Why some are disappointed Chai fights are QTEs ?

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Dg1995

Joined
Dec 19, 2019
In the end of the first game, Ryo managed to beat him. The time that he was less skilled than the way he is at the whole Shenmue 3.

So Chai only deserves a QTE imo. Why some are disappointed by this ?

Also I remember that Chai wasn't in Chi You Men so it makes sense that he is weaker than Red Snake guys.
 
I believe that if Ryo had an actual fight with Chai at the end in Bailu village and where he was holding captive the stonemasons, it would have been much better overall.
They should have done something similar to the fight with master Baihu, by mixing both the fighting and the QTE's.
 
Miles Prower said:
As some have pointed out, the most likely reason the fights are QTE's is that Chai's fighting style would have been too complex to implement into the fighting engine, given the budget and limitations
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Yeah, most likely! And I do think that settling the score in a pretty well animated QTE/cutscene was the next best thing.

As I've said in other threads, the choreography in the fight QTEs and cutscenes is seriously impressive in Shenmue 3. Remember that Vamp v Raiden fight in MGS4 that looked cool but actually went on for an age and didn't have any tension because it was just unrealistic flashy cool shit happening with no real substance? The fight scenes in Shenmue 3 are like the opposite; short and memorable and full of realistic(ish) kung fu.
 
Miles Prower said:
As some have pointed out, the most likely reason the fights are QTE's is that Chai's fighting style would have been too complex to implement into the fighting engine, given the budget and limitations
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I personally think that it's because that he was no match for Ryo in those fights.

Similar to Electrocutioner bossfight in Batman Arkham Origins.(Where Batman just beats him with a kick)
 
Dg1995 said:
In the end of the first game, Ryo managed to beat him. The time that he was less skilled than the way he is at the whole Shenmue 3.
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You can say the same for Chai. Considering how Chai is obsessive by travelling so far, reappearing so often and how Shenhua managed to excite him, Chai was worth a real fight.

If the game only implied artistic decisions, Chai would certainly be a fight I think.

Anyway, the music ruined the moment more than the QTE itself.
 
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Honestly I wish Chai didn't show up at all he's already served his purpose to the plot and been beaten, and are the side story comics canon? I think they are because that woman thanks Ryo when they get off the boat for helping them? Although I found his bedroom in the Old Castle hilarious.
 
The fact he was defeated with QTEs isn't what bothered me. It's his lack of a purpose as a character that ruffled my feathers. The game included him simply as fanservice (indicative of the fact he still doesn't have a backstory - he was just "there") but also tried to pass him off as being introduced to the series for the first time (by not acknowledging his past encounter with Ryo, besides Japan being marked on the map in his room). It didn't make much sense to me.
 
Lan Di-sama said:
The fact he was defeated with QTEs isn't what bothered me. It's his lack of a purpose as a character that ruffled my feathers. The game included him simply as fanservice (indicative of the fact he still doesn't have a backstory - he was just "there") but also tried to pass him off as being introduced to the series for the first time (by not acknowledging his past encounter with Ryo, besides Japan being marked on the map in his room). It didn't make much sense to me.
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Maybe he is going to be a main villain in a chapter of 4. Yu said that he may use some of the ideas of that boat chapter.
 
Because at the end of the day Chai isn't some scrub so being taken out on one or two hits isn't fitting. It's like Lan Di's bodyguards getting dropped in 8 seconds. They shouldn't be getting dropped doo easily

As far as the Chi You Men membership, I'm assuming they are very selective and Chai is clearly an outcast. Seeing some hunchback, gaunt, bug eyed dude who behaves in somewhat primitive ways and likely has questionable hygiene would make most people apprehensive on including him. I see it similar to when king leonidas told the hunchback dude he couldn't fight with them. The Chi You probably think hes lacking something or will be too unpredictable and this a liability.
 
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Dehone said:
Because at the end of the day Chai isn't some scrub so being taken out on one or two hits isn't fitting. It's like Lan Di's bodyguards getting dropped in 8 seconds. They shouldn't be getting dropped doo easily
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It kinda makes sense that Lan Di bodyguards are much weaker than him though.
Since if they weren't then they would easily kill Lan Di and replace him as the leader of Chi You Men.

Also there is this that those body guards understimated Ryo and as a result they dropped their guards.

Chai never had any trainings from Shenmue 1-3 so it really makes sense that now Ryo has surpassed him even more.
 
Most likely real world answer IMO, is that for budgetary reasons they weren’t able to have Chai’s fighting style implemented properly.

In-game explanation, I’m happy enough to accept that Ryo’s abilities have surpassed Chai enough to best him with more ease than before. Given the real life development limitations, this works for me fine.
 
Dg1995 said:
It kinda makes sense that Lan Di bodyguards are much weaker than him though.
Since if they weren't then they would easily kill Lan Di and replace him as the leader of Chi You Men.

Also there is this that those body guards understimated Ryo and as a result they dropped their guards.

Chai never had any trainings from Shenmue 1-3 so it really makes sense that now Ryo has surpassed him even more.
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For them to want to kill them, that would imply that these guys never had respect for Lan Di in the first place where in an organization such as the Chi You Men, there should be extreme vetting. Not anyone would be appointed as Lan Di's bodyguards. As a fighter, Lan Di is so much more capable as a fighter that he should have bodyguards that are still above Ryo as fighter but not as capable as Lan Di, even in a 3 on 1. And as one of the four bosses of such a large organization, it would be natural to have the most capable people be the ones who are responsible for protecting you from outside threats.

In real life, some of the most violent and capable people are appointed these positions due to their effectiveness and loyalty. Whether its Pablo Escobar and his most loyal bodyguard and hitman, Popeye or Bugsy Seigel as he was the top enforcer for the mob's hitman branch who eventually became a boss himself.

As far as Chai training, we dont know if he hasnt done any training. Given he is clearly skilled in martial arts, I dont see him neglecting his training for all these months. However, he likely trains alone as most people aren't willing to interact with him and he likely avoids people voluntarily so that could be reason Ryo can beat him consistently.
 
Sh3ppy said:
Most likely real world answer IMO, is that for budgetary reasons they weren’t able to have Chai’s fighting style implemented properly.

In-game explanation, I’m happy enough to accept that Ryo’s abilities have surpassed Chai enough to best him with more ease than before. Given the real life development limitations, this works for me fine.
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Except Shenmue III took a stand to destroy any credibility for that hypothesis as the game considers that barely progressed. That hypothesis could stand on its own if Shenmue III made you fight meaningful opponents. But the thing is, Ryo is still fighting subpar thugs (don't tell me Spider tatoo guy and Biker guy are martial artists). Heck, Ryo is still getting is ass whooped by mid tier thugs (The Bailu muscled thug and dont tell me this guy is stronger than Baihu).

Heck, if we accepted that: Strong opponents = real fights, weak opponents = QTE, that'd mean Lan Di's bodyguards are the weakest shit ever.
 
GhostTrick said:
Heck, if we accepted that: Strong opponents = real fights, weak opponents = QTE, that'd mean Lan Di's bodyguards are the weakest shit ever.
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Why do you believe that bodyguards should be top tier fighters ? In martial art movies bodyguards of the main antagonists are always weak.(Like Enter the Dragon movie where the heroes easily beat the bodyguards of the main bad guy without any trouble.)

Ren whom barely practices martial arts managed to beat that Bruce Lee wanna be bodyguard without any trouble.

So those bodyguards deserve a QTE.

But they aren't the lowest tier though. Lowest tier=Having a very small HP
 
GhostTrick said:
Except Shenmue III took a stand to destroy any credibility
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Lolol, talk about hyperbole.

I’m not saying I don’t see what you’re getting at, because I do, but it’s hardly as ridiculously extreme as “destroyed any credibility!!!!!” As I posted above, I’m happy to accept aspects in the story given what we know, and what we don’t, re. real life limitations. In this case Chai’s QTE events. Just because things didn’t pan out exactly like you would have written it, doesn’t make it invalid either.

A bit OT but I guess not everyone’s Shenmue experience has been obliterated by S3 like yours appears to have been. The good far outweighs the bad for me.
 
Dg1995 said:
Why do you believe that bodyguards should be top tier fighters ? In martial art movies bodyguards of the main antagonists are always weak.(Like Enter the Dragon movie where the heroes easily beat the bodyguards of the main bad guy without any trouble.)

Ren whom barely practices martial arts managed to beat that Bruce Lee wanna be bodyguard without any trouble.

So those bodyguards deserve a QTE.

But they aren't the lowest tier though. Lowest tier=Having a very small HP
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You're mixing something: Weaker than the main character and weak.
Lan Di bodyguards are weaker than Ryo, because Ryo improved.
Lan Di bodyguards aren't weakshit thugs.

Hence why you're theory doesn't make sense at all. If it held any truth, the guy with a scar in Bailu would be a QTE. The thugs in Bailu would be a QTE.

It's obvious why those fights were QTE: Lack of budget. Is it a problem ? No, not that much. But trying to explain that with non-sensical theories is far fetched.


Sh3ppy said:
Lolol, talk about hyperbole.

I’m not saying I don’t see what you’re getting at, because I do, but it’s hardly as ridiculously extreme as “destroyed any credibility!!!!!” As I posted above, I’m happy to accept aspects in the story given what we know, and what we don’t, re. real life limitations. In this case Chai’s QTE events. Just because things didn’t pan out exactly like you would have written it, doesn’t make it invalid either.

A bit OT but I guess not everyone’s Shenmue experience has been obliterated by S3 like yours appears to have been. The good far outweighs the bad for me.
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What hyperbole ? Did you even read my post ?
I didn't say that Shenmue III destroyed any credibility to the game or the serie wtf.
I'm talking about OP's theory. Any credibility to OP's theory that "low tier fighters only deserve a QTE". Because if that was the case, all the thugs fights would've been QTEs.

You're the one being hyperbolic here, because you're completly misreading my post to twist it to something it never meant.
 
GhostTrick said:
You're mixing something: Weaker than the main character and weak.
Lan Di bodyguards are weaker than Ryo, because Ryo improved.
Lan Di bodyguards aren't weakshit thugs.

Hence why you're theory doesn't make sense at all. If it held any truth, the guy with a scar in Bailu would be a QTE. The thugs in Bailu would be a QTE.

It's obvious why those fights were QTE: Lack of budget. Is it a problem ? No, not that much. But trying to explain that with non-sensical theories is far fetched.





What hyperbole ? Did you even read my post ?
I didn't say that Shenmue III destroyed any credibility to the game or the serie wtf.
I'm talking about OP's theory. Any credibility to OP's theory that "low tier fighters only deserve a QTE". Because if that was the case, all the thugs fights would've been QTEs.

You're the one being hyperbolic here, because you're completly misreading my post to twist it to something it never meant.
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Look man, as a general observation, any time someone has something positive to say about S3, you have to come barrelling in to tell them how they are wrong and how their perspective makes no sense. It’s something that goes back to before the game was even released. I’ve said I get where you’re coming from re. some of your points, but overall I can get on board with the Chai QTE’s and the reasoning behind them. Both in-game and real-life dev reasons. That’s the third time I make this particular point.

I would be inclined to elaborate more and engage if I thought it would lead to some kind of useful discourse. But it’s not very productive to predictably be met with “no, makes no sense”, “no, credibility destroyed”, “no, no, no”. It makes it very hard to take any valid points you may have seriously.
 
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