The negativity surrounding Shenmue3

[Van Joel Sandwich]

I follow Yong but even outside of Shenmue, he bitches way too much. It does have an impact on the much needed new fans we need for this game to be an success but even without hindsight, I feel the publishers should have done a much better job. More than a few cringe-worthy moments and character models were shown in trailers when they didn't have to be. Also, the whole Epic exclusive controversy could have been seen from a mile away and for them to not offer refunds only to bend over afterwards is very similar to what Microsoft done with the whole always-online thing which put me right off the Xbox.

This game was always, seemingly, going to have as many haters as lovers. Said it before and I said it again, this is why I wanted this game to be the last and just wrap everything up.

So you would prefer a rushed and highly compressed Shenmue 3 that finishes the story, when we all know that for the story to be properly told, there needs to be at least two or three more games, just because the game has haters?!
LOOOOOL
Imagine if we stoped to doing things because some people hate those things. There would be absolutly noting done in this world. lol

 

[Reprise]

Quite! The best trailer would be something like ... the first half a recap; Iwao is killed, Ryo in Dobuita, Ryo leaving and entering Hong Kong, learning from different masters, bit of Kowloon, meeting Shenhua. Then the second half all Shenmue 3; some story, some action, some lore, (some love?).

That's an amazing idea!

 

[Nathanial Essex]

So you would prefer a rushed and highly compressed Shenmue 3 that finishes the story, when we all know that for the story to be properly told, there needs to be at least two or three more games, just because the game has haters?!
LOOOOOL
Imagine if we stoped to doing things because some people hate those things. There would be absolutly noting done in this world. lol

Not because of game haters. Because I fear releasing a 3rd game of a series, 20 years after the second game was released, may not be a commercially viable move and a sequel will be cancelled.

 

[Van Joel Sandwich]

Not because of game haters. Because I fear releasing a 3rd game of a series, 20 years after the second game was released, may not be a commercially viable move and a sequel will be cancelled.

we all discussed that topic here many times.
Is really highly probable that shenmue 4 will happen even with modest sales. A lot of people pointed out also that a shenmue 4 would be substancialy cheaper due to te prior work made on shenmue 3 in terms of many things like assets, textures etc.
Shenmue 4 seems probable.
Shenmue 5? Thats to soon to talk about.
I feel that, if the saga would get stuck again, Suzuki would defintly let the strory be known in one form or another.

 

[GhostTrick]

Also keep in mind that if Shenmue III couldn't happen earlier, it's also because the game industry wasnt the same.

There were no widely available middleware such as Unity or Unreal Engine 4 (before someone tells me Unreal Engine 3, licensing fees were faaaar higher and the Japanese documentation was terrible).
SEGA back then wasnt too hot on lending their IPs (which they are more happy to do nowadays, as seen with Wonderboy, Streets of Rage or Shenmue).
Kickstarter wasn't a thing.

And as a lot of people already said, keep in mind that for a sequel, the time and cost would likely be far lower because most of the systems are already in place and a lot of assets are done.

Keep in mind that with Shenmue III, Yu Suzuki and his team were learning UE4. With IV, they would already know how it works and would already have done a lot of the work with the tools necessary to build a Shenmue game.

 

[Van Joel Sandwich]

Also keep in mind that if Shenmue III couldn't happen earlier, it's also because the game industry wasnt the same.

There were no widely available middleware such as Unity or Unreal Engine 4 (before someone tells me Unreal Engine 3, licensing fees were faaaar higher and the Japanese documentation was terrible).
SEGA back then wasnt too hot on lending their IPs (which they are more happy to do nowadays, as seen with Wonderboy, Streets of Rage or Shenmue).
Kickstarter wasn't a thing.

And as a lot of people already said, keep in mind that for a sequel, the time and cost would likely be far lower because most of the systems are already in place and a lot of assets are done.

Keep in mind that with Shenmue III, Yu Suzuki and his team were learning UE4. With IV, they would already know how it works and would already have done a lot of the work with the tools necessary to build a Shenmue game.

Don't forget to also keep in mind that you sometimes forget to keep in mind when you actually should be keeping in mind!

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

I really wish people would stop blaming Yu Suzuki for this whole mess. They are giving him way more power then he realistically has since Y’s Net is nothing more than a small development studio. He’s not in any position to strong arm Koch Media into anything. People forget that he came to their door for money, so what makes you think that he’s in any position to reverse any of the bad PR decisions that Deep Silver have made? Some might say that he’s guilty simply by association, however how was Yu supposed to know that this bad PR was going to happen to his game?

I guarantee you that if he did have the power to reverse this debacle he would. He’s always put the needs of the fans ahead of his own. Why do you think we even have a Shenmue 3? Why do you think he went in search of more money in the first place? Why do you think that most positive reviews claim “It feels like Shenmue?” Granted he could’ve done his research into the whole Metro Exodus controversy, but after having the door closed on him so many times from other publishers, its hard for me to blame him for taking the deal with Deep Silver. Even if it bit him in the ass in the long run.

Oh well, what’s done is done at this point.

 

[Guppy]

I doubt the best marketing in the world will save Shenmue 3 sales if the game itself turns out bland. I don't doubt Yu's ability given his proven outstanding resume but looking back at these Kickstarters that just copy/paste a classic game to modern consoles like Bloodstained, without anything new at all as if the game was just made in the 90's, I'm worried about that happening to Shenmue 3 because of budget and the sake of just pleasing the fan base. It might be enough for most fans as they will finally continue to follow Ryo's story but I'm really hoping to see Yu push for progressive mechanics and polish all he ideas he had from the previous two games, specially when he can't for the aesthetics side.
Instead of a single 70 men battle in the entire game, we could as example have an entire scenario of these battles with Ren at Ryo's side doing combination attacks and coursing through the entire town this time, not just a single fixed location or have Ryo having to guard Shenhua while fighting the mob. As throw moves apparently got removed, the team could supplement the fights with perfect block/parrying mechanics, perfect dodges a la Bayonetta which would slow down time for a second and allow Ryo to apply a special attack, and environmental attacks like having Ryo run back to a wall and use it to jump kick an enemy and so on. Just anything but rethread to stuff already done in a 90's hardware. Unfortunately I didn't see that in the E3 demo, but I'm still hopeful as Yu doesn't want to give away much about the game. We will see.
November can't come soon enough.

 

[Tosh]

i think the ratio of the discussions about the good and the bad isnt really fair.

back in 2017 or 2018 Shenmue 3 looked a lot different than it does now. we had interviews with Suzuki
where he said the the current budget is not enough to make a full Shenmue game like 1 & 2,
we had interviews where he said that he isnt sure if there will be daily routines for npc's,
he didnt know if there will be voices for every character, they only can include 50 npc's,
there is no budget for better graphics than in the first teaser - only small tweaks are possible ... and so on and so on.

and we were like yeah okay, at least we get something and it kind of looks okay now, it will be good enough with some tweaks.
in the end its a game for fans.
since then, everything got better. we know that they were able to include way more npc's,
Ryo, Shenhua and so on all were updated again and again,
we have stretch goals in the game that the KS campaign didnt reach,
we have story improvements, a bigger game than Shenmue 2, delays for more polishing,
we have a official CE for Shenmue 3 ...

we got way more content and improvements than we thought we would back in 2017 or 2018
and even Suzuki said that the final Shenmue 3 is now a real Shenmue experience
and not just some "we tried our best with no budget" product.

but now lets take a look at what the most discussed topics on the media worldwide are:
Sony Shenmue 3 deal is a scam, Shenmue 3's outrageous Epic deal,
Shenmue 3 backers betrayed - wont receive three ingame items.

where are all the big discussions and articles and Youtube videos about the positive things, the improvements,
the upgrades, the better final product?
thats just "nice to have", ... whatever
lets talk more about the negative things.

 

[Revan]

Is really highly probable that shenmue 4 will happen even with modest sales. A lot of people pointed out also that a shenmue 4 would be substancialy cheaper due to te prior work made on shenmue 3 in terms of many things like assets, textures etc.
Shenmue 4 seems probable.

Also, Cedric Biscay has said that even if Shenmue 3 sells terribly (unlikely given the strong preorders), there's still a 50% chance they could just pump out a 4th game with reused assets to presumably wrap things up.

 

[danielmann861]

I follow Yong but even outside of Shenmue, he bitches way too much.

He has an audience and he knows what that audience wants to see. That audience wants to be outraged about every perceived injustice handed to them by video game publishers. Some are valid (video game companies can be indeed full of shit at times), others (like this recent DLC stuff) feel to me like they're being exaggerated for clicks.

Either way, I will admit, I followed some of these outrage guys for a while and bought into the idea that they were "fighting for the people"....but after a while, I think I cottoned on to the fact that these guys are no different to the click bait hacks they claim to despise but can't stop talking about. They saw an audience that wasn't being pandered to and pandered to them...and it was smart of them to do so because that is an audience to be capitalized on...but after a while it started to grow tiring to me. It just felt like more manufactured outrage on top of (sometimes) manufactured outrage.

I don't hate Yongyea or any of these guys for doing this, but I do think they have an agenda and their agenda is simply their wallet. I don't think they're for the people at all...I think that's just a very convenient marketing tool for them to exploit.. To be fair, we all have an agenda. I know my agenda is that I want Shenmue III to do well so we can maybe get to Shenmue IV...I will admit that wholeheartedly.

Now regarding the DLC shit. My opinion is the same it has been ever since this latest controversy came to be.

This DLC stuff amuses the hell out of me. Let's look at it logistically. Let's say I backed the cheapest option. The $29 option that gave me access to a digital code to Shenmue III. Meanwhile people on PSN are being asked to pay $75 USD for that digital deluxe copy. Those who funded the cheapest option still got the game for like half the price.

Sure, physical people paid $60 but at that point there wasn't even a guarantee of a physical version coming to retail stores so you have to factor in manufacturing costs at that time and what it would have taken to deliver said physical version. That was partially the perk you paid for.

But you know, if you paid $29 for the game and got the bare minimum digital code then I really don't see the problem...you paid significantly less, you're still getting the same game as everyone else only you don't get a measly move scroll and a supposedly iconic Jacket (which I have no idea why it is iconic when Ryo is known for the brown tiger jacket that is already on his back). The post game content is iffy right now because we don't know what that post game content entails.

If it were something shady like the endgame chapter is DLC that has to be paid for then I would indeed understand the outrage and I would probably join in and say "hey, wait a second." That would be something to be outraged about if that were the case...I don't see that being the case though. I don't believe YSNET would be creeps to do such a thing. Which makes me wonder, how important is this post game content?

Or for that matter...what the hell does Shenmue post game content even look like? Considering Shenmue is so dependent on its story. For all we know, Ryo could be on his way to an entire new location at the end of III (entirely possible given the last two games)

Yeah, I don't get the belly moaning...Unlike the EGS situation (which at least I can see why people got pissed about even if I don't agree with them entirely), the DLC stuff feels like a nothing issue to me and feels just like another extension of the EGS rage.

If you look at it logistically, the cheapest backers got a hell of a deal. They got the game at significantly cheaper price right out of the gate.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Not to be a Negative Nozomi, but 50% isn’t exactly the most reassuring percentage... that’s as good as saying “maybe, maybe not.”

 

[shibeouya]

If you look at it logistically, the cheapest backers got a hell of a deal.

I don't think anyone denies that the $29 tier is a pretty good deal, and they should certainly not be entitled to a DLC at that price range. However, for higher tiers backers are already getting shafted with the "physical" version, and also are getting objectively less for their money. I think they should just throw in the DLC for those above a certain tier, like $100 for example or lower. And they should obviously give everyone regardless of the tier the pre-order bonuses. If they can do that I would honestly have no other issues and can go back to enjoying everything they show about the game.

 

[Guppy]

I don't think anyone denies that the $29 tier is a pretty good deal, and they should certainly not be entitled to a DLC at that price range. However, for higher tiers backers are already getting shafted with the "physical" version, and also are getting objectively less for their money. I think they should just throw in the DLC for those above a certain tier, like $100 for example or lower. And they should obviously give everyone regardless of the tier the pre-order bonuses. If they can do that I would honestly have no other issues and can go back to enjoying everything they show about the game.

I have no idea why you keep on the idea that backers got the shaft even though others and I already gave out solid argument that this is so definitely not the case, but you still choose to ignore them. Why would Deep Silver give out free mirrors or PS4 themes when it's likely an agreement they had with their respective retailers, which has nothing to do with the original Kickstarter agreement Ysnet had with their backers? If that's the logic, why stop there? I might as well demand Ysnet to reserve me a free Shenmue 4 copy as I'm pretty sure they will be using the same assets from 3 which I already helped out funding big time. Gotta cash in on my entitlement while the iron is hot, right?

 

[reminisce]

Not to be a Negative Nozomi, but 50% isn’t exactly the most reassuring percentage... that’s as good as saying “maybe, maybe not.”

Leave poor Nozomi alone, she’s not negative, she’s neglected ?

 

[shibeouya]

I have no idea why you keep on the idea that backers got the shaft even though others and I already gave out solid argument that this is so definitely not the case, but you still choose to ignore them.

What you gave are not arguments, it's an opinion. Just like what I am saying is my opinion. My opinion is not more "right" than yours, just a different viewpoint. It's not a question of entitlement like you seem to be saying, just of different opinions on the matter. I respect yours, but that doesn't change my position here.

 

[spud1897]

While I don't see the furore over the pre-order bonus business (a skin change and move scroll doesn't fuss me) please be respectful of each others opinions and be open around the discussion.

BTW opinions can change (going on record and saying I'm not asking people to) but changing opinions on either side of any discussion point is fine.

 

[9dragons]

Forget to post the link earlier, my id for a good Shenmue Trailer would be something like this


just Show the humble beginnings of the Franchise, then show how the current game looks. In the chase of Shenmue you Need a Story recap of 1 and 2 as well of course to People can tell what the series is about.

 

[Revan]

Not to be a Negative Nozomi, but 50% isn’t exactly the most reassuring percentage... that’s as good as saying “maybe, maybe not.”

True. Hopefully we're past this though as it appears to be doing well in preorders. I fully expect decent sales now.

 

[9dragons]

I am not sure. 50% sounds quite decent for Sequel of game that should not exist in the first place because the industry was not interest in making it.