Why do i see yakuza fans spreading hate on people who like shenmue 3?

[RyoHazuki84]

Most of these I consider 'budgetary conscious' decisions; they've cut down features to a more sustainable model, while still delivering a comparable experience, at least as far as I'm concerned. And I can't blame Sega; Shenmue was a huge money sink for them that didn't do too well commercially. Accolades, breaking new ground and a cult following are nice accomplishments, but at the end of the day it's a business and it's about making money.

However, while Yakuza was scaled back compared to Shenmue, I think it also made at least one major improvement:

- Tighter storytelling and it actually finished the story it wanted to tell.

Yes, I believe that the first game was made on a $22,000,000 budget and Nagoshi didn't think they would release it overseas, so he intentionally made it for an older Japanese audience. The first game does feel like it was intended to be "one and done" because Nagoshi banked his career on it. He told Sega if it failed, he would quit.

Having a grand, epic saga that spans over multiple releases is an awesome concept with huge *potential* pay-off, but what happens if the franchise dies halfway through? Unfortunately, we pretty much saw that play out until Shenmue's revival years later. And at this point we still don't know where/how/when and IF we'll ever see it finished. I'm fairly optimistic we'll get the ending, but obviously nobody knows for sure at this point.

I'll take certainty over that awful feeling of insecurity any day. Every Yakuza sequel ties in to and builds upon its predecessors, but the story of each game is self-contained. And they're still telling large, complex and fulfilling stories in each one.

And yeah, turning emotional attachment into expectation is something that tends to lead to disappointment. Not saying you're wrong, though. We've all been there at some point, so I can definitely sympathize.

But it's the reason some fans didn't like Shenmue III; people project 20 years of baggage into expectations that can never be met. The project could have had three times its budget and that still would have happened. I loved the game, but went into it fully aware how much of an uphill battle it was fighting and cut it some slack for the things that weren't perfect.

Yes, and that is of course where the difference lies even more. The first Yakuza game was intended to be just one game, and Shenmue was intended to be (maybe at minimum or over?) five games. Yes, the Yakuza games do build upon each other and do a good job of telling their own self-contained stories, which is good. For example, Yakuza 0, as it relates to Majima's story, does connect to Yakuza 4 in some ways (such as why he's in Osaka and who Saejima is) but by no means are you obligated to play 4 before 0, etc.

Yes, I was initially disappointed in Yakuza, but in time, I've come to appreciate it as its own unique franchise along with its spin-offs such as Kurohyo and Judgment.

As for Shenmue 3 not being perfect, neither were the first two. They had their own distinctive flaws or qualities that need to improve, but isn't that the same with every game out there? For almost 20 years, Suzuki was very open with what Shenmue III was in concept in that it would develop inwardly as opposed to outwardly and when I played Shenmue III, I felt that. As I have said in other threads and this one before, I am satisfied with Shenmue III. It was 85% the game I was expecting it to be. I feel some people were affected by "the passage of time," etc. Some people were expecting a conclusive ending, I wasn't. I was always expecting a cliffhanger ending and I was satisfied with where it ended.

Guess I also needed to get some things off my chest. Feels good, though.

Considering you didn't start posting until now, I don't blame you.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Great points, @You Arcade Clerk and you are definitely one of the good fans, as you definitely understand where the two series sit and their good/bad points.

The only thing I can really criticise is that RH84 is right; they are NOT siblings and the, "cousins," comparison is absolutely spot-on.

All texts, historically, borrow from other, earlier texts that have already existed and have been consumed to death (this goes back to the Ancient Greeks), thus it absolutely stands that RGG would have borrowed SOME things from 'mue.

But they are conceptually, design-wise and, biggest of all, genre-wise, different titles and have been from the very first game.

One has the core gameplay be AA, the other has the core gameplay be Beat-'em-Up; yes, you fight in 'mue and you travel around in RGG, but those aren't the main points of the game. They have a bunch of minigames and side things that can be done, but so do RPGs from the late 90s, GTA series, hell, even MK: Deception had sidethings and minigames and that's a FIGHTING game lol.

So to say that RGG borrowed from 'mue is false at worst and a serious grey-area at best. I can almost guarantee that RGG would exist if 'mue didn't, simply because Nagosh' was looking to make a game that would tell the story of a Yakuza, in Beat-'em-Up form. From things I've read throughout the years, he seemed content of doing a side-scroller in the spirit of a 3D SoR or FF-style game, but he was ambitious and wanted to make it as, "open world," as possible (again, not direct quotes), hence him taking a chance with the series.

The only thing that can ever be considered a direct 1:1 comparison, are the inclusion of older, Sega Arcade games.

That's it.

And I'm a GARGANTUAN fan of both series (they are also my 2 favourite); 'mue II is my 3rd favourite game ever and RGG3 is my 4th favourite game ever, plus I have a massive Ryo tattooed on my leg (with the Phoenix Mirror behind him), Majima's eyepatch and Kiryu as well (in the pose of the cover of 3), plus I've beaten every RGG game (including the Kurohyos, Kenzan! and Ishin!, save for 7 and LJ) at least twice (3 I've beaten 4 times, 5 and 0 I've beaten 3 times) and I've beaten both 'mues 11 times and 'mue III once. So yeah, I'm not blowing hot air out my ass

 

[You Arcade Clerk]

Thanks for welcoming me, guys!

We're all just expressing personal takes and interpretations here and there's no objective truth to any of them.

While I definitely think it's possible a Yakuza game would have eventually seen the light of day, I don't buy that it would been the same experience we ultimately ended up with, had Shenmue never existed.

Both franchises scratch a similar itch I have and for that alone they'll always be siblings to me. I couldn't care less about genres not matching. They both are so much more than just the sum of their parts and I don't think either one can be pigeonholed into just one specific genre anyway.

With all of that said, whether we consider them fruits growing on adjacent trees at a farm, cousins or siblings, ultimately it feels like we're splitting hairs. I think we - the fans of both, that is - can agree on the umbrella term 'family'. At least I can.

 

[RyoHazuki84]

Yes, Yakuza has opportunities to grow and evolve in its own way. Yakuza has been going non-stop since the end of 2005 (in Japan). While Yakuza outside of Japan has faced its own unique obstacles (for example, the fifth game came out in 2012 while it didn't get an international release until 2015 but not without a physical release), Sega fans had to wait 17-to-18 years for Shenmue 3, so Shenmue 3 never got those same opportunities, but Suzuki always had a concept on how he wanted the games to develop.

As I think about it, how would Yakuza benefit from world exploring like in Shenmue. Kiryu doesn't necessarily have to go inside every room and look at every object. I like how in Shenmue, you can ask people how to find a certain place. Can Yakuza benefit from interacting with NPCs who can tell you where you can find a ramen restaurant? IMHO, I think so. Considering the stories each game tells, maybe they don't require each other's qualities after all.

Was a Yakuza game inevitable regardless of Shenmue's existence? I wouldn't rule it out. In that time, games were starting to become more cinematic. Would open world still be inevitable without Shenmue? Maybe, but I doubt it would reach the same level of detail Shenmue offers because a lot of open world games since then haven't.