The "Dirty" Laundry of the DOA Franchise

高野和泉

高野和泉

"SAKURA FESTIVAL!"
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Jul 27, 2018
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Something interesting I've come across...

Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

Itagaki had some choice words to say about TN's handling of DOA on facebook. Here's the relevant passage: Prior to co-founding Valhalla Studios, Itagaki used to work at Team Ninja, where he developed Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive. Despite the fact he resigned from Team Ninja years ago...
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Wall of Text - Highlight:

"Divided" is the keyword for this comment, so keep it in your head. It's time for you guys to know the facts, you loyal DOA fans have been divided by current Team Ninja. No one can deny the truth.

I created the DOA universe with the goal that many types of players could all enjoy that universe together. More than anything else, being able to enjoy the game just by touching it was a fundamental design method.

"A game that everyone could enjoy"

What's the meaning of everyone? At least for the DOA universe, I and my fellows were imagining a few kinds of players. Let's try listing a few:

- serious fighting game fans
- casual fighting game fans (it's important that even if you lose you can still have fun)
- action game fans
- people who love Japanese animation
- people who love "characters"
- people who like to romp around in beautiful environments
- people who enjoy taking a little risk,like almost getting hit by a car outside a casino (being able to avoid that risk through skill is important also)

And lemme add a couple more to that list:

- people who love sexy women
- people who hate games that take eroticism way over-the-top

That's about it, I guess. I can't forget about any one of those types of people. Reason being is that all of these kinds of gamers from many different positions have supported the DOA universe we created for a long long time. Thank you guys, honestly.

Now, back to the "divided."
It's obvious that you guys, the loyal DOA fans, have been divided. Lemme explain in a way anyone can understand. I made the fighting game "DOA", and the action game "Ninja Gaiden." As the third pillar, I also created "DOA:Xtreme." Why did I create DOAX? The major purpose of DOAX was to act as a firewall for the main DOA fighter series, so that it wouldn't become excessively erotic.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love sexy women, that's also one purpose. But in a fighting game, there's no need for really excessive sexual imagery. Naturally, there're definitely people in the DOA fanbase who are looking for that. But at the same time, there're also those who don't wanna see that. So I decided to make a spin-off title to solve that dilemma with Zack Island, a paradise on an island in the south. As the creator of the DOA universe, I wanted to make and keep all DOA fans as happy as possible, so I've set up that barrier.

In other words, DOA and DOAX were two games with completely different purposes, and you absolutely CANNOT lump them together. But what did DOA5 blah blah blah do? I'm sure you guys already know. But lemme proclaim. Current Team NINJA was/is injecting too much sexualism into a game where it's not needed for several reasons. It's like attempting to prolong its almost dead body with a life-sustaining serum (or poison, in this case). As a result, those fans who don't like super-sexualized games have backed away from the fighting game DOA. What the hell kind of game designer would do something as insane as that? But they did.
All DOA fans shouldn't avert their eyes from this issue.

Next, I'll talk about game systems.
It's really difficult to make a game that appeals to serious, hardcore users, while at the same time being a game that's just fun to play. To accomplish that, the game system needs to be able to meet the desires of both types of players. That's our goal, the raison d'etre of DOA. There're many fighting games. Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Street Fighter - they are all amazing, fantastic games. But there is zero meaning in changing DOA to mimic them. But what did DOA5 blah blah blah do? You all know the answer already. By this crazy change, a large portion of the
casual fans, now pissed off and upset with a game system too focused only on winning and losing, have backed away from the fighting game DOA.
Here also was a ludicrous decision that split the DOA community. You can't ignore that either.

Now, I can sit here and pick apart the game forever, but lemme get to the point.
"Because of a series of ridiculous decisions from the current Team NINJA, the loyal DOA fanbase has been gradually cut up and divided into narrow uncomfortable positions."

This is the situation DOA fans now face. In my original post, I said that "some people misunderstand DOA's situation." Maybe some people also misunderstood that. But I think if you read this comment now, you'll know what I'm saying.

Who divided you guys?
Why were you divided?

Is there anything sadder than watching friends who've been divided turn their eyes away from what's important, and instead turn against each other? Innocent gamers just wanna enjoy DOA universe, who have had their playground plundered, who used to be one but divided due to some fatal blemish, just bashing on each other...

Hey! Is that what you want!?
Please remember that the reason the DOA universe has been going for 20 years now is due to you fans - all of you fans. I always appreciate all DOA fans. Don't mistake the real reason why you've been divided. That's what I want to ask you warriors who know the facts.

.
Never take your eyes off the target.

Something about this sentiment parallels a cut from the same mold by Sega that lead to & is plaguing the Shenmue vs Yakuza discourse. Ur thoughts?
 
I kind of hate to say it, but I think he's doing a lot of baseless rationalizing on why the series floundered after he left. He says DOA5 got too sexy, but imo Ultimate and 4 were sexier. He says the gameplay has changed to mimic the competition, but afaik it has more or less remained the same (feel free to correct me if this is wrong). While I do find the series was more interesting under his direction (Ninja Gaiden, too), his explanation here as to why doesn't really match up with reality.

I think part of it is I simply prefer the older artstyle. The character models were more distinct, imo they had more personality. And I have no idea why this is, but all the stages in the newer games look kind of washed out to me. Again, I don't know why that is, but in comparison, the pre-5 stages tended to look extremely bold and vibrant.
 
DOA5 gave Tamiki Wakaki some work, and that's always a plus for me. The guy's a fucking genius but nobody understands.
 
As soon as they started introducing characters like Marie Rose I was OUT.

maxresdefault.jpg


Who wants to fight a girl that looks like this? 18 my arse

The game's fucking weird now
 
I am DOA 5 Fan since DOA 2 for the Dreamcast and have played all entries in the Series and I would not say that the series went down hill. Every entry in the series is a funny Fighting game for my liking

but I cannot say that I am a big fan of the art new character Design. Considering the character design Nothing can beat DOA 1 and 2.
 
I've never really liked the series stage designs after 4. They feel smaller/flatter compared to past games that were multistory arenas with lots of different transitions. I've not even picked up 6 yet, sure I'll get round to it eventually, but maybe wait until the roster gets fleshed out more. DOA5 ended up with a decent roster after a while.
 
I've always wanted to srsly study the entire DOA's series(since it branches from VF) intricacies more closely but it's hard when the latest entries are a bit too distracting for me with the heighten eroticism. Maybe, Itagaki is kinda rite and I side with him abit. And a lot of other stuff is locked behind insane $1k+ DLC pay walls.
 
I'm gonna just say it...I always thought DOA was the Mortal Kombat of Japanese fighting games. Only Mortal Kombat was all about the gore (and lore...MK does have some entertaining lore) while DOA was all about the Sex Appeal. I never really cared for DOA gameplay wise...it's much like MK to me. Fun to pick up and play, but nothing I ever wanted to dig deep into and take seriously.

Virtua Fighter and Tekken have my complete undivided attention in terms of being games I want to learn and get better at. But I can't say the same for DOA...DOA is fun to pick up and play casually, but nothing I would ever spend time to learn. But I do understand there are people who are really into it and good for them. Happy they enjoy it. But to me, it was the casual pick up and play game.

I was pretty much done with it after DOA 5...I liked DOA 4 quite a bit but DOA 5 was where I tapped out. And as for DOA 6? That thing just screamed dumpster fire with some of its decisions.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love sexy women, that's also one purpose. But in a fighting game, there's no need for really excessive sexual imagery. Naturally, there're definitely people in the DOA fanbase who are looking for that. But at the same time, there're also those who don't wanna see that. So I decided to make a spin-off title to solve that dilemma with Zack Island, a paradise on an island in the south. As the creator of the DOA universe, I wanted to make and keep all DOA fans as happy as possible, so I've set up that barrier.

In other words, DOA and DOAX were two games with completely different purposes, and you absolutely CANNOT lump them together. But what did DOA5 blah blah blah do? I'm sure you guys already know. But lemme proclaim. Current Team NINJA was/is injecting too much sexualism into a game where it's not needed for several reasons. It's like attempting to prolong its almost dead body with a life-sustaining serum (or poison, in this case). As a result, those fans who don't like super-sexualized games have backed away from the fighting game DOA. What the hell kind of game designer would do something as insane as that? But they did.
All DOA fans shouldn't avert their eyes from this issue.
Click to expand...

Oh come on! You guys had a boob physics meter in the very first game. You guys knew what this game was all about from the very beginning. It was always about sex and casual appeal. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that, btw (because I'm not a prude about sex)

I think it was always about the sex appeal right from the very beginning.

Much like MK was about the gore from the very beginning. And what happened with MK? With every new instalment, they had to push it to the next level in terms of gore to keep getting those "Oh my god!" reactions. I think the same applies to DOA...if the fans expect one thing, then they expect it further and further as the series goes on.

Look at MK11? It has some of the most insane gory fatalities the series has ever seen. But that's the thing...when you build your series around a core concept...you become known for it. Then it becomes expected that you have to keep pushing it further and further with every instalment or annoy the fan base that liked that thing it did.

The problem with DOA 6 is that it was, in part, trying to reach out to an audience that had ZERO interest in it. It was trying to appease its most vocal critics -- even though those critics would still never give it the time of day even with the changes made -- and create a game that was more welcoming to a new casual audience.

It was trying to expand the audience and trying to appease those most vocal about sexuality in video games and their disdain for it....while simultaneously pissing off the core fanbase that liked the game for what it was.

I really don't get why we frown upon sex as much as we do? It's just sex. We all look. We're all attracted to something...Women comment on attractive guys all the time. Men like to look at attractive women. Where's the harm in sex appeal?

They were chasing a market that didn't want to embrace them and pissed off the core fanbase in the process.
 
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I thought DOA 5 Ultimate was great. While the stages were annoying and the male protagonists widely uninteresting, the gameplay was deep and easy to proceed. The game worked as a good workaround for lack of VF5 on PC.
Moreover, the story mode was excellent. Sure it was short but the cutscenes were extremely cool. Not exactly Shenmue style but if YSnet can manage that level of kung fu creativity, I would be thoroughly glad.
 
One thing that I can't stand story wise in DOA is the focus on the Ninjas - maybe the most uninteresting characters in the game. Its basically Kasumi being an outcast, Ayane attacking her, blah blah oh look no actual story progress made, repeat for next game. Its been like this since DOA2 and does the same damn thing every game. Wish they'd actually just drop the plot and move the characters on. Ryu totally rocks though, wish he'd get another NG game like the first two :(
 
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