When Will Ryo Be Ready For Lan Di?

gladias9

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Saw a few posts that got me curious..
What are your thoughts on what needs to happen for Ryo to grow as a martial artist capable of fighting Lan Di?

Obviously, Ryo bumping into random martial artists and learning life lessons isn't working.

I personally think Yu Suzuki is going to throw in a time skip (probably a year or more) while Ryo training under some mysteriously unknown dojo who just happens to have a badass sensei.
 
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Honestly, I was hoping Ryo's experience in Bailu Village was going to have a more profound effect on him. The big tease is that the fundamentals of the in-game mechanics are there the push this. Ryo can train and spar against martial artists at the dojo, yet there seems to be no real payoff to this. Had the Dojo master been involved a bit more with the story, say got involved with the drama with the Red Snakes maybe that would have offered more opportunity for Ryo's training to have more presence in the story events. I was expecting to see Ryo grow more as a Martial Aritst, this was very apparent in Shenmue II more so than III.

However, I think the encounter with Lan Di was brilliant and probably my favourite momment of the game - if even a little short. I'm so glad they didn't down play Lan Di's presence and not being able to strike a single hit just proves how far Ryo still has to grow. I'm hoping Shenmue IV will offer this chance by making Ryo a proper desciple to a Martial Arts Master and be involved in heavy duty training. Even if there is a Time Skip or a Rocky Montage, from a narrative perspective I want to the space given to where Ryo's progress is shown and felt.
 
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I don't think the story is about defeating Lan Di. I think Shenhua will decide the Mirrors are too dangerous to be used as the keys to the treasure, the shadow of Chi You has left a veil over the trasures, "The good/bad fortune" and Shenhua must unseal their power.

The north star glistens; Shenhua gets a sign and the dragon descends upon them, Lan Di emerges. Ryo's friends create distractions for CYM and eventually Ryo must hold off Lan Di. At this point Lan Di knows why Iwao killed his father, Sumning was taken by Chi You shadows, like the one ring, he became paranoid and rageful and Iwao had to kill his friend in self defense, Iwao feels immense regret that he has to kill. However Lan Di desires the treasure, and to fufil his father's dream and even knowing the truth, he must face Ryo.

Lan Di is not at his best and he's unbalanced, his convictions have been challenged. Ryo can't defeat him but this time he is able to hold him off, just long enough to help Shenhua. Ryo recieves a beating but he finds his 'center of balance' There's a flashback with Iwao teaching Ryo how to perform Elbow assault, Ryo executes the move and knocks Lan Di down. Shenhua unseals/nullifies the Mirrors. Lan Di could have killed Ryo but he's lost the keys he was after.

Eventually Tentei intervennes, and considers Lan Di of no more use. Ryo and Lan Di confront Tentei, the real villian, and form a weary alliance until they stop his plans. They defeat him with some help from Shenhua's abilities.


Epilogue, years later Ryo finds Lan Di at a grove in self-exile, Meng Cun. Ryo had moved to Bailu Village and trained with Grandmaster Feng, who has passed away. Ryo and Lan Di spar, Ryo tries the move from Iwao's hidden scroll but he struggles, the move was developed between their fathers. Lan Di pushes Ryo to his limits until he is able to perfect the technique. Ryo executes the move and proves himself to be the perfect opponent to Lan Di.

I don't agree with the common idea that the story can't be wrapped up in 4 and I imagine something like this would be satisfying.
 
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Revan

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Ryo and Lan Di have now had their first proper battle (I don't count the opening scene in Shenmue 1). Usually, heroes will battle the main villain twice in a story: first where the hero is defeated, and second where the hero wins. So I think the next time we face Lan Di will be the moment when Ryo finally defeats him.

Ryo needs to meet one final master who will profoundly change him. I could see a training montage time skip of a couple of months being implemented.
 
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Ryo and Lan Di have now had their first proper battle (I don't count the opening scene in Shenmue 1). Usually, heroes will battle the main villain twice in a story: first where the hero is defeated, and second where the hero wins. So I think the next time we face Lan Di will be the moment when Ryo finally defeats him.

Ryo needs to meet one final master who will profoundly change him. I could see a training montage time skip of a couple of months being implemented.
I think a training montage may be too cheap and easy. Ryo and Lan Di will discover why Iwao really killed Sunming. When they fight again, they won't be at the same place. It will be a psychological battle more than a physical one. I think if Ryo beats Lan Di, at that point in the story, he doesn't even want to any more.
 
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Honestly, I would like it if Ryo would ultimately be able to beat Lan Di, in a spar,
only once he and Lan Di buried their grudge or, at least struck a truce.

I always felt that the games hint at growing past your grudges,
in order to reach higher level of martial-art mastery.
So, I don't think Ryo winning is even near the crux of the saga.

Maybe, the real opponent for Ryo is actually the Him that is fueled with resentment.
(I'm not speaking about a actual in-game Dark-Link style mental battle,
but I get the idea of a "Sheathe Your Sword" kind of victory, for Ryo.)
 
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Honestly, I would like it if Ryo would ultimately be able to beat Lan Di, in a spar,
only once he and Lan Di buried their grudge or, at least struck a truce.

I always felt that the games hint at growing past your grudges,
in order to reach higher level of martial-art mastery.
So, I don't think Ryo winning is even near the crux of the saga.

Maybe, the real opponent for Ryo is actually the Him that is fueled with resentment.
(I'm not speaking about a actual in-game Dark-Link style mental battle,
but I get the idea of a "Sheathe Your Sword" kind of victory, for Ryo.)
I agree, I think there's a classic cycle of revenge going on. I theorize Sunming Zhao may have wanted the treasure, because his family were related to the imperial emperor 'The Dragon' Shenhua's family I believe is related to the empress 'the phoenix', there was upheaval within the last dynasty which meant Zhao was not granted the riches, and he wanted retribution. Ryo needs to let go of his grudge, in the same way that I think Lan Di will have to give up on his treasure hunt, and the retribution his father wanted.
 
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He’ll be ready once he’s learned the six pillars of Bajiquan from the six masters in Cangzhou. So it is foretold in the manuscripts of the one we call Akira. Never forget that this is a Virtua Fighter RPG.

Even then, it might not be enough.
 

Revan

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Massive spoiler here from the GDC 2014 presentation...

1617809126393.png

Akira (Ryo) defeats Randi (Lan Di) in battle during the third act of the story. We will definitely be fighting Lan Di again.

Of course, we don't know what will actually transpire in that fight. Ryo may merely prove that he's now become the stronger opponent without actually killing Lan Di
 
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My prediction: He'll find Xiuying's Brother and by convincing him to go off the path of evil, he'll learn what is needed to finally defeat Lan Di.

Also. Internal Shit. Being calm instead of FIGHT ME, I WILL AVENGE MY FATHER! Actually using grabs.

I just hope that the final battle is depicted in Gameplay as being consistent with the Lan Di fight in S3. Like you can only land hits with certain moves. Instead of just "The Lan Di fight, but magically, Lan Di can be hurt."

And doesn't Ryo already know Jiu-Jitsu?
 
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Ryo goes to the states and learns Boxing from a retired Muhammad Ail. S5 is subtitled "Lan Di's Punch-Out!" Ryo wins thanks to the discovery of the forbidden STAR PUNCH!
 
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I kind of maintain that I still want to see Ryo get taught by someone from the Chi You Men. I still think the perfect choice for his next mentor would be Ziming. Have Ziming take Ryo under his wing in the next game...there you have someone who can not only fill in the blanks of the Chi You Men but you also have someone who can teach Ryo a different style of martial arts. Xiuying was all about using Martial Arts as defense.

Ziming could be the opposite. Ziming could be all about Offense. Also, Ziming knows Lan Di and if they write the story to be that Ziming has an issue with Lan Di and is paired with Niao Sun then you have a reason for Ziming taking an interest in training Ryo. Also, you can have Ziming the exposition man and deliver a lot of missing blanks in regards to the Chi You Men and how it operates. That's something we need to find out more about and the only way in regards to how this story is being that you could find concrete info and not just hear say is to hear it from someone within the Chi You Men or someone who has been apart of the Chi You Men.

That's something Ryo needs to learn at some point. He needs to learn how to be a little more aggressive and almost "strike first, strike hard" (if you will) and who better to teach him that then a man who has followed the path of revenge? (presumably)

And through Ryo, maybe Ziming gets a chance at Redemption later on in the story.

So I kind of maintain...these games always have a master...Ziming would almost be a perfect choice for a future master to Ryo. It would be the counter balance of your time spent with Xiuying.

But as to when he will be ready? He'll be ready once he's fully learnt the full extent of Bajiquan. That's my guess.
 
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I don't think Ziming should be redeemed, I think that's Lan Di's arc where he turns on Chi You on Tentei. Ziming is also an orphan, and he's Lan Di if he doesn't break free from 'the path of evil' I think it will challenge Xiuying more as a character if she has to accept he can't be saved, she has to let go and he eventually gets himself killed with his own agenda. I think that will contrast with Ryo having to let go of his revenge. Xiuying or Ryo giving him the Yang bead and helping them fight the CYM, I don't think that would push the characters as much.

Also it's the same with Iwao killing Sumning, that should be true and not just a lie by the CYM, because it challenges Ryo's perception of his father, it adds more inner conflict.
 
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I kind of maintain that I still want to see Ryo get taught by someone from the Chi You Men.
Yeah. I’ve considered this idea a lot as well. The Chi You Men have a history of killing young men’s fathers and then later recruiting them to do their bidding. Assuming, as Ryo currently believes, that Iwao didn’t kill Sunming and that it was actually the Chi You Men, that would make both Lan Di and Zimming that we know about.

I could definitely see Tentei/Zhu trying to turn Ryo’s anger into strength in much the same way that the Emperor does with Luke in Star Wars. It wouldn’t be the first parallel to Star Wars either; a series that I recall Yu mentioning in connection with Shenmue more than once.
 
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Yeah. I’ve considered this idea a lot as well. The Chi You Men have a history of killing young men’s fathers and then later recruiting them to do their bidding. Assuming, as Ryo currently believes, that Iwao didn’t kill Sunming and that it was actually the Chi You Men, that would make both Lan Di and Zimming that we know about.

I could definitely see Tentei/Zhu trying to turn Ryo’s anger into strength in much the same way that the Emperor does with Luke in Star Wars. It wouldn’t be the first parallel to Star Wars either; a series that I recall Yu mentioning in connection with Shenmue more than once.
I agree Tentei is Yuandha Zhu (or one of the other leaders), and he's been playing both sides in the guise of different personas, in some weird plan. Tentei/Zhu might also be the imperial envoy we see flashes of in 3, and somehow he managed to slow down his ageing.


 

Revan

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Just had a random thought.

These Bajiquan moves we've been seeing in Shenmue 2 & 3 which seem important enough to have their title cards flash up when they are used, perhaps these moves are what Ryo needs in order to defeat Lan Di?

1617958393252.png1617958608526.png

Assuming that Lishao Tao and Xianzi Bei (maybe even Sun?) are some of the "grandmasters" we've heard about, maybe when Ryo learns all four of these Bajiquan moves from all four masters will he be ready to take on Lan Di. I could see the moves being worked into four QTE moments during the fight which all progressively weaken Lan Di's health.

Us needing to collect four abilities in order to defeat the bad guy kinda fits with video game logic I think.
 
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I agree Tentei is Yuandha Zhu (or one of the other leaders), and he's been playing both sides in the guise of different personas, in some weird plan. Tentei/Zhu might also be the imperial envoy we see flashes of in 3, and somehow he managed to slow down his ageing.


That’s an interesting theory, although he could just as easily be lying about his age. The envoy visited Bailu village in 1910, which is 77 years prior to the current date in game. Zhu’s stated date of birth is 1920, but he looks a little older than 66 in Shenmue 2 in my opinion. That said, for him to have been 16+ in 1910 would make him 95 now which might be a bit of a stretch.

To be fair though, I don’t Zhu would have needed to have been alive when the mirrors were first created to and is more likely to have learnt about them and taken an interest some time later. It’s possible that he learned about them through his best friend, Sunming, who spent time training in Bailu. For all we know it was this that led to the creation of the Chi You Men and a conflict between Zhu and Sunming that led to the latter’s death.
 
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Ryo will defeat Lan Di when they do battle again. I have always firmly believed that. Also I believe there will be a time skip during IV to show how much Ryo has grown as a martial artist. Since he has actually fought Lan Di once he will now be more determined than ever to defeat him.
 
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That’s an interesting theory, although he could just as easily be lying about his age. The envoy visited Bailu village in 1910, which is 77 years prior to the current date in game. Zhu’s stated date of birth is 1920, but he looks a little older than 66 in Shenmue 2 in my opinion. That said, for him to have been 16+ in 1910 would make him 95 now which might be a bit of a stretch.

To be fair though, I don’t Zhu would have needed to have been alive when the mirrors were first created to and is more likely to have learnt about them and taken an interest some time later. It’s possible that he learned about them through his best friend, Sunming, who spent time training in Bailu. For all we know it was this that led to the creation of the Chi You Men and a conflict between Zhu and Sunming that led to the latter’s death.
I think the envoy is one of the CYM and had interfered with the mirror's conception somehow, they say the mirrors resurrect Chi You and in II they say they're a treasure map, in II's title screen the mirror patterns glow like the Phoenix and Dragon are somehow sleeping inside them. I guess the envoy is Tentei and he has some supernatural quality, like the shadow of Chi You has slowed down his aging, preserving him for some nefarious goal.
 
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