General RGG Discussion

Sput Vas Normandy said:
Yeah I got it but still. We've seen things a lot darker and shaddy (Yakuza 3) and we lived on. It was like too much hype imo.
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Mhh i dont know. I think Yakuza 3 is a bit different.
Yes its about politics and Japan USA and that stuff but the overall theme is not about
Japan being the 'bad guys'. The japanese authorities defeat the 'real' problem and thats it.
In the end, its more about defeating invaders i guess? The theme is not about condemning Japans leadership
or authorities, there is more to it on a wider scale and they fix the problem.
The plan of Japans leadership / authorities to fix the problem is not about bad intentions.

But in Yakuza 6 the problem is about Japans leadership, old covered up war activities and such things.
There is nothing heroic about it, the whole problem was created by japanese authorities
and they dont want anyone to find out. There is no agreement to accept and fight the problem,
there are no bigger positive intentions behind it.
Instead they would do anything to hide the secret forever. They know about the secret
and dont want to do anything about it. The leadership even offers Kiryu hush money
because they are so afraid of the truth coming out. So i think overall Yakuza 6 is more critical
about Japans leadership. Theres no big reveal scene that shows how everything is fine now.

Theres a bigger plan behind Japans authorities / leadership in Yakuza 3 that is actually about fighting the problem.
Its kind of a positive secret in a way.
Yakuza 6 is all about Japans authorities / leadership hiding the problem.
And the secret is not positive.
 
Tosh said:
Mhh i dont know. I think Yakuza 3 is a bit different.
Yes its about politics and Japan USA and that stuff but the overall theme is not about
Japan being the 'bad guys'. The japanese authorities defeat the 'real' problem and thats it.
In the end, its more about defeating invaders i guess? The theme is not about condemning Japans leadership
or authorities, there is more to it on a wider scale and they fix the problem.
The plan of Japans leadership / authorities to fix the problem is not about bad intentions.

But in Yakuza 6 the problem is about Japans leadership, old covered up war activities and such things.
There is nothing heroic about it, the whole problem was created by japanese authorities
and they dont want anyone to find out. There is no agreement to accept and fight the problem,
there are no bigger positive intentions behind it.
Instead they would do anything to hide the secret forever. They know about the secret
and dont want to do anything about it. The leadership even offers Kiryu hush money
because they are so afraid of the truth coming out. So i think overall Yakuza 6 is more critical
about Japans leadership. Theres no big reveal scene that shows how everything is fine now.

Theres a bigger plan behind Japans authorities / leadership in Yakuza 3 that is actually about fighting the problem.
Its kind of a positive secret in a way.
Yakuza 6 is all about Japans authorities / leadership hiding the problem.
And the secret is not positive.
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In Y3 you have politician names, with faces and so on. You can talk with them, they are part of the story. You have organizations and so on. In Y6 it's too abstract, you jsut have the old guy that barely lives and barely appears, and the shaddy guy in the hospital at the end, and still, it's too abstract.

Finished Y6. About finale

I'm a bit pissed off. I dont like finales like House MD (pretending the death so fans wont ask a sequel of that character). Yeah, it's nice the fact that he's not dead, but at what price? He wont be seeing his family. They wont know he's alive. Is that really happyness? No. And you could say "well, he made that to protect them". Alright, got it, but at least go to Taiwan with my hostess waifu, Idk mate, you can solve it a bit better maybe. I'd prefer him death instead of that finales, but anyway. Still a great game. Loved the fighting style and I missed the food system of 0.

Y0
Y5
Y6
Y4
Y3
YK1
YK2

My gf is asking me to say to you guys that she cried at the end, even when she barely knows the story. I'll make her see the entire series by Youtube.
 
Sput Vas Normandy said:
Finishing Y6, about the secret

of Onomichi. Seemed super dumb to me. Idk. They hyped it so much. I was kinda imagine nazi's gold or The Fountain of Youth, lol
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Not problem, Sput; you didn't get it, like the majority of people who played the game, didn't. It's not your fault.

As I've written 50,000 times (lol), you have to have an intrinsic knowledge/background/experience (of which I don't have experience, of course) of the Japanese mentality around that time and just what it symbolizes; WWII left a massive, gaping wound on the country and in many ways, they still haven't recovered from it. Something like this, if it really existed, would be a gargantuan scandal, especially with the bigwigs who were involved and the shady dealings about keeping it under wraps... heads would roll and a giant conglomerate, that makes Billions upon Billions of Yen, would have severe dishonour, out-surrounding them and they (and their families) would all be completely-disgraced, for the rest of their lives.

To us in the West, it's all, "meh, It's just a
ship. What does a ship from 70-80 years ago, have to do with this story?"
But to Japanese, it's a political thriller right up their alley; there's a reason why the only issue the Japanese had with the plot (on the whole), was about Haruka's, "change of behavior," (which is bullshit) and not the Secret itself: they understood it.

I just happen to enjoy (I'm not a buff, per se) WWII stories and my favourite military object on the planet,
is the battleship
, so I understood this plot to a perfect T, hence why I've been over the moon since I beat it lol.

I'm a bit pissed off. I dont like finales like House MD (pretending the death so fans wont ask a sequel of that character). Yeah, it's nice the fact that he's not dead, but at what price? He wont be seeing his family. They wont know he's alive. Is that really happyness? No. And you could say "well, he made that to protect them". Alright, got it, but at least go to Taiwan with my hostess waifu, Idk mate, you can solve it a bit better maybe. I'd prefer him death instead of that finales, but anyway. Still a great game. Loved the fighting style and I missed the food system of 0.

1. I think you missed the point again:

Kiryu realized that this was the only way he could let his kids and Haruka live in peace; he tried getting away once after 1, but got embroiled back into Tojo Business. He tried starting the orphanage in 3, but got embroiled back into Tojo Business. He tried running away to Fukuoka to completely start over, he was found and got embroiled back into Tojo Business. And every step of the way, Haruka's life was affected for the worse and he couldn't bear to continue bringing pain and sadness to the ones he loves, so this is the only way to put an end to it, once and for all. Nobody knows where he lives, nobody knows what he does and he probably has enough money by now, that he doesn't need to keep working or do anything, to get involved with any business anymore, unless HE wants to get involved ;)

That makes the ending 100% acceptable and understandable. Sobo played on my walk to work this morning and I immediately thought about 6's ending... couldn't help but tear up...

2. About Happiness, again, many don't remember Kiryu's speech at the beginning of 5, to Aizawa and Morinaga. Kiryu knows he can never be happy; he's a Yakuza to the core and trouble will never leave him alone or never need assistance to those who are in trouble. He knows he can't escape the life, no matter how hard he tries, so again, this is the only way (ties into my answer 1, above).

3. This has seemingly flown over the heads of everyone, who has played 2; it was established in the first game and hammered home in subsequent games (ESPECIALLY 5), that Kiryu had 1 love of his life and only 1 love; Yumi. It wasn't Nishkiyama's death that made him want to give up his life at the end of 1, it was Yumi's death that had him shattered, as he felt he could not be with his one true love, maybe start a family and move on, in retirement. This is why he starts an orphanage (to have a family), this is why he rejects Mayumi, this is why he has no attraction to Saeko, etc., etc. 2 shoehorning a terrible character (Sayama) as Kiryu's love interest, made 0 sense to the character himself and what was established; there's a reason why she is banished unceremoniously, in 3 and hasn't returned (and never will, thank God).

4. I'm not trying to spoil, but you need to play 7... that's all :)

People don't have to like 6's plot or even get it, as it is intrinsically-Japanese and rooted in traditions/history that younger people will not be aware of, but it is so well-written and conceptualized, Yokoyama and Furuta knocked it out of the park.
 
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Truck_1_0_1_ said:
To us in the West, it's all, "meh, It's just a
ship. What does a ship from 70-80 years ago, have to do with this story?"
But to Japanese, it's a political thriller right up their alley; there's a reason why the only issue the Japanese had with the plot (on the whole), was about Haruka's, "change of behavior," (which is bullshit) and not the Secret itself; they understood it.
Click to expand...
I think the explanation for that one is still the idea that an "idol" should be pure and wholesome. Yes, Haruka's idol days are behind her but still, it's obvious the fanbase wanted her to remain pure and wholesome with that mindset so the thought of her being deflowered and having a baby at such a young age was not the norm and therefore she was no longer pure and wholesome in their eyes.

I agree, it's bullshit to get annoyed with -- so what if she had a baby with some guy? But clearly different mindsets at work here in different cultures.

Also the very ending never bothered me. It made sense: (Yakuza 7 spoiler included)

As is evident with Yakuza 7....Kiryu's always gonna be pulled back into the Tojo fold. He's never gonna escape it. He's always gonna be pulled back in because he's an honorable man that will always have the clans best interests at heart. I think at the end of Y6, he finally realized there was no escaping that and the only way to possibly escape it or stop it from effecting the ones he loves was simply to walk away from those he loves.

But the interesting thing about Kiryu's saga has always been to me that it's not just Kiryu's journey. It's Haruka's journey too. And through the course of 6 games, we see Haruka mature from a 12 year old kid (?) to a young woman with a family of her own. I think that's why Y6 worked for me. The ending is Haruka stepping up to the plate and taking over the orphanage as Kiryu kind of passes the torch to her. It was kind of a beautiful bittersweet ending to me. I would have been more annoyed if they did give everyone the big happy ending -- or I wouldn't have believed it because Y3 gave Kiryu a happy ending and yet Y4 pulled him right back into the fold so I wouldn't have believed it.

That's why Y6's ending regarding Kiryu worked for me. Kiryu is ALWAYS gonna be a man of the clan. There is always that threat of being pulled back in. Haruka is now the surrogate mother-figure of the orphan kids. Yes, it's sad to think that Haruka and Kiryu may never see one another again, but Kiryu's job as her surrogate father is done as she matures into a young woman who is capable of fending for herself with her own family. It's bittersweet. And I like that type of ending.

Anyways, as for the secret of Onomichi, I didn't have a problem with it first play through. I thought it was kind of an interesting plot reveal given what others have already said here regarding Japan's WW2 post-war status.
 
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The write-ups above about the secret in Yakuza 6 explain it beautifully, even though I still don’t particularly care for it. I was disappointed my first play-through, didn’t have as big an issue my second time, and now I barely remember any of it (until the above posts).

The significance of the secret makes a whole lot of sense now, but I’m gonna chalk it up to my western perspective and say this is one of the very few times in the series that I’ll say it’s just a cultural difference. Personally, I would’ve loved if the story focused more on the whole Haruka-Hokuto (or whatever the baby’s name was) plot. The small moments like when Kiryu returns to the orphanage and sees all the kids grown up, or when he visits Haruka in the hospital, those were AMAZING in how emotional and subtle they were. That feeling is increased so much by having played and stuck with the series from the beginning. Incredible storytelling moments those were, in any medium.

But I totally understand. If the Haruka thing wasn’t to taste of the Japanese audience and the Onomichi secret was, then that makes sense. Still disappointing to me, but I totally, totally understand. As it is, my second play through was far more fun than my first, and I had a good time on my first go. This is still one of my top 3 in the series.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Not problem, Sput; you didn't get it, like the majority of people who played the game, didn't. It's not your fault.

As I've written 50,000 times (lol), you have to have an intrinsic knowledge/background/experience (of which I don't have experience, of course) of the Japanese mentality around that time and just what it symbolizes; WWII left a massive, gaping wound on the country and in many ways, they still haven't recovered from it. Something like this, if it really existed, would be a gargantuan scandal, especially with the bigwigs who were involved and the shady dealings about keeping it under wraps... heads would roll and a giant conglomerate, that makes Billions upon Billions of Yen, would have severe dishonour, out-surrounding them and they (and their families) would all be completely-disgraced, for the rest of their lives.

To us in the West, it's all, "meh, It's just a
ship. What does a ship from 70-80 years ago, have to do with this story?"
But to Japanese, it's a political thriller right up their alley; there's a reason why the only issue the Japanese had with the plot (on the whole), was about Haruka's, "change of behavior," (which is bullshit) and not the Secret itself: they understood it.

I just happen to enjoy (I'm not a buff, per se) WWII stories and my favourite military object on the planet,
is the battleship
, so I understood this plot to a perfect T, hence why I've been over the moon since I beat it lol.

I'm a bit pissed off. I dont like finales like House MD (pretending the death so fans wont ask a sequel of that character). Yeah, it's nice the fact that he's not dead, but at what price? He wont be seeing his family. They wont know he's alive. Is that really happyness? No. And you could say "well, he made that to protect them". Alright, got it, but at least go to Taiwan with my hostess waifu, Idk mate, you can solve it a bit better maybe. I'd prefer him death instead of that finales, but anyway. Still a great game. Loved the fighting style and I missed the food system of 0.

1. I think you missed the point again:

Kiryu realized that this was the only way he could let his kids and Haruka live in peace; he tried getting away once after 1, but got embroiled back into Tojo Business. He tried starting the orphanage in 3, but got embroiled back into Tojo Business. He tried running away to Fukuoka to completely start over, he was found and got embroiled back into Tojo Business. And every step of the way, Haruka's life was affected for the worse and he couldn't bear to continue bringing pain and sadness to the ones he loves, so this is the only way to put an end to it, once and for all. Nobody knows where he lives, nobody knows what he does and he probably has enough money by now, that he doesn't need to keep working or do anything, to get involved with any business anymore, unless HE wants to get involved ;)

That makes the ending 100% acceptable and understandable. Sobo played on my walk to work this morning and I immediately thought about 6's ending... couldn't help but tear up...

2. About Happiness, again, many don't remember Kiryu's speech at the beginning of 5, to Aizawa and Morinaga. Kiryu knows he can never be happy; he's a Yakuza to the core and trouble will never leave him alone or never need assistance to those who are in trouble. He knows he can't escape the life, no matter how hard he tries, so again, this is the only way (ties into my answer 1, above).

3. This has seemingly flown over the heads of everyone, who has played 2; it was established in the first game and hammered home in subsequent games (ESPECIALLY 5), that Kiryu had 1 love of his life and only 1 love; Yumi. It wasn't Nishkiyama's death that made him want to give up his life at the end of 1, it was Yumi's death that had him shattered, as he felt he could not be with his one true love, maybe start a family and move on, in retirement. This is why he starts an orphanage (to have a family), this is why he rejects Mayumi, this is why he has no attraction to Saeko, etc., etc. 2 shoehorning a terrible character (Sayama) as Kiryu's love interest, made 0 sense to the character himself and what was established; there's a reason why she is banished unceremoniously, in 3 and hasn't returned (and never will, thank God).

4. I'm not trying to spoil, but you need to play 7... that's all :)

People don't have to like 6's plot or even get it, as it is intrinsically-Japanese and rooted in traditions/history that younger people will not be aware of, but it is so well-written and conceptualized, Yokoyama and Furuta knocked it out of the park.
Click to expand...
Yeah I suppose you're right about the
Yamato part
But I kinda disagree with the end. There are 3 possible endings here (Bojack Horseman's spoilers in next spoiler
The Bojack Horseman's ending:
He's miserable, everybody get its better but him, and suddenly... He just recovers and it's happy. Bullshit
The House MD/Yakuza series ending:
He's miserable, he makes everybody's life miserable, but we dont have the guts to kill him, so we make him "vanish away" pretending it's death so fans cant ask for a new season with that character. Thats a coward's end imo. Like you said, if its about "being happy", he wont. If its about protect people (obviously) he cant, because this stuff happened in Y5, and they found it. Not only they found it, they were watching him with precise data, involving people with him. They know everything about it, doesnt matter he even changed his name. This proofs they can find him, Date san knows about it, if I need to get the truth, me and any Yakuza would start cutting Date san's fingers till he says the truth to me. I COUUUULD buy it only if Date San doesnt know it, and still it would be a cowards ending imo. Because he's like "dead". Dead but not dead.

The real ending of this 3 series should be:
The MC dies because he cant be happy and he affects everybody's life. But you need to have guts to do that.

I'm not bullshitting the series anyway, you know I'm kinda bitchy with this things, but always with respect. I loved the series, I loved this guys, I want more games, I want Judgement in PC, I want those Samurais games and so on. I'm just saying, I think they took the easy way. Obviusly you can think different, that's what opinions are about.
 
I understand the significance of Y6's story because they weren't exactly chummy with the Allies, the Koreans, the Chinese and the Taiwanese during the Second World War.

If Japan had an actual military again, East Asia will be embroiled in another bloody conflict. Japan has been defanged by foreign powers for this reason.

Incidentally, the primary reason why the actual Yakuza's power has been diminished in Japan is due to the pressure of the US Government.
 
20210331113217_1.jpg20210331115555_1.jpg20210331115833_1.jpg

The return of Blue Jacket Kiryu! I love the modding community :D

Also, it's kind of nice to play Yakuza 6 at 90-120 (it hovers around there for me at current settings) frames per second considering the PS4 version had a lot of frame rate issues on the standard PS4 at launch.

I know some people had issues with the combat in Y6...but I actually kind of like the heavier feel it has. It felt less floaty and more impactful.

And the fact that every side story is fully voiced is nice as well, And remembering the feel of being able to walk into a store seamlessly without load time was a drastic improvement from the old games at the time.

Have I mentioned before that I really love Yakuza 6? Even though it doesn't have the wide breadth of side content that Y5 had...I just love the fact that it feels most polished in presentation.
 
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There were only two things that i didnt like about Yakuza 6.
The reversed tower defence clan creator mini game - and not the game itself
but how many missions there are in that mode. Way too many.
And some of the character models look a bit odd, like they are made out of clay
and the eyes look kind of soulless.


Also two things they never fixed since they started using the new Dragon Engine:
1. Using stairs or walking uphill / downhill looks very weird if you look at the animation from the side.
The leg animations react to the steps or street angle but the rest of the body doesnt.
Its a very robotic unnatural look.
2. The speed of the walking animation is a bit too fast when you press the stick 100%.
Its looks wrong, like the character is about to trip. It looks way better and correct if you only press the stick about 50-70%.

These two things are in all of the new Dragon Engine games.
 
Tosh said:
Also two things they never fixed since they started using the new Dragon Engine:
1. Using stairs or walking uphill / downhill looks very weird if you look at the animation from the side.
The leg animations react to the steps or street angle but the rest of the body doesnt.
Its a very robotic unnatural look.
2. The speed of the walking animation is a bit too fast when you press the stick 100%.
Its looks wrong, like the character is about to trip. It looks way better and correct if you only press the stick about 50-70%.

These two things are in all of the new Dragon Engine games.
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Yooo...I thought I was the only one who noticed/cared about stuff like that!!!
 
Your Boy Leroy said:
Yooo...I thought I was the only one who noticed/cared about stuff like that!!!
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No, i'm one of these 'role playing' players i guess.
So my characters are walking most of the time, they are only running
if it fits the situation. I hate it when i watch live streams or videos of people playing stuff
like Skyrim and they are sprinting through the towns, skipping all the dialogue,
then quicktravel to the quest item ... thats not my style at all.

I dont know why but i always imagine how this would look in real life or in a movie
when someone is running around there like a wild chicken,
speaking to everyone for 2 seconds and everybody is like ??? whats up with this guy. I dont like that.

So 'my Kiryu' or Ichiban or whatever doesnt run when i'm walking around in Kamurocho or Yokohama.
Because why would they? Why would the almost 50 year old Kiryu in Yakuza 6 sprint to a coffee shop?
Why would the Yakuza 7 group sprint to a family mart to buy flower seeds?
Why would Arthur in RDR2 run around in his camp like hes crazy?
I simply dont like the look of it. It doesnt fit the scene.
I only let them run if the mission is urgent.

But thats also why i'm very nitpicky when it comes to stuff like walking animations
and it just looks ridiculous when Kiryu walks with the controller stick at 100% in Yakuza 6.
Or how he walks when he uses the uphill streets in Onomichi and it looks like
his knees and his upper body has two different brains.
I'm a big fan of well made and detailed character animations because i have to look at
it for hours and hours and hours because of my playstyle.
 
YOOOO I DO THE SAME THING.

I remember when the first Shenmue came out and my cousin was watching me play. He’d ask me why am I just walking everywhere instead of running to get to my destination. I told him he’d understand when he’s older. I was 12 at the time and he was 14 😂

The stair-climbing animation is even stranger in Judgement. Yagami looks like he’s crouch-walking at times.
 
Your Boy Leroy said:
YOOOO I DO THE SAME THING.

I remember when the first Shenmue came out and my cousin was watching me play. He’d ask me why am I just walking everywhere instead of running to get to my destination. I told him he’d understand when he’s older. I was 12 at the time and he was 14 😂

The stair-climbing animation is even stranger in Judgement. Yagami looks like he’s crouch-walking at times.
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Yeah and its still in Yakuza 7. Its like they only made the legs react to different height levels
but the upper body stays fixed and glued in the same position on top of it.
It looks like they have the legs of a robot because of some horrible car accident.
 
Tosh said:
Yeah and its still in Yakuza 7. Its like they only made the legs react to different height levels
but the upper body stays fixed and glued in the same position on top of it.
It looks like they have the legs of a robot because of some horrible car accident.
Click to expand...
I actually never noticed it until you pointed it out....now I notice it....oh well, still doesn't change the game for me.
 
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danielmann861 said:
I actually never noticed it until you pointed it out....now I notice it.
Click to expand...

I mean its a very important and serious problem, we have to spread the word and gain more attention.
Thats nothing we should ignore.
Maybe then we can start a go fund me campaign or something like that for the animation team.
I hope Nagoshi will appear on the E3 stage in summer and announce that they officially found and fixed the problem.


Kapp.png
 
After being a Shenmue fan for two decades and hearing countless comparisons, I finally completed my first Yakuza game yesterday. I picked Yakuza 0, and I really liked it.

What I loved the most about the game is the writing (though not necessarily the plot, as I will explain later). They striked a perfect balance with Kiryu as the main character. He is stoic and plain enough to serve as an avatar for any player, but at the same time he has a very marked personality. The game often shifts between hilarious and ultra-serious tones with grace, and has a lot of charm. The intertwining stories of Kiryu and Majima work really well to keep the interest of the player in high points of the story, like mini-cliffhangers between seasons of a TV show. Although I was a bit disappointed by both stories not interacting more directly in the end (I expected the encounter of both protagonists would be the climax of the game, and I was wrong).

The plot was ok, but it felt more like a soap opera than a meaty story. All the different Yakuza branches and bosses and their rivalries and alliances were good vehicles to carry the game, but not that interesting to me at the end of the day. Shenmue's story is much less intrincate, but feels more relatable, more universal and with much more weight (parent/son relationship, revenge, friendship, journey and discovery). Maybe if I complete the whole 7 games of the Kiryu saga I will think differently, though.

The environments of Yakuza 0 were beautiful and really faithful to the real cities they are based on (I've been to both Kabukicho and Dotonbori before in real life, and the game reminded me a lot about those trips). It's a shame, though, that I didn't get so familiar with the scenarios even after spending 70 hours wandering them. But that's what happens when you have a permanent mini-map with markers (one of the main successes of Shenmue I&II was avoiding them and make the player actually pay attention to the surroundings, IMO).

I really liked the combat too. For a casual player like me who never invested heavily in a technical fighting game like Virtua Fighter, it's much more fun than the fighting in Shenmue (which I fully respect and understand might be the superior one). The random encounters are a bit tiring at the end, but that "money confetti" thing is so useful (and so hilarious and so "on-context" with the theme of the game and of that era of Japan) that I forgive that :-).

Another thing that made me think of Shenmue is the voice acting, and specifically the lack of it for substories and other segments. I thought that before, but this game confirms me in the belief that Shenmue should ditch the full voice acting too, and get to have a lot more dialogue in exchange (and a lot more of world building, through that). On the contrary, I found the soundtrack of Yakuza 0 quite disappointing, leagues below Shenmue both in quantity and quality. The music is serviceable, but except from some select tracks (in the karaoke, mostly), none of it is memorable.

Finally, one positive thing that Shenmue could learn from Yakuza is that the minigames are generally well developed mechanically, and quite fun. Although some like Shogi or Mahjong feel a bit too complex for being a mini-game.

Overall, I really liked Yakuza 0 and I'm glad to know the series first hand now. I liked it enough to play some other game in the series, although I really doubt I get to complete the full set of seven. I will probably play Kiwami since I've learned it's much shorter than 0 and is the direct continuation. And then I'll probably skip to 6 and see the end of Kiryu's journey (and get a taste of the Dragon Engine). If I like Kiwami a lot maybe I'll add Kiwami 2, but I really doubt I'll play 3 to 5 (specially this last one, which I understand is really long).
 
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