Random Shenmue III Thoughts

reminisce said:
If you think Shenmue is a flop or failure, you are entitled to your opinion, but please respect the fans...
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I would say respect the facts. According to available data known by "everyone" Shenmue sold enough to make back the investment, event tho was the most expensive videogame at the time, and sold on a console with only 7 to 8 million units in its install base at the time of the release.
In my opinion Shenmue was very successful when you consider all that.
If the game was sold on the PS2 the story would be very very different.
We would perhaps be talking about one of the most successful games ever at his time.
 
danielmann861 said:
I know Shenmue fans have been the butt of the joke for years on end to journos and such, but honestly, comes a time where you got to rise above it.
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I rose above it years ago. Outside of this forum I don't defend Shenmue. I'm not the type of fan that comments on articles and videos, attempting to protect Shenmue at all costs. Honestly, the thought of that exhausts me, and it's mostly a waste of energy.

On here though, sometimes I feel like engaging in these conversations if I disagree with something. That's what these forums are for. Doing so doesn't make me "touchy" or unable to get over something -- this is literally the only place (and perhaps the only time) I've ever talked about this specific topic. I could ask the exact same thing of you: Why do you let "touchy" Shenmue fans bother you? Honestly, just rise above it. See, it's a pointless line of questioning.
 
orient said:
I rose above it years ago. Outside of this forum I don't defend Shenmue. I'm not the type of fan that comments on articles and videos, attempting to protect Shenmue at all costs. Honestly, the thought of that exhausts me, and it's mostly a waste of energy.

On here though, sometimes I feel like engaging in these conversations if I disagree with something. That's what these forums are for. Doing so doesn't make me "touchy" or unable to get over something -- this is literally the only place (and perhaps the only time) I've ever talked about this specific topic. I could ask the exact same thing of you: Why do you let "touchy" Shenmue fans bother you? Honestly, just rise above it. See, it's a pointless line of questioning.
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I got to say I want to do the same.
I normaly try to defend shenmue, specially when people just ignore facts and speak out of their ass.
But I honestly have no patience for that anymore. Many poeple are just stupid thats all.
 
I had a more detailed reply written, but in the time it took to do some chores and make some breakfast, a lid is (rightly) being put on this conversation in case it spirals out of control.

Don't worry about any of it too much @danielmann861, some of us are just exercising a sense of catharsis in that at a Shenmue fan forum we can openly say "I think Shenmue does X thing better than Yakuza".
 
I'm more bitter @Sega than RGG(+Studio) since managements def got spooked & made quick judgements without seeing the big picture while thinking things thoroughly...subverting their trump card of pioneering+chance to be an almost exclusive publisher & trailblazer of the open-world genre during its infancy.

The idea Yu admits in an interview...was to build an investment(The long game) that return profits over time. The crutch was to not pull the support line so early right after Suzuki handed Sega their killer app.

What Yu had in mind as contingency:

-R&D to finish the F.R.E.E. engine with each installment in the Shenmue franchise as blueprints+Sega easily would of had a personal "Unreal Engine" for their own dev teams to experiment and/or licensed out to third party devs before UE becomes a thing and takes off with its versatility of genres support.(Did you think Shenmue featuring so many genres in one title was just only a story gimmick idea? Ofc not, the many genres represented serves a greater proof of concept marketing purpose of..."Look! This is what a small sample of other genre of games this engine can make if you're creative enough!" So darn next-level brilliance even Sega missed the money printing plot!)

-Assets that can easily be re-used in later installments cutting production costs while raking in the sales. Some assets could easily go on to be later featured/refined in future VF related installments too had the franchised finished on a high note and them being sister IPs.

-Other household IP's can benefit from new possibilities with this vision. Even the head of Team Andromeda in a PDS interview I once came across admits he wanted to remake Panzer Dragoon Saga in an open-world environment since he did felt his OG world was too limiting due to tech at the time if he ever gets the chance to revisit PDS again.

-Once everything wraps up Yu takes AM2 back into the arcade wares and work on achieving new trends of play(and hope to developed software+hardware tech that can realize his goal of using brain-waves to play games). Leaving his mark on console hardware and the rest of the Sega "Visionaries" to pick up where he left off by growing the library with unique games.

All Sega needed to do was "Believe" in Yu. Suzuki would've been hailed as Sega's hero. (Akin to Miyamoto and Nintendo during the VG crash of the 80's)

Instead, they're now a former shadow of themselves. All because they didn't see the endgame and let go of the faith they once had in the man.

This is why I hope so hard S3 re-invigorates Sega to take chances again alongside ofc, seeing the completion of a cultural work of art.
 
i dont want to be that guy, but its always easy to say that decision XYZ back in the day would have been a better choice.
thats not how life works.

we are talking about businesses that are investing millions of dollars. a couple of wrong decisions and the company is finished.
if you have hundreds or thousands of employees, business partners who count on you, deals with other brands,
a company that has to survive with normal logics and business plans,
would you just spend like 50 million dollars four times because you trust someone or because there is a big vision?

i mean there are people who would and will do that, but you cant be angry at people or companies who wouldnt do that.
its not a easy right or wrong decision.

its the same discussion when people are saying something like "just delay the game one more year
until its 100% finished, easy." thats not how this works. you cant just randomly put some millions in there and in there
and oh wait they need another twenty million, oh and they need fifty more people in their team.
you will never release anything and your company will burn to the ground in a couple of months.
 
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Tosh said:
i dont want to be that guy, but its always easy to say that decision XYZ back in the day would have been a better choice.
thats not how life works.

we are talking about businesses that are investing millions of dollars. a couple of wrong decisions and the company is finished.
if you have hundreds or thousands of employees, business partners who count on you, deals with other brands,
a company that has to survive with normal logics and business plans,
would you just spend like 50 million dollars four times because you trust someone or because there is a big vision?

i mean there are people who would and will do that, but you cant be angry at people or companies who wouldnt do that.
its not a easy right or wrong decision.

its the same discussion when people are saying something like "just delay the game one more year
until its 100% finished, easy." thats not how this works.
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Hence, why to a certain degree I understand them being caught up in the moment & don't go around kicking Sega at every opportunity like some other Sega fans/haters are doing & instead just be constructive whenever I can voice my opinion on the matter. :cautious:

Yu is designing S3 to be marketable in China(One of the strictest gaming regulated country with a huge market share) while catering to new and old fans. The man is fulfilling his vision and solving publishing/development problems trying to make a return on his game for those are willing to take a chance on him at the same time. The spirit of challenge to deliver is so prevalent in Yu's track record I was taken aback when Sega put him to pasture and gave up hope in finishing an ambitious project for their own sake.:hmm:
 
orient said:
On here though, sometimes I feel like engaging in these conversations if I disagree with something. That's what these forums are for. Doing so doesn't make me "touchy" or unable to get over something -- this is literally the only place (and perhaps the only time) I've ever talked about this specific topic. I could ask the exact same thing of you: Why do you let "touchy" Shenmue fans bother you? Honestly, just rise above it. See, it's a pointless line of questioning.
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It was a generalization of (some) types of fans I have encountered. I'm sorry if it makes me sound like an asshole, but sometimes, some fans and their reactions just make me embarrassed to even be apart of a fandom. It's not just the Shenmue fandom either. I have a real love hate relationship with all fandoms and some of the types you meet within.

I'm not necessarily saying that about anyone here and I am aware that not all fans are like this, but yeah, it's just my own love hate relationship with fandoms. And I've seen plenty of touchy Shenmue fans else where that do make me wonder "why do they let it eat at them? They literally got the last laugh in the end."

But you are right, why do I let those types eat at me in return? The vicious cycle that goes round and round.

But whatever man. I'm not angry about any of this so no harm intended, none felt. There was no intention on my behalf to be disrespectful to anyone. It was just a conversation.
 
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Spaghetti said:
Don't worry about any of it too much @danielmann861, some of us are just exercising a sense of catharsis in that at a Shenmue fan forum we can openly say "I think Shenmue does X thing better than Yakuza".
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Oh look, I do get it. I've seen so many people elsewhere compare the two and I do think it's a pointless comparison as both games are different from one another. And I get why people get tired of hearing that comparison. But what I don't get in this instance is how people took that angle from the fantasy post I wrote that was designed to make fans of both games laugh at the absurdity of a cross over?

Again, it's no big deal and probably best to just move on from said discussion. Which I will rightly do.
 
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Yakuza and Shenmue could not be compared. This would be unfair. Shenmue just had 2 games while Yakuza is long running Franchise. It was not that sucessful at all. Especially not in the west. Before 0 which was a Breaking point not many western fans cared About Yakuza. It only became more famous after 0.

And for a game on a niche console Shenmue was quite sucessful. So it cannot really be called a flop. The only drawback of Shenmue was that it come out at the wrong time. Shenmue happend at the same as the downfall of the old Sega. Sega had no answer to the superior Marketing power of Sony, so the Dreamcast was viewed that positive by People compared to the upcoming PS2.
 
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