Should have invested in YS Net instead of Ninja Theory

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SMDzero

Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Just finished Hellblade, the game looks more realistic than S3 has much better writing too. Also unlike S3 Hellblade got critical and commercial acclaim and is getting a sequel with a higher budget.

Ninja Theory also not only developed but also published Hellblade something Yu Suzuki seemingly is incapable of doing with Shenmue.

Is Yu Suzuki and YsNet simply outclassed by superior game developers planners and writers at Ninja Theory?
 
SMDzero said:
Just finished Hellblade, the game looks more realistic than S3 has much better writing too. Also unlike S3 Hellblade got critical and commercial acclaim and is getting a sequel with a higher budget.

Ninja Theory also not only developed but also published Hellblade something Yu Suzuki seemingly is incapable of doing with Shenmue.

Is Yu Suzuki and YsNet simply outclassed by superior game developers planners and writers at Ninja Theory?
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Completely different games.

One is a linear adventure with little to no NPC's and one main character to write for.

The other is a fully open world with a large scale fighting system, full VO for everyone etc.

You can argue over the project scope of Shenmue 3 and whether it should have been smaller in terms of planning but unlike Hellblade, Shenmue 3 never had a static budget or had to do half it's cutscenes in an office.

This debate has been done to death.
 
I would also say that these games are too different to compare. Shenmue 3 was more ambitious than Hellblade despite not having a fixed budget and the means to do some sophisticated cut scenes.

Considering the limitations Ys net had Shenmue 3 is still an impressive game. Hellblade is also a different game for some other reasons.
 
spud1897 said:
Completely different games.

One is a linear adventure with little to no NPC's and one main character to write for.

The other is a fully open world with a large scale fighting system, full VO for everyone etc.

You can argue over the project scope of Shenmue 3 and whether it should have been smaller in terms of planning but unlike Hellblade, Shenmue 3 never had a static budget or had to do half it's cutscenes in an office.

This debate has been done to death.
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You’re right the games are very different and S3 is far more ambitious than Hellblade.

Plus S3 has better looking colorful environments than Hellblade and I’m glad that S3 retained stylized graphics instead of going for photo realism.

So I take it back that Hellblade looks “better” S3 probably looks better considering it’s colorful and detailed environments.

And yes, while the writing is dark and poetic in Hellblade that wouldn’t work for Shenmue which needs to retain it special charming hilarity.

Still Hellblade moved me emotionally more that S3 did so Ninja Theory wins on that. I literally clapped when the credits rolled on Hellblade and not so much with S3. Plus Ninja Theory self published so why couldn’t YsNet?
 
Even though Shenmue III and Hellblade is an apples to oranges comparison, I don't think it's outlandish to suggest Ninja Theory has a more advanced development team than Ys Net.

And there's a pretty straightforward explanation for it: experience. Just look at the portfolio of both studios. Not only has Ninja Theory been around for much longer, they've also consistently delivered high profile releases since ~2003 while Ys Net has mostly dabbled in smaller scale mobile projects before Shenmue III became a thing. Given the circumstances, I'd have been shocked if Shenmue III was somehow more impressive than Hellblade on a technical level.

But of course, the issue is with topics like this one being started to begin with. They're purely created to crap on something/someone and to bait people with bad faith arguments, out-of-context comparisons and so on.
 
SMDzero said:
You’re right the games are very different and S3 is far more ambitious than Hellblade.

Plus S3 has better looking colorful environments than Hellblade and I’m glad that S3 retained stylized graphics instead of going for photo realism.

So I take it back that Hellblade looks “better” S3 probably looks better considering it’s colorful and detailed environments.

And yes, while the writing is dark and poetic in Hellblade that wouldn’t work for Shenmue which needs to retain it special charming hilarity.

Still Hellblade moved me emotionally more that S3 did so Ninja Theory wins on that. I literally clapped when the credits rolled on Hellblade and not so much with S3. Plus Ninja Theory self published so why couldn’t YsNet?
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Budget.
 
Love both games; each one in its own unique way.
 
Seaman said:
Why choosing? We can like both :)

This isn't very accurate, Ninja Theory belongs to Microsoft.
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I don't think they did at the time when Hellblade released it was on PS4 as well.
 
I only know that I've complete Shenmue 3 four times, and I haven't been able to finish Hellblade even once. 😁

Shanmue 3 is a larger game with more gameplay variations. It's just harder to make.... And it's better game I think.
 
SMDzero said:
Hellblade had a $10M budget and they self-published. Shenmue 3 had a $10M budget also if you don’t count the Kickstarter money.

So why couldn’t YsNet self publish Shenmue like Ninja Theory does??
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Shenmue 3 had a $20m budget all in including the Kickstarter and private funding.

Once you lose marketing and the Kickstarter money I reckon $14-16m for a studio that is very very small and has only one large scale project under it is going to find it very hard to secure that sort of money. Even $10m themselves would be hard.
 
thedemon1238 said:
I only know that I've complete Shenmue 3 four times, and I haven't been able to finish Hellblade even once. 😁

Shanmue 3 is a larger game with more gameplay variations. It's just harder to make.... And it's better game I think.
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I avoided playing Hellblade for years since it was so weird. Maybe it is a bit too much with headphones but you should play it it’s a beautiful story.
 
spud1897 said:
Shenmue 3 had a $20m budget all in including the Kickstarter and private funding.

Once you lose marketing and the Kickstarter money I reckon $14-16m for a studio that is very very small and has only one large scale project under it is going to find it very hard to secure that sort of money. Even $10m themselves would be hard.
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Well you would think YS should have enough cred for $10M loan.

Plus Hellblade saved TONS of money by going digital only.

I hate to say it but the fans pushing for a physical release of S3 cost us Baisha.

We traded Baisha for a plastic coaster….😥
 
SMDzero said:
Well you would think YS should have enough cred for $10M loan.

Plus Hellblade saved TONS of money by going digital only.

I hate to say it but the fans pushing for a physical release of S3 cost us Baisha.

We traded Baisha for a plastic coaster….😥
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Got any actual figures to back that up? Hellblade did eventually get a physical version.

That said I've mentioned several times in the videos they should go digital only.
 
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spud1897 said:
Got any actual figures to back that up? Hellblade did eventually get a physical version.

That said I've mentioned several times in the videos they should go digital only.
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The cost of producing and shipping all the physical discs and cases is HUGE! Material costs labor costs shipping costs…

Hellblade only got a physical release once the game sold well and made money.

If all the money wasted making discs and cases went into the actual development of Shenmue 3 then we would have gotten Baisha with the ending fully fleshed out instead of a truncated highlight reel that we got.

BTW- didnt Cedric Biscay confirm that the ending of S3 was just cobbled together last minute? Did he say what the full form ending would have been??

Imagine the Lord of the Ring Trilogy but they ran out of money and couldn’t make Return of the King so they just pasted a 5 min condensed ending movie after the Two Towers and called it a day… That’s what happened to Shenmue 3.

And all we have to show for losing Baisha is a worthless disc.

It’s our own damn fault because we the fans are old and can’t let go of our physical media. Adam Koralik even claimed that he wouldnt buy Shenmue 3 if it was digital only. That outdated mindset from an aging fan base desperate to cling onto physical media killed the ending to Shenmue 3.
 
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You're being dramatic, man. Even if there is some truth in what you say, that is hardly the most important thing.

Physical copies are not the problem. Without them, the game would have sold less in 2019. Maybe if Shenmue IV comes out in 2025 it won't be such a problem that it's only a digital game. In 2019, however, it would be a big problem.

The only thing the game needs is support. Long-term support with a vision beyond one game. Deep Silver was not the publisher that could provide this support. They didn't have a clear vision of what to do with the game. Separately, the game received very little help from Sony and Sammy-SEGA. It needs a more serious marketing push from Sony as an exclussive and more of the SEGA mascots/arcade games. As well as a little more money to develop Baisha and the rest of the cut content. That is all.

The childish reaction of many of the fans to criticize the game without knowing the details and the conditions in which it was created added fuel to the fire. There are still many fans who think that Ys net conditions are the same as Ninja Theory, RGG studio and Remedy.
 
I played Hellblade years ago. It takes four or five hours to complete and features a pretty repetitive gameplay loop. I remember it looking and sounding pretty cool but having pretty weak gameplay, basically rock paper scissors combat.
 
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