in what appears to be a sort of awkward way, to face toward opposite corners of the screen. Their positions
mirror the reliefs of the mirrors behind them. The details in this scene further establish Shenhua as being represented by the phoenix, and Ryo being represented by the dragon. Lan Di and Ryo being represented by the mythical Chinese dragon brings with it many other implications. Similarly for Niao Sun, Shenhua and the phoenix. These sorts of details are well represented in Shenmue III.
This is actually really important, because people seem to have this idea of story telling now that is warped by big budget movies. What details go into a story in a novel? Is it just things that characters do and say to each other? No, it includes things like the weather, scenery, colors, architectures, objects, etc. These are all parts of a story. In films,
real films, directors often spend a lot of time on these details. It gives us things like the highway scene in Solaris:
This clues us in to things like thoughts, feelings, symbols, and metaphors. Sure, you can tell a story without these things, and that's what a lot of video games, movies and TV shows do. The Shenmue games, though (all of them) apply more of a film perspective to the story telling. It's even woven into the fabric of the regular gameplay. It's not as artful as Satoshi Kon's meticulous editing, but is more so than most contemporary video games.
With all due respect, this seems like an excuse. Stories are not written with subtext first.
(EDIT) Unless you're Darren Aronofsky.
Stories are often written with themes and messages first. Literary devices help to move toward these ideas. What are you talking about?
This is a false equivalence. We learn a ton about Yuan and Dou Niu because they're actually in the game and part of the story; they never even give one monologue. Speculating about character development is not the same as actually having well developed characters.
Please regale me with these "ton(s)" of things you know about Yuan and Dou Niu from their screen time in Shenmue II. They're on screen more because they're chasing Ryo around most of the time. We know that Yuan likes birds. Okay, you got me there. They are fine characters, but please, now you're just being silly.
Sure, but that doesn't mean it's good or anything different from what we got at the end of S2. Ryo and Shenhua meet at the end of S2 and get to know each other and they're basically just doing the exact same thing in S3;
Wait, so you're saying that Ryo learned everything there was to know about Shenhua in the two days he spent walking through the mountains with her? Yeah, I disagree. I learned a lot more about who she is as a person from Shenmue III, but the fourth disc of Shenmue II, and the beginning of Shenmue III basically straddle the same chapter, anyway.
we don't even find out why the village recites a poem about the two of them meeting or why it's such a big deal.
This reeks of intellectual laziness. Why don't you think about it for a bit. Try to find the answer for yourself based on the details that
are given. Because what you're implying is that you wanted this information to just be given to you. Also, I think you could be missing the point. The origin of the tradition is probably much less important than the meaning of the prophecy itself, and how it would compell Shenhua on her journey.
And if you haven't read that description from Suzuki, you would have no idea that's what she's supposed to be like from S3.
Unless you actually stopped to think about any of the things you were seeing on screen, yeah, I guess that's true.
Sure, you may be fine with that, but surely you can understand why "wait till the next game to find out about a character who was supposed to be the main antagonist of this game" would rub people the wrong way.
Pretty sure they did it for Lan Di, twice, without even giving it a second thought.
Aren't ya all getting off topic here?
Yes, very much so. I'm not going to waste time responding to anything else in this thread that isn't about Shenmue IV.
