Shenmue 3 is really amazing

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

The only thing of Shenmue 3 that I didn't really like was it's combat but Shenmue never had a good combat.

 

[Down by Law]

I'm surprised so many people didn't like 3's combat. It's rough around the edges but I always felt in control and I really enjoyed the sheer amount of moves to perform. Compared to the usual 'press x four times then triangle for a finisher' in similar games it feels far deeper and more satisfying to me.

 

[Yokosuka]

I'm surprised so many people didn't like 3's combat. It's rough around the edges but I always felt in control and I really enjoyed the sheer amount of moves to perform. Compared to the usual 'press x four times then triangle for a finisher' in similar games it feels far deeper and more satisfying to me.

I wouldn't say it's deep in any extent, the combat is way too one dimensional, but I liked it as well. The input lag didn't bother me that much, it reminds me Sleeping Dogs somehow.

Unlocking a mysterious move and stressing it in combat was more fascinating than it was in Shenmue 1&2 because of the unlimited training. And less frustrating as well since all moves can be tested. Shenmue 1&2 didn't allow you to stress the throw moves apart with Fuku-san. (Well there's no throw moves in Shenmue 3 but that's not my point)

I also appreciated the button chains were very logical depending the Ryo's movement. But people focusing on R1/R2 combo shortcut are likely to miss the satisfaction it leads overall. Introducing the Manual/Auto system was not a so good idea in my opinion.

 

[GhostTrick]

I'm surprised so many people didn't like 3's combat. It's rough around the edges but I always felt in control and I really enjoyed the sheer amount of moves to perform. Compared to the usual 'press x four times then triangle for a finisher' in similar games it feels far deeper and more satisfying to me.

But compared to Shenmue II, it's a steep downgrade. And not only because of the throws. Body reactions to hit, physics, inputs. It really feels... Clumsy. And the way input works for the combos is bad design.

 

[spud1897]

In your opinion

 

[GhostTrick]

In your opinion

Yeah, this one isn't a matter of opinion but facts.
- Throws are missing (it's a downgrade)
- Hit animations are simpler (it's a fact and a downgrade, compare the counter elbow assault in II and III, how the hit works and how the bodies react)
- Physics are simpler (There was environnemental physical reactions in II, like tables and chairs going shit when you hit them).

And yes, compared to the VF combo system, it is also a downgrade because the way input works, it introduce an input lag.

 

[spud1897]

Yeah, this one isn't a matter of opinion but facts.
- Throws are missing (it's a downgrade)
- Hit animations are simpler (it's a fact and a downgrade, compare the counter elbow assault in II and III, how the hit works and how the bodies react)
- Physics are simpler (There was environnemental physical reactions in II, like tables and chairs going shit when you hit them).

And yes, compared to the VF combo system, it is also a downgrade because the way input works, it introduce an input lag.

It doesn't automatically make it terrible.

That's your opinion on it, that's cool but it's not gospel

Also in the fight before the first fight with GE stuff falls off the shelves.

 

[GhostTrick]

It doesn't automatically make it terrible.

That's your opinion on it, that's cool but it's not gospel

Also in the fight before the first fight with GE stuff falls off the shelves.

But it does automatically makes it worse.
As for the input system... same here. It does make it worse. It is a bad design.

And yes, there are few occasionnal moments where shelves breaks... in the same pattern.

It's still a serviceable fighting system. But in no way it is better than I and II.

 

[LemonHaze]

Yeah, this one isn't a matter of opinion but facts.
- Throws are missing (it's a downgrade)
- Hit animations are simpler (it's a fact and a downgrade, compare the counter elbow assault in II and III, how the hit works and how the bodies react)
- Physics are simpler (There was environnemental physical reactions in II, like tables and chairs going shit when you hit them).

And yes, compared to the VF combo system, it is also a downgrade because the way input works, it introduce an input lag.

I get the feeling you don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry but the combat system isn't all that great on the original platforms in my eyes either, technically speaking, in fact I'd only say that Shenmue II has the better implementation between S1 and S2. As I've said to you before, repeatedly stating your opinion doesn't make it true and I seriously think you have trouble in accepting this reality.

The comments you make about the 'input system' are almost nonsensical, given that you don't know how they are implemented internally and also how the games are pretty similar, there are combo buttons you press in sequence to activate a combo.. this is true for all Shenmue games.

 

[LemonHaze]

But it does automatically makes it worse.

No, in your opinion it automatically makes it worse. Not for everyone else.

 

[WuyingRen]

It's still a serviceable fighting system. But in no way it is better than I and II.

It can be integrated into UE4 and Yu and his team have the rights to use it. In that regard, I’d say that the fighting engine in S3 is quite a bit better than the VF engine used in S1 and S2.

 

[GhostTrick]

I get the feeling you don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry but the combat system isn't all that great on the original platforms in my eyes either, technically speaking, in fact I'd only say that Shenmue II has the better implementation between S1 and S2. As I've said to you before, repeatedly stating your opinion doesn't make it true and I seriously think you have trouble in accepting this reality.

The comments you make about the 'input system' are almost nonsensical, given that you don't know how they are implemented internally and also how the games are pretty similar, there are combo buttons you press in sequence to activate a combo.. this is true for all Shenmue games.

No, in your opinion it automatically makes it worse. Not for everyone else.

Ah yes, no throws in the battle system for instance is a "matter of opinion whenever it makes it worse or not".

And no, they're not similar at all. Yes, there are combo buttons you press in sequence, but in Shenmue I and II, it was made in such a way to avoid that input lag in which the game is expecting another command to be input.

I definitely know what I'm talking about, and I get the feeling that, whenever some harsh truth is being said here, some people automatically needs to say "it's an opinion ! everything is an opinion !"
I'm literally backing all of that with actual concrete facts we can verify.

But since visuals are better than words:



Come on. Tell me after watching those videos it's a "matter of opinions and preferences". Because to claim that the way the moves are executed and how the bodies react in Shenmue II vs III here is a matter of "opinion and preferences" would need some serious denial here.

 

[spud1897]

My opinion is that the older system had more depth and throws. Was good fun but the camera sucks.

Shenmue III's system, while missing throws and being slightly basic is serviceable and fun

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

@GhostTrick I'm so sorry to be an asshat, but I find you BEYOND tiresome.

EDIT* Not everything has to be a super-happy circlejerk, but you're literally fighting EVERYONE's opinion and how it is factually wrong.

I detest Yakuza 2 to death and that IS objectively a poorly-written game, but I don't fight every single person who loves it and try to act all superior because my opinion is, "more factually-correct," than theirs. (though I am sure to comment on it every time someone brings it up lol)

I think you need to accept the fact that 'mue III isn't as bad as you seemingly want it to be and that people DO like it, flaws and all.

 

[Kyo_JP]

Any time random post is not talking trash about Shenmue III we have to read those preachers of the Apocalypse all the time

 

[GhostTrick]

@GhostTrick I'm so sorry to be an asshat, but I find you BEYOND tiresome.

EDIT* Not everything has to be a super-happy circlejerk, but you're literally fighting EVERYONE's opinion and how it is factually wrong.

I detest Yakuza 2 to death and that IS objectively a poorly-written game, but I don't fight every single person who loves it and try to act all superior because my opinion is, "more factually-correct," than theirs. (though I am sure to comment on it every time someone brings it up lol)

I think you need to accept the fact that 'mue III isn't as bad as you seemingly want it to be and that people DO like it, flaws and all.

I replied to someone saying "I'm surprised so many people didn't like Shenmue III's combat system". I didn't bring that out of nowhere. But let me guess, if I were to say everywhere "Shenmue III's the best thing known to mankind and the battle system is the pinnacle of fighting games", you'd have no issue with that. Where am I saying Shenmue III is bad ?

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Literally nitpicking the shit out of, "3 random lights that weren't there before," in a CUTSCENE, makes it, "out of place," and, "jarring," (I know, you didn't use that word, but the implication was more than apt. Fucking hate that word...).

Like, really? REALLY?

Furthermore, just mentioning that you did not take issue with the fighting system, does not wash away the literally half-dozen other nitpicks you've mentioned here.

Again, not that you're an asshole/loser/prick/etc. (nothing to do with your character), but this is growing beyond tiresome.

I find that when people argue technical aspects and coding/assets/etc. with people in the industry, who show a clear understanding and grasp of the concepts at hand (ala @LemonHaze, for example), it's like a layman trying to prove THROUGH THEIR OPINION, the validity of the Space Program, to a 20-year NASA Astronaut, with 2 PHDs and extensive training.

Come on, man.

 

[WuyingRen]

Where am I saying Shenmue III is bad ?

In pretty much every post you make on these forums.

It does make it worse. It is a bad design.

I still feel like that season pass has been rather pathetic

Was it impossible to make a Shenmue game with a great story and character cast with crowdfunding ? Hell no.

it's a steep downgrade.

it feels like a bad ripoff

for non-fans, I dont see any value in playing Shenmue III

I could call that creativity bankrupt considering how badly designed it is.

Clearly, Shenmue III is doing something wrong.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Hence, my, "tiresome," comment.

 

[LemonHaze]

Ah yes, no throws in the battle system for instance is a "matter of opinion whenever it makes it worse or not".

And no, they're not similar at all. Yes, there are combo buttons you press in sequence, but in Shenmue I and II, it was made in such a way to avoid that input lag in which the game is expecting another command to be input.

I definitely know what I'm talking about, and I get the feeling that, whenever some harsh truth is being said here, some people automatically needs to say "it's an opinion ! everything is an opinion !"
I'm literally backing all of that with actual concrete facts we can verify.

But since visuals are better than words:



Come on. Tell me after watching those videos it's a "matter of opinions and preferences". Because to claim that the way the moves are executed and how the bodies react in Shenmue II vs III here is a matter of "opinion and preferences" would need some serious denial here.

You literally have issue with accepting that your opinions are solely just that: opinions, not factual. Liking something is 100% subjective, there are no limits or prerequisites to liking something, therefore it can not reliably be determined.

You can't claim your opinion is factual when the 'concrete evidence' you provide are all up to individual preference. Please stop, you're making a fool of yourself.

that input lag in which the game is expecting another command to be input.

So.. Shenmue III is a bit unoptimized, does this mean it is inherently bad? No. It is still your opinion that it is bad. Otherwise, if it is factual, then can you please explain how some people might like this combat system, or hell, even prefer it?

Yes. It is all about opinion, preference and subjectivity.