Yu Suzuki Interview (IGN Japan): Reflections on S3, Plans for S4

Yeah, I don't think Niaowu was a "new" concept created just for fan-service. The 6th chapter card looks a lot like Niaowu, with Niao-sun on the right of Ryo and her lackey, the big thug from Bailu, on the left. It would've had a different name, but I think it was always meant to be part of the adventure.
 
Yokosuka said:
We heard Payton urging Yu to adopt a classic formula very early in the development, possibly before Yu designed anything so it still sounds odd that we got footage from Niaowu so late. Maybe he got fuming when he spotted Yu still working on it? It's a valuable theory nonetheless.

I'm less convinced about the Shenmue II recycled cut content theory. A lot of cut contents were already known (Tiger Building, the boat chapter, beta footage of temples and village that Ryo was supposed to visit before reaching Bailu). Is this idea related with the fact that Yu wanted to finish Shenmue 2 inside the cave to keep fans' interest alive, meaning much more was supposed to come initially?

I rather think that Baisha was destined to belong to Shenmue 3 since the very beginning, unlike Niaowu which sounds an artificial place came from nowhere for fan service purpose. But the 2015 artwork tends to contradict my thought!

According the 11-chapter concept art, Ryo was supposed to visit Shanghai and Suzhou after Hong Kong, and Suzhou is a semi-aquatic place a bit like Niaowu so maybe it's recycling. Notice that the first Niaowu/Choubu artwork features Chinese big doors sticked in water, implying the aquatic aspect was initially more important gameplay/storywise.
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Crap, THIS is what I mean when talking about Adam Koralik; I got my names mixed up.

Ryan Paton is the guy I'm talking about!!!!! Gah!!!!!!!

All along, HE was the guy that I was saying, was getting in YS's ear too much and possibly ruining things.
 
I remember that plans for Shenmue 3 changed the moment they received additionl funding from Deep Silver, and the game became a real Shenmue game, like Yu said.

But in the end even with additional fundings, it was not enough to make everything, especially since Baisha was meant to have new gameplay elements like the character perspective system (that probably meant 3 different story scenarios, since they had to develop three differents paths in Baisha for playing as Ryo, Ren or Shenhua), the siege game reminiscent of the Warring Kingdoms etc.

That's unfortunate, but I hope we will find Baisha and all its elements in Shenmue 4, and that this will be the starting point of the game of the cliff temple.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Crap, THIS is what I mean when talking about Adam Koralik; I got my names mixed up.

Ryan Paton is the guy I'm talking about!!!!! Gah!!!!!!!

All along, HE was the guy that I was saying, was getting in YS's ear too much and possibly ruining things.
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Eric Layton Bergen, the lead programmer, used to work for Ryan Payton. I doubt there's much we can do to get Ryan out of Yu Suzuki's ear at this point.
 
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We have no idea what Ryan Payton said ruined things or not. What we do know is he was involved in Shemmue III and the sort of hearsay around what may or may not have been said, barring interviews which we know he did, isn't really useful.
 
He's also the reason we got Shenmue III as far as I can tell. He gets credit for the Kickstarter suggestion.
 
Indeed. I haven't followed the thread super closely, but came in here at the very end, and we're assuming random people "ruined" the game, with nothing to go off of? That's laughable. Like @spud1897 said, we know nothing that hasn't been officially documented.
 
jcjimher said:
In some way, this reminds me of the situation just after Shenmue I. We had been teased a lot about Shenhua and the story events in Hong Kong, Kowloon and Guilin, but they were "axed" from the first game (probably because of mismanagement too, as those Nagoshi stories tell). I personally had much less internet access back then (so I was less informed), and at the same time there was no doubt a sequel was in the works with those missing elements. But it's not that different from now from that perspective, and I hope it turns out the same this time.
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That's actually an interesting way of thinking about it and it does remind me of when the first game came out I had no idea Hong Kong had been axed. I didn't use the internet much back then, but I had been following previews of Shenmue for years. It had always been described as a story about 'a young man who witnesses his father's murder and travels to Hong Kong to seek revenge'. They also showed loads of screenshots of Hong Kong and Guilin. So when I finally played Shenmue 1 I felt really confused and almost cheated that the game ends right as he's going to Hong Kong. I still loved the hell out of it though and gave them a pass knowing a sequel was probably coming.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
All along, HE was the guy that I was saying, was getting in YS's ear too much and possibly ruining things.
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Yeah I was shocked to hear the Ryan Peyton screamed at Yu Suzuki. He was likely responsible for all the fan-service in S3. In fact I do believe in an interview he kept telling Suzuki to just make the game for the fans.
 
Granted I know absolutely nothing about this situation but unless Ryan Payton or Adam Koralik is secretly Grima Wormtongue, then they're not responsible for anything in S3. Can anyone link me to the interview/hypnosis?
 
All I know is Ryan Payton convinced Yu Suzuki to start working on Shenmue III because he showed Yu Suzuki how KICKSTARTER helped his own game, Camoflauj's Republique. He also must've referred one of his programmers to YS, because Eric Bergen, who worked on Republique, is the lead programmer on Shenmue 3. Perhaps there is an interview where he says he thinks the game should include some nods to fans, but I don't think YS is the kind of developer that gets his hand forced by outsiders.
 
SMDzero said:
Yeah I was shocked to hear the Ryan Peyton screamed at Yu Suzuki. He was likely responsible for all the fan-service in S3. In fact I do believe in an interview he kept telling Suzuki to just make the game for the fans.
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Man that's ridiculously hyperbolic. Screaming... come on.
 
24Nathan said:
Indeed. I haven't followed the thread super closely, but came in here at the very end, and we're assuming random people "ruined" the game, with nothing to go off of? That's laughable. Like @spud1897 said, we know nothing that hasn't been officially documented.
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If you quote the full sentence, Truck101 only said it was a possibility though.

Tbh with you, the fact about Payton did really disappoint me when I heard it in 2015. But playing the game made me think he was eventually right.
Since everybody seems to agree that Shenmue III's main quality is its faithfulness to the old Shenmue games, I would imagine some backlash if Shenmue 3 was the "70% new, 30% old" game Yu initially envisioned.

I can't find the source about the 70-30 new-old thing but officially, we got a "50%-50%" old-new Shenmue 3." In 2017 - i.e. before Deep Silver came in -, the game was "70%-30% old and new".

So it's a possibility that the 50-50 Shenmue 3 was in fact the game Yu initially targeted before Payton made his suggestion.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
All I know is Ryan Payton convinced Yu Suzuki to start working on Shenmue III because he showed Yu Suzuki how KICKSTARTER helped his own game, Camoflauj's Republique. He also must've referred one of his programmers to YS, because Eric Bergen, who worked on Republique, is the lead programmer on Shenmue 3. Perhaps there is an interview where he says he thinks the game should include some nods to fans, but I don't think YS is the kind of developer that gets his hand forced by outsiders.
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Yu hasn't been "forced" but rather convinced. I believe "compromise" was the used term. The source is likely a 2015 podcast where Payton got interviewed.
 
Yokosuka said:
If you quote the full sentence, Truck101 only said it was a possibility though.

Tbh with you, the fact about Payton did really disappoint me when I heard it in 2015. But playing the game made me think he was eventually right.
Since everybody seems to agree that Shenmue III's main quality is its faithfulness to the old Shenmue games, I would imagine some backlash if Shenmue 3 was the "70% new, 30% old" game Yu initially envisioned.

I can't find the source about the 70-30 new-old thing but officially, we got a "50%-50%" old-new Shenmue 3." In 2017 - i.e. before Deep Silver came in -, the game was "70%-30% old and new".

So it's a possibility that the 50-50 Shenmue 3 was in fact the game Yu initially targeted before Payton made his suggestion.
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I'm trying to find that interview. It was around Gamescom 2017 they did that and where that quote came from.

Beyond that, these accusations of people screaming at Yu Suzuki, saying they ruined the game is baseless and likely so far wide of the mark they're on a different forum!

Seriously where has this hyperbolic shit come from?
 
Correct; I'll go back to my other posts:

Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Again, not bashing the guy, but this seemed to be (IIRC, correct me if wrong) all what EDIT** Ryan Paton wanted and I still can't help but think that he either got in Suzuki's head a bit too much or became one of said, "loud voices."

Then again, if everyone remembers the KS poll results, everybody voted for forklifts and Lucky Hit, while darts was completely unwanted.

Not to divide casual and hardcore, but I personally think that simply the WRONG group of fans were made to be heard the loudest... which is what many of us have already pointed out.
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Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Oh, I know he DEFINITELY isn't (he's the, "leader," of the superfans lol), but for some reason, I remember him being one of the biggest supporters of all the extra crud that many of us on here lamented; again, please correct me if I'm wrong, as it isn't my intention to besmirch anyone.

FTR (and I've stated this in many places, including my reviews), I absolutely don't mind all the extra crud; I partook in it immensely, like I always had in the first two games as well, but I knew well and good when I was grinding out the move scroll trophy, that this would turn off a ton of people and it was just... too much.

Things weren't balanced as they could've/should've been and while not a bad thing for some (me), it was a bad thing for many (see this thread).

As Pete Townshend penned, "Too much of anything, is too much for me. Too much of everything, gets too much for me." ;)
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So yes, I am absolutely NOT raking anyone over the coals or anything else; this was a just a ponderance I had and have wondered if it had any weight to it.

I also do not wish to parrot or add to the hearsay, that, "Paton screamed at Suzuki;" absolutely not what I was going for lol.
 
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Episode 74: Sega Dreamcast and Shenmue 1-3 w/ Ryan Payton – Back in my Play

backinmyplay.com

Shenmue III info starts around 35 minutes. Not to beat a dead horse but reducing that interview to "he shouts at Yu Suzuki and is probably responsible for all the fan-service" is absolutely atrocious hyperbole.

From the interview (and it's worth listening to the entire thing to hear what Shenmue truly means to Ryan) it's clear everything Ryan did for Shenmue III, he did for the love of the series.

He has no reason to lie about this stuff. He's simply telling it as it is, and by his account, Yu had fallen out-of-touch with the modern video game industry in 2014 -- and very likely fan expectations, as well -- so it doesn't surprise me that while trying to plan a Kickstarter campaign that would break records, they would have heated arguments about what fans want and what will get people excited to support the project. When he says they argued over what fans want, somehow I don't think he was talking about forklifts and Lucky Hit :rolleyes: He was clearly worried that whatever Yu Suzuki wanted to pitch originally was not what people want or would expect from a Shenmue revival.

Payton literally says in the interview, "...[a revolutionary new type of game] is not what fans want. They want to see the story continue".

Payton describes Suzuki as a retired boxer who needed the encouragement to get back in the ring. If Payton didn't give him that initial hope and encouragement Shenmue III might never have happened. And if you still think he could be the type of person who'd put a spin on this stuff to make himself look good, he also speaks openly about being demoted at Microsoft and how embarrassing it was, so yeah, he's an honest guy.

Some interesting tidbits I forgot about: Suzuki always saw I & II as a single story, and everything beyond another story. Due to the way things panned out, not much work at all was done on content post-Shenmue II. So basically that infamous Kikizo article was a load of 🧻.
 
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