The Yakuza comparisons to Shenmue gotta stop.

[pilman]

I hear a lot of comparisons about Yakuza being Shenmues spiritual successor on youtube, podcasts and other places on the net.

I enjoy Yakuza, I really do and it has some great gameplay elements, one of the main reasons I got into Yakuza was thanks to the Shenmue gaming boards and as it's own series, it is a fun game with some minor similarities (like sleeping dogs) but also have some very significant differences.

1) Yes they both start off in Japan, have arcades by Yu Suzuki and combat but other than that, this is where the similarities end.

2) The world, Shenmue has characters with work schedules, nearly everyone can be talked to, have work schedules, there is a dynamic weather system, true day night cycle and certain events happen at certain times of the day.

3) Story, completely different, one is a case of a young man tracking down who murdered his father and going to a foreign country to find out more about his dads past and what happened

The other about a former Yakuza struggling with the ranks of power and not selling out his loyalty to people he cares about.


I know this gets brought up once in a while but I do think it confuses new fans and can even set really poor expectations. It would be like comparing Shenmue to GTA, they are nothing alike and while some of the folks who worked on Shenmue may now be working on Yakuza, the games are completely different and that is a good thing.

I enjoy Yakuza and Shenmue both. If I want a great laugh and understanding of the Japanese psuedocultures, Yakuza is a lot of fun with its goofy fighting but also serious mafia like storyline.

Shenmue I want that stoic serious Ryo, an impatient man on a mission finding his inner self and learning, becoming humble, discovering the new and the details, the living world.

 

[Bule]

From my perspective, the similarities are thus:

The Segaishness of the art assets
The play/don't play menu system style.
Both are set in Asia

That's it.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

But honestly... they are sort of similar, I'm not saying they're aren't differences because there clearly is but if you were to note both games as a genre they'd be in it together.

Both games feature an in-depth city with plenty of stores and mini-games to get involved in.
Both games feature Martial Arts & Gangs Culture quite heavily - differently but still worth comparison.
Both games feature an Inventory, with money, items and quest items.
Both games feature unlockable commands and ways to improve your stats - Will be more prominent in Shenmue 3
Both Main characters often help out the innocent when in peril.

I think the differences begin to show with Shenmue's investigative Elements (One of my favourite features of the game!), in how you have a set story objective and when you ask around local NPC's you learn more about what's going on and progress through the adventure compared to Yakuza's Map Placement Objectives. One feature I don't like about Yakuza is how they present their side content in stats and each side-story eventually begins to feel like another box to tick. Whereas in Shenmue you find extra content or scenes via exploration.

Honestly, I like both series a lot and can see why they're compared, yet I can clearly see the difference between the two games. Yet, I am not offended by the comparison. If anything, I think it has help both series recover from such a stagnant point with having fans from one series try out the other.

 

[DigitalDuck]

Shenmue is a detective-style game with an emphasis on story. The bulk of the game is in finding out what happened to your father, finding out about the mirror, etc. While there's an element of fighting, the story is key.

Yakuza is a beat-'em-up with an emphasis on combat. The bulk of the game is in defeating enemies to progress. It's a completely different genre.

Note that neither of these is saying the other is bad. It's just saying that they're different. Like, I can look at this list:

But honestly... they are sort of similar, I'm not saying they're aren't differences because there clearly is but if you were to note both games as a genre they'd be in it together.

Both games feature an in-depth city with plenty of stores and mini-games to get involved in.
Both games feature Martial Arts & Gangs Culture quite heavily - differently but still worth comparison.
Both games feature an Inventory, with money, items and quest items.
Both games feature unlockable commands and ways to improve your stats - Will be more prominent in Shenmue 3
Both Main characters often help out the innocent when in peril.

The only part of this that doesn't apply to GTA5 is the "martial arts" aspect. And yet, nobody suggests GTA5 is a better Yakuza. Points 1, 3, and 4 are just general aspects of basically every open-world game, and 2 and 5 are just the scenario.

It reminds me of people in the early 2000s (usually the Sony fanboys of the time) claiming that Jet Set Radio is just a Tony Hawk's Pro Skater clone, because both games involve skating (even though one is skateboarding and the other is inline skating, but that's not important). In Tony Hawk you do tricks and complete challenges to score points to unlock new levels; it's a sports game. In Jet Set Radio, you use rails to clear gaps and reach areas to spray graffiti, as well as knocking over enemies and spraying them to defeat them; it's a platformer.

A genre of a game is not defined by having minigames or money; it's defined by the primary mechanics of the game. Shenmue is a "talk to people" game, Yakuza is a "beat people up" game, GTA is a "drive and shoot people" game, Mario Kart is a "race people" game, Tony Hawk is a "do tricks" game, Jet Set Radio is a "jump everywhere" game. These are all very different genres and no one of these is going to replace any other one of these.

 

[stillsense]

Don't pay attention to any comparisons. They aren't similar at all.

 

[danielmann861]

The similarities are there....you'd be a fool not to see them. BUT, those similarities are surface level at best.

One is a Epic Martial Arts Revenge Saga that has us trekking from Japan to China in hunt of the man that killed our father.
The other is a long running Japanese crime drama.

The similarities as I see them are simply that they were both made by SEGA and they both use an open world structure as the backdrop to their individual tales. And maybe Yakuza does expand on some ideas that they maybe had for Shenmue. I still think some of the conversational stuff in Yakuza with the hostesses and such was probably stuff that would have shown up in Shenmue if the franchise had kept going back then (see the Fang Mei relationship that you can build, or your many conversations with Shenhua during the long walk...these all scream early prototypes for something similar that Yakuza ended up doing)

On the surface level, there are similarities...but if you look past that surface, you'll see the many differences.

But in terms of getting people to stop comparing the two? It sadly isn't gonna happen. In fact, it's probably gonna get worse after Shenmue III comes out. Expect to hear A LOT of Yakuza comparisons in the media from a lot of outlets who no doubt only ever jumped on the bandwagon with Yakuza 0 (let's face it, they didn't give two shits about Yakuza before 0 came out) and don't know what they're talking about when they talk about both games. They'll see those surface level similarities, but they won't see the differences between the two.

And sadly, the comparison is going to be "Yakuza does it better" even though it's very clear to everyone who has played both franchises extensively that they are only similar on a surface level.

I wish it would stop...I am of the opinion that endlessly comparing both games is stupid when both games aim for different things.

Why can't they both exist on their own feet? In my opinion, both are great franchises that should be treated as their own respective thing. We shouldn't always have to bring the two up in the same sentence. How many fucking GTA clones do we have in this world that we let live and die?

But what can you do? Media can be very lazy and they will always jump on one sentiment and ring it dry instead of ever truly formulating an individual opinion.

See the very lazy critique that was "It's the Dark Souls of <insert genre here>" that many difficult games got after Dark Souls blew up in popularity.

 

[Guppy]

I don't care anymore. Just glad both exist.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

'mues are AA (more of the Adventure, variety, as mentioned above a few times).
RGG are Beat-'em-up and with 7, JRPG.

The core mechanics and game play are different from each other, as are the narratives and graphics-style.

There are similarities indeed, but those are the same similarities between 'mue and Omikron and RGG and Fighting Force 2.

In fact, I would say that the latter 2 comparisons have more in common with each respective title, than 'mue and RGG have with each other.

 

[shadowman16]

'mues are AA (more of the Adventure, variety, as mentioned above a few times).
RGG are Beat-'em-up and with 7, JRPG.

The core mechanics and game play are different from each other, as are the narratives and graphics-style.

There are similarities indeed, but those are the same similarities between 'mue and Omikron and RGG and Fighting Force 2.

In fact, I would say that the latter 2 comparisons have more in common with each respective title, than 'mue and RGG have with each other.

I'm still mad at myself for buying Fighting Force 2, but back in the day anything kinda like a beat em up was something I had to try (hey, at least it was better than Soul Fighter!)

I always imagine Shenmue feeling more like a Point and Click game in approach - speaking to the right person to trigger the next scene etc. just with more talking and less puzzles. While Yakuza is essentially a more fleshed out River City Random style game.

Either way though, both are excellent Sega games and are well worth peoples time. I don't really see the need to pit either against each other... it kinda makes me laugh seeing the comparison crop up so much though, mainly down to Shenmue 3 coming soon and Yakuza finally getting any sort of attention outside of Japan, reminds me of those days back when Yakuza was actually referred to "GTA Japan". Can't count the number of times back when people were really taking notice of 0 that they were asking all types of "Can you drive cars, shoot people etc." questions expecting it to literally just be GTA but in Japan.

 

[DigitalDuck]

I'm still mad at myself for buying Fighting Force 2, but back in the day anything kinda like a beat em up was something I had to try (hey, at least it was better than Soul Fighter!)

I actually like Fighting Force 2. It had a lot of potential that I think was just poorly utilised.

 

[Rakim]

You want Shenmue-Yakuza comparisons to stop? Get developers to make more open world games set in a modern era Japan that don't heavily lean into anime tropes. Shenmue and Yakuza are similar because they let players sneak a peak at something that they(players) think might be an authentic Japanese experience. Until that kind of game becomes common the comparisons will continue, and rightfully so.

 

[Mojito]

I would think that comparing yakuza to shenmue is a good thing!

Yakuza has a big fan base. Shenmue is a game very few under 25 has even heard of!

Comparing the games will make yakuza fans getting interested in Shenmue!

Hell, the only reason i played Yakuza was because of the comparison! I never even heard of yakuza except from people online comparing it to Shenmue.


And frankly, does it matter if they compare it? They can compare Shenmue to FIFA for all i care as long as the name comes out

 

[danielmann861]

I would think that comparing yakuza to shenmue is a good thing!

Yakuza has a big fan base. Shenmue is a game very few under 25 has even heard of!

Comparing the games will make yakuza fans getting interested in Shenmue!

Hell, the only reason i played Yakuza was because of the comparison! I never even heard of yakuza except from people online comparing it to Shenmue.


And frankly, does it matter if they compare it? They can compare Shenmue to FIFA for all i care as long as the name comes out

That's not the problem. Comparing the two is one thing, but when the comparison is used to downplay Shenmue, then that's where the problem lies for most of us.

More often than not, it's used as a backhanded way of saying you don't need to play Shenmue when you already have Yakuza because "Yakuza does it better." Which is a downright idiotic thing to say (in my opinion)

The comparisons are there and ready to be made nor do I see anything wrong with the comparison in general, but all too often people use it as a way to denigrate Shenmue as not being worth anyones time. Or vice versa, some Shenmue fans use the comparison to downplay Yakuza as well.

Both games are their own thing and deserve to be treated as such.

 

[pilman]

That's not the problem. Comparing the two is one thing, but when the comparison is used to downplay Shenmue, then that's where the problem lies for most of us.

More often than not, it's used as a backhanded way of saying you don't need to play Shenmue when you already have Yakuza because "Yakuza does it better." Which is a downright idiotic thing to say (in my opinion)

The comparisons are there and ready to be made nor do I see anything wrong with the comparison in general, but all too often people use it as a way to denigrate Shenmue as not being worth anyones time. Or vice versa, some Shenmue fans use the comparison to downplay Yakuza as well.

Both games are their own thing and deserve to be treated as such.

Exactly, I have heard people say this very thing that "Yakuza does it better than Shenmue" when they aren't the same thing. This mentality turns away a lot of potential fans.

 

[Vasid]

They're just such different experiences. Shenmue is more like a life simulator which Yakuza isn't even trying to be. Yakuza is great, but the comparison is annoying doubly so when people just push Yakuza like it's better. I mean I guess to some people it is better, but that doesn't mean it actually is better and frankly I think Yakuza is worse at doing what Shenmue is really all about: Making connections to others and growing through those connections. Yakuza has connections to others, but it's all just part of the story which could be told just as well through a movie because it's little more than a series of cutscenes. Meanwhile Shenmue shows those connections through actions in the world from getting information to learning new moves it is your connections that drive the story on. Yakuza the story drives on because you triggered the next section of it.

Don't get me wrong, love both and have been a fan of both since their launches, but they're just doing different things and really shouldn't be compared. Doubly so when the comparison is basically crapping on Shenmue by calling Yakuza better when I'm sure many Shenmue fans can find things Shenmue objectively does better than Yakuza.

 

[Zoltor]

I would think that comparing yakuza to shenmue is a good thing!

Yakuza has a big fan base. Shenmue is a game very few under 25 has even heard of!

Comparing the games will make yakuza fans getting interested in Shenmue!

Hell, the only reason i played Yakuza was because of the comparison! I never even heard of yakuza except from people online comparing it to Shenmue.


And frankly, does it matter if they compare it? They can compare Shenmue to FIFA for all i care as long as the name comes out

If they were just drawing similarities between the two sure, but no that's what's going on. The so called comparison's are only being done to downplay, and bash Shenmue.

No Yakuza fan is going to check out the Shenmue games, when all they ever hear is, "Yakuza does it better", so no, It's not a good thing on that front either.

 

[Kupo]

That's not the problem. Comparing the two is one thing, but when the comparison is used to downplay Shenmue, then that's where the problem lies for most of us.

More often than not, it's used as a backhanded way of saying you don't need to play Shenmue when you already have Yakuza because "Yakuza does it better." Which is a downright idiotic thing to say (in my opinion)

The comparisons are there and ready to be made nor do I see anything wrong with the comparison in general, but all too often people use it as a way to denigrate Shenmue as not being worth anyones time. Or vice versa, some Shenmue fans use the comparison to downplay Yakuza as well.

Both games are their own thing and deserve to be treated as such.

It's a terrible cycle isn't it? There is one thing that is pretty harmful above all else and that's the expectation before playing going in that sets yourself up for disapointment. Then that leads to more people joining the bandwagon.

My own experience of this with Yakuza ( before Shenmue 3 existed ) was being given the impression it was like Shenmue by others and being MAJORLY disapointed by a lack of NPC interaction and life schedules for them. They just felt like cardboard cut-outs, copypasted and more BYSTANDER than living persons. "NOW" I appreciate the Yakuza games but, at -the time I set my own golden standard of expectation before playing and it initially soured my view of the series, but the difference with me is I have an open mind and saw the strengths of the series ( serious story tone, rich main cast, arcades etc ). But here's the thing, many don't, which is why you get "Yakuza is better because it's faster and more direct" ( Shenmue to slow is outdated crap).

PS- I still HATE the fact that Yakuza reused a lot of the same assets ( I know why, but still ) and being stuck in Kamurocho for way to many entries, and finally last but not least, deep breathe, ( keep it together you can do this ) those bloody spam mobs every 2 minutes?

 

[danielmann861]

PS- I still HATE the fact that Yakuza reused a lot of the same assets ( I know why, but still ) and being stuck in Kamurocho for way to many entries, and finally last but not least, deep breathe, ( keep it together you can do this ) those bloody spam mobs every 2 minutes?

To be fair, it’s not like they’ve solely stuck with Kamurocho and never went anywhere else. With the exception of Y4 and the original game, they have consistently introduced a new secondary city with each game. Y5 has you spending very little time in Kamurocho. Most of the game is spent elsewhere.

But being rooted in Kamurocho does make sense for Yakuza. Considering Kamurocho is supposed to be Kabukicho and the real life Kabukicho is practically a Yakuza laden district of Tokyo (plays host to the red light district and a lot of Yakuza owned establishments)

so sticking to Kamurocho for a series playing out around the Yakuza does kind of make sense for them to do.

But to be fair, they have taken us to other cities as well with each game (with exception of Y1 and Y4)

 

[Kupo]

To be fair, it’s not like they’ve solely stuck with Kamurocho and never went anywhere else. With the exception of Y4 and the original game, they have consistently introduced a new secondary city with each game. Y5 has you spending very little time in Kamurocho. Most of the game is spent elsewhere.

But being rooted in Kamurocho does make sense for Yakuza. Considering Kamurocho is supposed to be Kabukicho and the real life Kabukicho is practically a Yakuza laden district of Tokyo (plays host to the red light district and a lot of Yakuza owned establishments)

so sticking to Kamurocho for a series playing out around the Yakuza does kind of make sense for them to do.

But to be fair, they have taken us to other cities as well with each game (with exception of Y1 and Y4)

I know. That's why I said "too many entries", not the whole series. But you make a fair point. It's just a particular pet peeve of mine when games do it, not just Yakuza. I still think it coud've benefited
the series greatly with a fresh new landscape ( fully new to allow the developers to push their creative muscles ) to match each new story that they could get away with without breaking the budget and the continuity, in relation to characters and key locations, like ishin and Kenzan ( The best entries in my opinion but I'm biased towards fuedal Samurai periods ).

 

[shadowman16]

Yakuza is getting a brand new landscape for 7 - Yokohama (Ijencho) though it still sounds like Kamurocho will be in as well - Ijencho will be the biggest city in the series to date, so that'll be cool. 2, 3, 5 and 6 all had excellent new locations for the story as well, and the way the games are written - Kamurocho is basically the heart/main character of the story, so its only natural for it to keep showing up in each game. Plus the city only gets better with each new entry.