So Last of Us 2 is getting dragged all over SNS by Users now that it's out

高野和泉

高野和泉

"SAKURA FESTIVAL!"
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Jul 27, 2018
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What do you guys think about this whole mess? Think the critics or the Users is more legit and honest on this one? Sony closing out the Ps4 era on two controversial AAA game, never thought it'd go down like this tbh.

For those with a copy, how are you guys feeling about it playing it now?:unsure:
 
My brother and I took the day off to catch up and play this on and off while hanging out/catching up as COVID restrictions lighten. We went for the easy mode in order to catch the plot. Some spoiler free comments:

-The graphics are fine and the controls are a good improvement, I'll give it that. It does shine as a sort of swan song for the PS4.

-That said, two key complaints:
a. This game abuses a non-linear plot. While there's a context for it here, I feel this game pushes it. I think some people smoked too much pot and thought Christopher Nolan was a genius for chopping up a narrative, thinking the move clever by default.
It feels pretentious here. Even that aspect aside, to Dan's aforementioned point, the plot also feels a bit contrived, regardless of presentation.

b. So too-- and I truly mean this less in a prude way, but more in that sense of pretension-- the "quasi-casual" quips and exaggerated cursing fall a bit flat. I know there's the effort to seem cinematic and/or organic in speech, but the silly puns and "ugh, dad jokes" stuff feels abused, esp. off of the heels of playing the Uncharted series.
As to the cursing, my brother (who hardly utters a sentence without swearing) himself rolled his eyes at a scene in which Ellie falls down and encounters a creature to kill. The five pieces of dialogue in a row (give or take): Jesus, holy shit, fuck this, fuck, [creature] sucks. I know she's young and supposed to be edgy, but I rolled my eyes, too.
Though the game is M rated, the dialogue feels written for a T mind. Again, that not snobbery or prudishness, but I'd think nouns work, too...
 
I was a fan of the first one, even though I never really understood all the praise it got. The story and presentation were great, but the gameplay didn’t seem like anything all that special.

I’m about three hours into Part II now, and just when I was getting bored with the setup and seeing how the gameplay is relatively unchanged...BAM. This is purely from a story perspective. One moment hit me hard and now I don’t know if I want to go on.
 
I think there's plenty of reveiw bombing going on which unfortunately detracts from those who have constructive things to say.

Some media outlets are very quick to give AAA games high scores so its swings and roundabouts.

I'm an hour and a half in so it's unfair for me to judge so far.
 
Nigel said:
-That said, two key complaints:
a. This game abuses a non-linear plot. While there's a context for it here, I feel this game pushes it. I think some people smoked too much pot and thought Christopher Nolan was a genius for chopping up a narrative, thinking the move clever by default.
It feels pretentious here. Even that aspect aside, to Dan's aforementioned point, the plot also feels a bit contrived, regardless of presentation.
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Oh I very much agree...very much agree!

My feeling is it just adds up to a big fat nothing. Come the end of the game, I feel the game is just a scatter brain of ideas and themes with little holding it all together. It doesn't have the cohesion or the focus that the first game had and as such it just all adds up to a big fat nothing.

At best, it wants to be a typical "vengeance is pointless" type story, but the ending just shits the bed so completely and loses all the focus of what this story is even about. Is it about learning to forgive? Has notions of that but nothing about it adds up with any real thought.

And at worst, it completely shits on the interesting thought provoking ending of the original game by painting Joel to be the unquestionable bad guy of the piece. Which is quite the opposite of the original games ending where that was up in the air left for the player to ponder over. But at the same time, it doesn't quite have the balls to fully demonise him either with that ending leaving me to wonder, what was the point of everything I just played? What was the point of this game?

Somewhere buried in this game is a much better game waiting to be explored...and that game involves Joel and Ellie...the scenes with Joel and Ellie are the best thing about the game...everything else surrounding it is pointless garbage.

Also, to all these critics pretending they actually felt bad when killing people in this game...how can you feel bad when these people are all seemingly out to kill you while feeling no remorse about it? Some of the reviews around this game are completely laughable.
 
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danielmann861 said:
Oh I very much agree...very much agree!

My feeling is it just adds up to a big fat nothing. Come the end of the game, I feel the game is just a scatter brain of ideas and themes with little holding it all together. It doesn't have the cohesion or the focus that the first game had and as such it just all adds up to a big fat nothing.

At best, it wants to be a typical "vengeance is pointless" type story, but the ending just shits the bed so completely and loses all the focus of what this story is even about. Is it about learning to forgive? Has notions of that but nothing about it adds up with any real thought.

And at worst, it completely shits on the interesting thought provoking ending of the original game by painting Joel to be the unquestionable bad guy of the piece. Which is quite the opposite of the original games ending where that was up in the air left for the player to ponder over. But at the same time, it doesn't quite have the balls to fully demonise him either with that ending leaving me to wonder, what was the point of everything I just played? What was the point of this game?

Somewhere buried in this game is a much better game waiting to be explored...and that game involves Joel and Ellie...the scenes with Joel and Ellie are the best thing about the game...everything else surrounding it is pointless garbage.

Also, to all these critics pretending they actually felt bad when killing people in this game...how can you feel bad when these people are all seemingly out to kill you while feeling no remorse about it? Some of the reviews around this game are completely laughable.
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I'm seeing some users reviews pointing out that a "Cultural Agenda" is also being pushed here therefore; the narrative integrity is lacking since it's an afterthought. Think U'd agree?

I'm also starting to think about waiting till it's bin or deep sale b4 picking it up myself personally. All the bad PR rite now must be disastrous for sony and Naughty dog. Especially, the double standard they've set with that one "Scene" that is now a point of contention as well.
 
高野和泉 said:
I'm seeing some users reviews pointing out that a "Cultural Agenda" is also being pushed here therefore; the narrative integrity is lacking since it's an afterthought. Think U'd agree?

I'm also starting to think about waiting till it's bin or deep sale b4 picking it up myself personally. All the bad PR rite now must be disastrous for sony and Naughty dog. Especially, the double standard they've set with that one "Scene" that is now a point of contention as well.
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In all honesty? I think of it this way. Neil Druckman got a wind of this brand new way of thinking and like any kid who is excited about something new in their life, he wanted to show it off for all its worth. But along the way, he lost complete and utter perceptive of what it was that made people like the first game. Take from that what you will.

And now he is finding out what happens when you subvert expectations. You ignite the wrath of your fanbase. Most people I've talked to agree that the best stuff about the game are the scenes with Joel and Ellie while everything else is flat. That's just the small group of friends I have who have played it (keep in mind)...obviously not everyone agrees.

For the record, I'm all for subverting expectations so long as you have a clear cohesive story in mind that you want to tell. But much like Rian Johnson and The Last Jedi, it's just a scatter brain of ideas and themes that don't add up to much of anything. It feels like it has too many ideas and not enough focus to pull them all together into one cohesive narrative.At worst, it feels like it's trying to please everyone in the room leaving it even more muddled in what exactly it's trying to say. That's the problem I had with TLJ and it's the same exact problem I have with TLOU2.

It feels like a director throwing shit at the wall seeing what sticks and what doesn't.

The best stories are the simplest ones. Take Shadow of the Colossus. It's a very simple story of a boy trying to resurrect the one he loves but at a cost. Simple, effective and powerful. There is a reason that type of story stays with you and is told throughout generations.

TLOU2 is the case of a director who wants to prove how much smarter he is than the audience by challenging the audience in a new way...and the result is a product that winds up saying nothing in the process. And what little it does say is completely contradicted by other facets of the plot.
 
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danielmann861 said:
At best, it wants to be a typical "vengeance is pointless" type story, but the ending just shits the bed so completely and loses all the focus of what this story is even about. Is it about learning to forgive? Has notions of that but nothing about it adds up with any real thought.

...
TLOU2 is the case of a director who wants to prove how much smarter he is than the audience by challenging the audience in a new way...and the result is a product that winds up saying nothing in the process. And what little it does say is completely contradicted by other facets of the plot.
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I think that is the vibe I get above all -- "I'm smart!-- though I also agree with your more charitable point that ND was trying new things and didn't want to make another cookie cutter game.

The reason I found the first game so endearing was those tender moments with Joel/Ellie, and I think they got that right in 2 without simply repeating it. That said, I think my criticism or critical attitude may first apply more to a broader thought I've had about media at large: I'm bored of this equivocation of adult/mature = realistic, and realistic = grittier/"dark." If you don't like something which is bleak and violent, you're either a child or an artiste!
I may just be burnt out on that approach, and this is an unnecessary victim for my current tastes. I was thinking about Shenmue (surprise) while playing this: it has dark moments, but it feels more like a planned arc (perhaps because it is, hah). TLOU2 feels more like a effort simply to be more bleak for bleak's sake, even if that means destroying character relations or possibilities of hope. We may have been spoiled by Shenmue, for better or worse, by having a simpler (to your point), ergo more compelling revenge story.

Secondly, I think there's a pacing issue with trying to force us to like this new character too much (to keep it spoiler free). Two people saw an animal related place! Two lost someone who matters! Two were pinned down and screaming "I'll kill you!" Overlaps-- a video game first. It feels a bit ham-handed.
To your point of challenging the audience, there's a difference between "let's develop a game where perspective blurs who is/isn't the antagonist" and "look what I did, I shook up the dressing jar." This feels much more like the latter.
 
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So far 7/8 hours in I'm liking it. The gun mechanics feel a little stiff so going have to change strategy and go for more stealth.

Not sure if it's a 10/10 game but I'll reserve that until I finish it
 
On a side note, I never really liked the over-the-shoulder perspective when used in third-person action games. The first time I really noticed it was in the first The Last of Us. I just thought it was a strange choice, in terms of player control I mean. It works well enough, but it sort of breaks the immersion for me when you move your character in any direction beyond forward and they’ll jog backwards or strafe left or right. I understand for shooting this control style is fine for it, but melee is different. It didn’t make sense to me to use it in the Arkham games or latest God of War.

Not a deal-breaker by any means. Just an observation.
 
I’m currently watching pewdiepie play through it and it’s pretty easy to agree with some of his grievances. I think he’s a bit too optimistic even.

Watched Two Best Friends go through the first one, so just going to point out I didn’t play either due to them being too scary. :p

It’s so crazy because they’re so similar but the quality of the writing is just night and day...without spoiling anything big, well, it felt like the first one respected its audience enough to let them think for themselves about the morals and ethics of the characters...sequel is almost like it was written by Kojima or David Cage with how it beats you over the head with very black and white messages that just seem childish and undercut the ending of the first one.

But never mind all that; the censorship of channels on YouTube and elsewhere were enough to sour me on ever supporting ND.
 
I played it for about 7 hours now. I'm playing on survivor mode because i have nothing against low health / fast deaths
and or tough enemies but its still this kind of stupid system from part 1, where enemies are not dropping their ammo.
You fail against someone with a weapon, who is able to take shots at you 4, 5, 6 times
but if you reload the checkpoint and kill that NPC before he sees you, you cant loot the ammunition.
I dont like that, thats fake difficulty. I dont mind dying with one single hit or if enemies can spot you from far away
but things like reducing loot to fake a hard diffculty ... is fake.

And the second thing is ... i dont know how to explain it. The story kind of feels like
its a unofficial sequel? Like for example with movies, theres a new blockbuster
and it has something for everyone. Maybe it doesnt have a happy end but its still something everyone can enjoy.
And then later they release a sequel made by different director and the vibe, tone, mood completely changes.
Thats how part 2 feels to me so far. Like some unofficial dark universe spinoff.
I dont know if i like it or not, i dont know if thats the path or story i wanted to explore.
It depends on the overall experience and the goal.
But right now, after playing for 7 hours, i dont really see how this game could end in a fulfilling(?) way.
Because even if Ellie is successful in her mission ... then what? Whats the message?
I'm curious what the conclusion is.

And third ... i'm not a big fan of these modern political themes.
I dont want to talk too much about it but it kind of feels like someone is trying to convince me
that my moral code or my philosophy is wrong ... in a videogame. And its weird because on one hand
the game with its characters is trying to convince you that its so modern and fresh and new
but on the other hand its still just a super normal heavy scripted pipe mission third person videogame.
And then i'm thinking about stuff like "did they really write that Joel-with-that-other-character-scene
because they always wanted to tell exactly that storyline
or did they only write that whole scene because they wanted to show that other very specific character."
Its another difficult topic.
 
Regarding the ending....I'm gonna get spoiler heavy here.

What bothers me most is the ending. I think, in some ways, the ending with Ellie, Dina and the baby on the farm could have worked. Just splice in the flashback of Ellie saying to Joel "I want to try to forgive you" and it could have worked. And the theme of the game could have been a simple "it's never too late to learn to forgive and let live. It's never too late to let go of hate."

Have Ellie learn something from her and Dina's near death experience. That it maybe better to forgive than hold onto hate. Even the flashback ending with Joel kind of alludes to that. Have Ellie learn to value the gift that Joel gave her instead of focusing on her survivors guilt.

What bugs me is that the game doesn't know when to end and instead takes us on one last journey of Ellie looking for Abbey to get revenge, decide otherwise at the last moment and then leaves her with nothing at the end...ultimately robbing the game of any point to be made...but also then tries to give us the flashback ending with Joel which would have made more sense with the faux ending they presented before.

That's ultimately what I mean by it's a game that has zero clue what it wants to say. It feels scatterbrain. And it feels like it's constantly pleased with subverting the audiences expectations when the REAL ending is there staring them in the face all along.
 
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There's no excuses, the story looks like garbage despite the political stuff,.

And the political stuff it's garbage too, but that's just a bonus. Like a free DLC.
 
Ryo = Ellie
Iwao = Joel
Lan Di = Abby
Zhao = Abby’s father

Abby let Ellie go twice
Lan Di let Ryo go twice

Ellie finally forgave Abby
Ryo finally forgave Dan Di(Maybe？)
 
I see Lan Di maybe having some justification but I don’t see anything being let go. At least if it turned out that way I’d feel like it was forced. But with the way even 3 was written I have more respect for it than this so far.
 
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