The negativity surrounding Shenmue3

Spaghetti said:
The perception discussion is flawed on a lot of levels, but even then I haven't seen this supposed blanket negative reaction to the game. Anecdotally I've seen plenty of support and interest in Shenmue III just skimming about comments sections, and a fair few seem to be coming to the series for the first time as well. I didn't expect universal fawning over it even in a best case scenario, and even in calmer seas it's a crap shoot trying to take the temperature of such a fickle and reactionary bunch like gamers, let alone with the turbulence we're experiencing now.

RDR2 was anticipated as a revolutionary Game of the Generation-tier behemoth, but most of the post-release discussion about it was dominated by what it did "wrong". I saw NeoGAF flip on Breath of the Wild pre-release, positive to negative to positive again. How many times have we seen armchair analysts predict a failure or a success and been proven wrong, how many "controversies" are forgotten once they're out of the news cycle long enough?

I don't think there's any merit in trying to portray this situation as one sided, when even in a very hostile environment to Shenmue III positive comments break through.

People being more likely to comment if they have something negative to say is a long researched phenomenon online, let alone why we tend to focus on the negative more attentively than the positive (I can't be the only one who has gone to buy something online with great reviews... then sit around just reading the negative ones), but it's not properly representative of what people are really thinking.

This is by no means scientific but please take the Twitter post for the latest Kickstarter update, which is swimming in negative comments from around 15-18 individuals. No idea if any appreciable number are actually backers and fans, or are just on a hate bandwagon; but that's not strictly relevant. Looks pretty bad if you just read the comments... but then you take a look at the likes on the post, which outnumber the angry individuals in the comments by around 4 or 5 to 1. I've observed this before on the Shenmue 3 Facebook page too over some other blowup that I don't specifically remember, so it's not an isolated case.

People will lash out if they're angry, but it's genuinely not as bad as you may think.
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Please don't ever leave us.
 
Personally I don't care much about the negativity. It won't affect the current game development which it's basically done and if sales turns out bad because of it, everyone will probably just blame Epic store for it. The cost for Shenmue 4, with all the assets and mechanics already developed in 3, will be cheap enough that even Sega might help develop the game this time around given the apparent great sales of the HD games. And looking back at that Kickstarter backlash where Sony could just produce the game on its own but chose to test the waters with crowdfunding, these complaints about pre-orders are small potato to me.
 
Spaghetti said:
The perception discussion is flawed on a lot of levels, but even then I haven't seen this supposed blanket negative reaction to the game. Anecdotally I've seen plenty of support and interest in Shenmue III just skimming about comments sections, and a fair few seem to be coming to the series for the first time as well. I didn't expect universal fawning over it even in a best case scenario, and even in calmer seas it's a crap shoot trying to take the temperature of such a fickle and reactionary bunch like gamers, let alone with the turbulence we're experiencing now.

RDR2 was anticipated as a revolutionary Game of the Generation-tier behemoth, but most of the post-release discussion about it was dominated by what it did "wrong". I saw NeoGAF flip on Breath of the Wild pre-release, positive to negative to positive again. How many times have we seen armchair analysts predict a failure or a success and been proven wrong, how many "controversies" are forgotten once they're out of the news cycle long enough?

I don't think there's any merit in trying to portray this situation as one sided, when even in a very hostile environment to Shenmue III positive comments break through.

People being more likely to comment if they have something negative to say is a long researched phenomenon online, let alone why we tend to focus on the negative more attentively than the positive (I can't be the only one who has gone to buy something online with great reviews... then sit around just reading the negative ones), but it's not properly representative of what people are really thinking.

This is by no means scientific but please take the Twitter post for the latest Kickstarter update, which is swimming in negative comments from around 15-18 individuals. No idea if any appreciable number are actually backers and fans, or are just on a hate bandwagon; but that's not strictly relevant. Looks pretty bad if you just read the comments... but then you take a look at the likes on the post, which outnumber the angry individuals in the comments by around 4 or 5 to 1. I've observed this before on the Shenmue 3 Facebook page too over some other blowup that I don't specifically remember, so it's not an isolated case.

People will lash out if they're angry, but it's genuinely not as bad as you may think
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I disagree. Comparing Shenmue III to RDR makes no sense to me. RDR is developed by Rockstar. RDR2 sold almost a billion in revenue in less than a week. None of the people complaining points to the games success or failure. That’s like pointing out that people criticize Marvel films, but that doesn’t stop Marvel movies from making a billion at the box office.

Shenmue III by comparison, is niche.

Shenmue will always be niche because it’s not even remotely trying to be mainstream. It’s about an auteur’s vision and has many gameplay elements that fly in the face of how many perceive games should be.

This is why Shenmue is always divisive. There’s little room for just “liking” Shenmue.

With that already stacked against it, it’s currently involved in a big controversy and backlash with masses of people that funded the game demanding refunds.

That’s not good. This is the type of product that can not afford fuck ups and they’re currently fucking it up.

So not only is Shenmue niche, but it’s also had public perception turn against it before its even came out. This is why your RDR and Zelda arguments don’t work: Rockstar at this point could put out anything it’d probably sell a billion dollars in a month. Zelda is Zelda. The post-release “backlash” if there is any, is irrelevant to the fact the games sold well.

Most here are saying the negativity won’t harm the game. I disagree heavily. I think most are trying to be positive but let’s face the following facts:

  • Shenmue is niche and has limited appeal, therefore you must advertise it and cater to as many who might find it appealing as possible.
  • the marketing for III is beyond poor, even with Deep Silver behind it.
  • the game, which was originally publicly funded, is currently mired in a controversy that many people describe as ripping backers off.
With these elements combined you only have Shenmue diehards (which is the Kickstarter numbers at best) supporting the game. You can say,”well it’s for Shenmue fans and that means it’s pure” but at the end of the day we need new fans.

Shenmue HD collection didn’t light up the sales charts either. Meanwhile, yakuza games, which used to be niche, have been selling well even with remakes.

Shenmue III currently is NOT in a good position.

Maybe it’ll do well but there’s much stacked against it.

Short of another company (epic?) funding IV, I doubt we will be getting that game and I’m fully preparing myself for that happening.

It’s time for the rest of you to start considering the same possibility. This is not negativity, but stone cold realism.

All we can do from now is hope for the best.

But comparing Shenmue to RDR and Zelda isn’t it. Shenmue needed a Kickstarter to get off the ground after a decade of begging. RDR2 has made 1 billion dollars. Don’t compare them. Doing so smacks of delusion.

TLDR: every Shenmue fan should buy 4-5 copies of Shenmue III minimum. I’ve done my job. Got two extra copies pre-ordered and waiting to pre order the Limited Run Collectors Edition.
 
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johnjohnbrem said:
Fucking hell, this forum is getting unbearable with all this whining... In a couple of months you will be playing the game, chill the fuck out. Wanna worry about something? Google Syria.
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What an unhelpful response. More than that, I don’t think anyone here is whining. We are having adult conversation among friends. I thought we were all being respectful and just voicing our opinions. No one said it was a real life concern nor inferred it.
 
Space Lion said:
What an unhelpful response. More than that, I don’t think anyone here is whining. We are having adult conversation among friends. I thought we were all being respectful and just voicing our opinions. No one said it was a real life concern nor inferred it.
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Allow me to roll my eyes and point to your previous, tedious long post on everything that is wrong with SIII. Get off your high horse.
 
Space Lion said:
What an unhelpful response. More than that, I don’t think anyone here is whining. We are having adult conversation among friends. I thought we were all being respectful and just voicing our opinions. No one said it was a real life concern nor inferred it.
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One reads 'Cigarettes to warm the throat, alcohol to cool it' and expects you not to whine like that, as if Yu is personally trying to mess with you with his decisions regarding S3. No wonder Spaghetti and the old crew don't stick around anymore, all we do is go back and forth... Epic, KS, graphics, Ryo's jacket colour, etc etc.
 
Again, I find it really hard to believe that all people that’ll buy and enjoy this game are glued to their monitors reading every morsel of information there is to read and analyzing every negative in real time. Hell, I still run into people who are unaware Shenmue 3 is even being made. This whole controversy is seriously limited to a very small group of people. I guarantee you half the people you see complaining on Destructoid, Resetera, etc. never had any intention of playing this game. I’ve known a couple of people from the R site for many, many years and I’ve anytime I’ve seen them in a Shenmue thread it’s to criticize the series. Some people just enjoy bashing things.

Deep breaths.

I think we’re getting something special. I have faith they based these difficult decisions on what’s best for the game.

This will all be old news, unless you’re holding out for Steam (good luck holding off when you’re envious over people playing Shenmue 3), by November...
 
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mjqjazzbar said:
I guarantee you half the people you see complaining on Destructoid, Resetera, etc. never had any intention of playing this game. I’ve known a couple of people from the R site for many, many years and I’ve anytime I’ve seen them in a Shenmue thread it’s to criticize the series. Some people just enjoy bashing things.
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This, so much this.
 
of course there are a lot of people complaining who were never interested in buying or backing Shenmue 3.
i mean for example just look at the Youtube videos / comments, article comments
and threads on other forums about this KS pre order thing.
it seems like Shenmue 3 had about 2-3 million backers.
but we know that the campaign only had 69.000 backers. weird right? where did all the other people come from?

and the same thing goes for that Epic deal. if we count all the Youtube videos / comments, article comments
and threads on other forums together,
it seems like there were millions of people interested in Shenmue 3 on PC
and again we know that this number can not be realistic. a lot of people just dont like Epic in general.
thats why they clicked that stuff.

people who subbed to Quartering, Yongyea or all these other people, are subs because
they want to see exactly this type of content. if they have 1 mil clicks together on a Shenmue 3 video,
please dont believe that those 1 mil people were all Shenmue fans.
 
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Araviel said:
Allow me to roll my eyes and point to your previous, tedious long post on everything that is wrong with SIII. Get off your high horse.
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Length has nothing to do with whining nor disrespect. Your comment is so disingenuous as it is stupid. I was responding to Spaghetti, who also had a long post. But I guess he's also whining. Given you're from Norway, I expected greater intelligence on your part. This is a discussion board. Funny. The one who comes across as a whiner is you because you cannot take any opposing viewpoint without insult.

johnjohnbrem said:
as if Yu is personally trying to mess with you with his decisions regarding S3
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???

I see you are perfectly incapable of having a discussion like an adult.

I never criticized Yu at all. In fact, I never even brought him up.

That's it. I'm done. I was respectful and tried to make a case in a mature manner. The only opinions that are given respect here are ones that are positive 100% of the time. Even rightful concern for the games success is considered "whining" in a thread titled "the negativity surrounding Shenmue III."

See you all at game release. I have better things to do than interact with a community that does nothing but insult others with opposing viewpoints, even those that are apparently staff like @Araviel

Fuck this. I'm done.

wjE6HO6.gif
 
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Space Lion said:
Length has nothing to do with whining nor disrespect. Your comment is so disingenuous as it is stupid. I was responding to Spaghetti, who also had a long post. But I guess he's also whining. Given you're from Norway, I expected greater intelligence on your part. This is a discussion board. Funny. The one who comes across as a whiner is you because you cannot take any opposing viewpoint without insult.



???

I see you are perfectly incapable of having a discussion like an adult.

I never criticized Yu at all. In fact, I never even brought him up.

That's it. I'm done. I was respectful and tried to make a case in a mature manner. The only opinions that are given respect here are ones that are positive 100% of the time. Even rightful concern for the games success is considered "whining" in a thread titled "the negativity surrounding Shenmue III."

See you all at game release. I have better things to do than interact with a community that does nothing but insult others with opposing viewpoints, even those that are apparently staff like @Araviel

Fuck this. I'm done.

wjE6HO6.gif
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I find it funny that you acuse me of being incapable of talking like an adult yet you are the one who says things like "you from norway? You should be smart".


 
Even more bizarre than people caring too much about how the average person sees Shenmue are people here treating Resetera as a normal forum that everyone posts in. Never fails to crack me up.

Guys, this is not only a niche game with limited appeal, this is also a sequel to a game made more than 15 years ago. There's nothing much we can do but wait. The only people capable of making this a "success" (in the mainstream games market sense) is Yu and everyone involved in publishing Shenmue 3. In my opinion their marketing missed the mark and even lost the opportunity to correct past mistakes from the S1/2 marketing, but that's besides the point. The point is that we should fucking WAIT to see how people will actually react on launch. Who knows, a word of mouth miracle could happen considering how many people plays non action focused games nowadays like visual novels and such. If it "fails" in the eyes of the average Joe at least we still have a Shenmue 3 that is genuine to its roots and Yu's vision. Certainly much more than what we had 10 years ago.

johnjohnbrem said:
Fucking hell, this forum is getting unbearable with all this whining... In a couple of months you will be playing the game, chill the fuck out. Wanna worry about something? Google Syria.
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Stop writing messages on a message board guys, kids in Africa are starving and could have been eating that Shen 3 discussion.
 
Shenmue said:
Even more bizarre than people caring too much about how the average person sees Shenmue are people here treating Resetera as a normal forum that everyone posts in. Never fails to crack me up.

Guys, this is not only a niche game with limited appeal, this is also a sequel to a game made more than 15 years ago. There's nothing much we can do but wait. The only people capable of making this a "success" (in the mainstream games market sense) is Yu and everyone involved in publishing Shenmue 3. In my opinion their marketing missed the mark and even lost the opportunity to correct past mistakes from the S1/2 marketing, but that's besides the point. The point is that we should fucking WAIT to see how people will actually react on launch. Who knows, a word of mouth miracle could happen considering how many people plays non action focused games nowadays like visual novels and such. If it "fails" in the eyes of the average Joe at least we still have a Shenmue 3 that is genuine to its roots and Yu's vision. Certainly much more than what we had 10 years ago.


Stop writing messages on a message board guys, kids in Africa are starving and could have been eating that Shen 3 discussion.
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I partially agree with your message here.
Does Shenmue III needs to look awesome to the average user ? Maybe not. The problem is there's a narrative being pushed by some publications that it'll be a rough game. Beyond that, yeah, I seen a lot of reactions from average persons. For some of them, it's bad. Because there's been a cumulation of bad PR.

We all know Shenmue III wont set the charts on fire nor will set critics on fire.
But there's a problem Dojo needs to understand: Shenmue III cant afford to be both a critical and commercial disaster. Remember that none of the parties involved own the IP. SEGA does. And SEGA may not like it. Other than SEGA, it's also about investors for a 4th game. Deep Silver didn't get on board for the fans you know. They got on board for a new audience. And if YsNet and Deep Silver let negativity foster around the game, it's not good. Not good at all.
 
Space Lion said:
The only opinions that are given respect here are ones that are positive 100% of the time.
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I think Space Lion has a point here. I've noticed at several occasions that not displaying a positive opinion towards the situation is met with a barrage of hostile posts.

I'm now almost scared to comment because I know I will be either insulted or made to look like my opinion is invalid and lesser than what some people think.

For all that is to be said about Resetera breeding a culture of entitled people disrespecting other opinions than what the average poster displays (which I agree with), I think this forum is starting to look very much the same, just with the opposite viewpoint.

And honestly the comment that sparked Space Lion's comment who was about googling Syria when we are talking about a freaking game... that this kind of post is liked by staff here is worrying.
 
if the game comes out good it will blow away the critics, i think that with the given budget you cannot do a triple A game but you can do a fairly decent one(i have played all the recent successfull kickstarter and with a budget similar to shenmue 3 they manage to do decent animation and a good visual in general) the thing that worries me the most is that with the given budget
ysnet have not achieved decent animations (apart from combat moves that i find really fluid), if this aspect will not get polished in these months i think this game will be destroyed
 
shibeouya said:
I think Space Lion has a point here. I've noticed at several occasions that not displaying a positive opinion towards the situation is met with a barrage of hostile posts.

I'm now almost scared to comment because I know I will be either insulted or made to look like my opinion is invalid and lesser than what some people think.

For all that is to be said about Resetera breeding a culture of entitled people disrespecting other opinions than what the average poster displays (which I agree with), I think this forum is starting to look very much the same, just with the opposite viewpoint.

And honestly the comment that sparked Space Lion's comment who was about googling Syria when we are talking about a freaking game... that this kind of post is liked by staff here is worrying.
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When someone posts a comment about paying attention to real world issues in light of what could be considered a more frivolous issue, the point is to create a sense of perspective, not to compare for example Shenmue 3 problems to problems in Syria.

And really, what's wrong with being positive about Shenmue 3 for a while? Release is coming soon, we should all get behind the game and not get caught up in squabbling over details.
 
I'm going to jump in here before things get well out of hand.

Firstly I lurk on Era and I've seen several members of this place banned for daring to have a positive outlook on the game. I've also seen several other outrage topics on there about other games that are purely laughable.

So onto here. This place is a Shenmue through and through forum. I do think you're going to get more positive than negative here. However I'll go on record and say over the Epic stuff we banned only 1 person and that wasnt for being negative, that was for something else entirely. Believe me some of the posting was borderline and we stepped in where required.

That said we dont want to harbour an environment where an opposing view is shouted down. This place has always welcomed discussion and will continue to do so. What people become frustrated by is when people try and pass their view as fact (and this has happened across the board), become selective with information to support their view or dont acknowledge another view and almost have a finger in ear mentality. It's a fine line I feel between quality posting and arguing, some of which I saw yesterday but was resolved between users.

As long as things are constructive then by all means carry on. Discuss away, expand upon your points and enjoy this place.
 
What I find frustrating from a personal view is the day 1 dlc isn't anything special and some people are losing their minds over it. The season pass I understand the issue but personally it doesn't bother me.

We need to wait for YSNET etc to confirm what's what rather than rushing off one one single muffled KS response. The PR has been crap lol.

Outside of the internet speaking to regular gamer friends of mine they just ask me about Shenmue. They tend to stay off of gaming sites because they get fed up on the rubbish that's posted across all sites.
 
GhostTrick said:
But there's a problem Dojo needs to understand: Shenmue III cant afford to be both a critical and commercial disaster. Remember that none of the parties involved own the IP. SEGA does. And SEGA may not like it. Other than SEGA, it's also about investors for a 4th game. Deep Silver didn't get on board for the fans you know. They got on board for a new audience. And if YsNet and Deep Silver let negativity foster around the game, it's not good. Not good at all.
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Everybody here knows that. Why do think people here are ordering multiple copies of the game? I can only speak for myself, but I have no doubt that it's in part due to fear. This Epic controversy shitshow has honestly rattled the Shenmue community in the eleventh hour. Now there are those that are afraid that if they don't support Shenmue III with everything they've got, we will never see a Shenmue IV. While others really are just hardcore collectors. Also I disagree that Deep Silver cares about a new audience, all they care about is making money. They don't care where that money comes from.
 
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