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Virtua Bros put it more succinctly than I have previously . I second the sentiment.
A Case For Why Shenmue III Minigames Were Not " Fan Service"
- Thread starter Godokunodan
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Sure, but I do believe they put too many of the same mini games into too many sectors. The wow factor disappeared by the time I got to Niaowu. I get they couldn't come up with 20+ gambling games, but it's a bummer that even the casino in the 'big city' has the same games as in Bailu. It's definitely a convenient way to encourage you to earn money, but I found it all a bit much.
Good video, but I disagree that the game encourages you to explore everything.
If Shenmue was like that then it should have never had the bad ending for players that waste their time doing side activities instead of progressing the story.
When I read that Shenmue games have bad endings it made me less interested in wasting my time exploring and playing mini games.
On the otherhand we have games like 3D GTA games that you can just play the game without progressing the story and without the fear of getting the bad ending.
If Shenmue was like that then it should have never had the bad ending for players that waste their time doing side activities instead of progressing the story.
When I read that Shenmue games have bad endings it made me less interested in wasting my time exploring and playing mini games.
On the otherhand we have games like 3D GTA games that you can just play the game without progressing the story and without the fear of getting the bad ending.
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You need to waste like 100+ real hours to get the bad ending. It's really not that big of a deal. No one would realistically trigger it unintentionally.
But then again that whole concept of "bad ending" makes new players less interested in doing side activities.
Edit: also limiting the gameplay time to 100 hours isn't good for an open world game. Maybe some players desire to spend more time on the game in their first playthrough.
Edit: also limiting the gameplay time to 100 hours isn't good for an open world game. Maybe some players desire to spend more time on the game in their first playthrough.
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OP
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Bad ending isn't a deterrent to exploring everything in Shenmue III, because it has new game plus. Hence all the content can be explored infinitely .
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I don't see how this video proves your assertion when it mainly focused on the first game. How does Excite QTE in Shenmue III prepare you for the broken QTE's in-game? How does having an arcade in Bailu make any narrative sense considering what Shenhua told us in Shenmue II? Even Suzuki admits that he only added forklifts in Shenmue III for the fans.
In any case, I think the term "fanservice" is seen as a pejorative nowadays which is a shame. There's nothing wrong with giving fans what they want. The problem is when the work focuses too much on that aspect over everything else. The difference between Shenmue: Chapter One Yokosuka and Shenmue III is that everything is cohesive.
In any case, I think the term "fanservice" is seen as a pejorative nowadays which is a shame. There's nothing wrong with giving fans what they want. The problem is when the work focuses too much on that aspect over everything else. The difference between Shenmue: Chapter One Yokosuka and Shenmue III is that everything is cohesive.
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That whole idea that mini games should prepare you for different sections isn't also true.
Mini games in video games exist to add gameplay variety to the game if the player has been bored by the main gameplay.
Also, Shenmue 2's lucky hit and space harrier don't prepare you for anything in that game.
The game always puts you in the stress when you waste your time.(The game even gives you some warnings that the time is running out)
It's an idea that has been copied from Prince Of Persia 1 game on Dos. Which isn't a very good idea.
Mini games in video games exist to add gameplay variety to the game if the player has been bored by the main gameplay.
Also, Shenmue 2's lucky hit and space harrier don't prepare you for anything in that game.
But with this difference that you have a limited time to do all of that before getting the bad ending and being forced to replay the game from the very beginning.
The game always puts you in the stress when you waste your time.(The game even gives you some warnings that the time is running out)
It's an idea that has been copied from Prince Of Persia 1 game on Dos. Which isn't a very good idea.
If the story in Shenmue was that important then the no game in the franchise would have allowed Ryo to play any mini game at all.(Since a person that is on his quest for vengeance never wastes his time playing video games or collecting stupid toys)
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It’s a great video and it’s a shame it isn’t getting more views or generating further discussion but I think your title misrepresents the actual core content of his video. The main focus is on the small details of the original games, particularly Chapter 1 and how the slower pace and nature of gameplay encourages organic discovery.
I’ve been a long proponent of the idea that without a lot of mundanity of the first game the epic rush of 70 man battle or scaling the Yellowhead building wouldn’t be quite the same without that build up.
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Very good video so far; I haven't finished it yet. It makes some great points about the deliberate nature of the exploration and how it's smartly introduced to the player. Not sure I'd go as far to defend the originals' FREE controls, though.
They made sense for the time, and certainly aren't as bad as some people make them out to be. I like them, but I've also been playing Shenmue for 18 years. The controls may be tailored for visual exploration but they aren't particularly intuitive and they lack finesse. The setup in Shenmue III is almost universally better from a modern perspective (as you'd expect).
Will watch the rest later. Videos that aim to disprove criticism walk a fine line, because if you don't recognise the truth behind fair criticism you run the risk of sounding like a blind fanboy, no matter how well-made your points are. The Yakuza comparisons really get my goat, though, and deserve to be ripped apart
They made sense for the time, and certainly aren't as bad as some people make them out to be. I like them, but I've also been playing Shenmue for 18 years. The controls may be tailored for visual exploration but they aren't particularly intuitive and they lack finesse. The setup in Shenmue III is almost universally better from a modern perspective (as you'd expect).
Will watch the rest later. Videos that aim to disprove criticism walk a fine line, because if you don't recognise the truth behind fair criticism you run the risk of sounding like a blind fanboy, no matter how well-made your points are. The Yakuza comparisons really get my goat, though, and deserve to be ripped apart
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This guy Virtua Bros articulates very well why minigames are essential to the game. They are the core of the genre of Shenmue as a game. They can't and should not be ripped out or truncated in Shenmue III merely to placate impatient youths who merely want to blast through the story mode and advance plot points. This has got to be the best Pro-Shenmue and by extension Pro Shenmue III video I have ever seen.
It's a slam dunk that he also got Corey Marshal and several prominent Shenmue fan YouTubers to add perspective to the Shenmue experience. If Shenmue III and continuing forward Shenmue IV don't continue the tradition of collecting capsule toys and forklift driving and the like, there would be no point in making sequels going forward. It simply would not be Shenmue without them. There are plenty of generic Assassin Creed games in the industry. The world needs more F.R.E.E.s. The counter point of trimming the "second life aspect" of the Free open world merely to advance the story more is by my contention and this videos, simply a point being made by certain parties who are merely impatient and truly not into the Free genre at all. Some say altering the formula for the game would make it more modern: I say no, it would just make it more generic and conventional. The ideas for generic adventure games all existed in 1999. Yu Suzuki balked at them because he was trying to make something better.
It's a great bonus that Anadil Albalushi was one of the talking heads in the video: she composed a remix of the Shenmue combat theme for my last Shenmue Combat video. A pleasant surprise.
It's a slam dunk that he also got Corey Marshal and several prominent Shenmue fan YouTubers to add perspective to the Shenmue experience. If Shenmue III and continuing forward Shenmue IV don't continue the tradition of collecting capsule toys and forklift driving and the like, there would be no point in making sequels going forward. It simply would not be Shenmue without them. There are plenty of generic Assassin Creed games in the industry. The world needs more F.R.E.E.s. The counter point of trimming the "second life aspect" of the Free open world merely to advance the story more is by my contention and this videos, simply a point being made by certain parties who are merely impatient and truly not into the Free genre at all. Some say altering the formula for the game would make it more modern: I say no, it would just make it more generic and conventional. The ideas for generic adventure games all existed in 1999. Yu Suzuki balked at them because he was trying to make something better.
It's a great bonus that Anadil Albalushi was one of the talking heads in the video: she composed a remix of the Shenmue combat theme for my last Shenmue Combat video. A pleasant surprise.
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Except the majority of Shenmue fans are not saying that we need to get rid of the minigames. It's just that I don't need to play Smart Ball for the fiftieth time at the next generic store. In the first two games, we had centralized hubs where you could play the majority of them. Players were then rewarded with different minigames if they explored the game's world.
Like I stated in a previous post about Bailu, you could have minigames that are meaningful and enhance the experience. Why not have the minigames in Bailu be centered around helping out the village in a way that makes sense? It would be consistent with the first two games logic. Shenmue had always put more thought into its gameplay, which is why I am so critical of Shenmue III's game design.
Finally, while I agree with most of Segalicious's points, there's one element he's overlooked and that's evolution. There's a reason why most Shenmue fans consider Shenmue II to be the pinnacle of the franchise. The game conceded to more conventional game design while maintaining the Shenmue feel.
Shenmue III continues this evolution by updating the controls, camera movements, simplifying the move list, New Game Plus, and adding in difficulty settings. All this was done to appeal to more contemporary sensibilities. For the coup de grace, Suzuki stated in an IGN Japan interview that he wants to make Shenmue IV accessible to a larger audience.
Like I stated in a previous post about Bailu, you could have minigames that are meaningful and enhance the experience. Why not have the minigames in Bailu be centered around helping out the village in a way that makes sense? It would be consistent with the first two games logic. Shenmue had always put more thought into its gameplay, which is why I am so critical of Shenmue III's game design.
Finally, while I agree with most of Segalicious's points, there's one element he's overlooked and that's evolution. There's a reason why most Shenmue fans consider Shenmue II to be the pinnacle of the franchise. The game conceded to more conventional game design while maintaining the Shenmue feel.
Shenmue III continues this evolution by updating the controls, camera movements, simplifying the move list, New Game Plus, and adding in difficulty settings. All this was done to appeal to more contemporary sensibilities. For the coup de grace, Suzuki stated in an IGN Japan interview that he wants to make Shenmue IV accessible to a larger audience.
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There was narrative reason for the inclusion of forklifts in chapter 1 but I want to dissuade those that think it was or should continue to be a part of Shenmue moving forward. Suzuki said as much in there inclusion in Shenmue 3, essentially fans requested it so much so he felt compelled to included it but unless there’s a strong narrative reason (which I doubt as Ryo ventures to more rural parts of China) then I would assume that’s last we will see of that.
The forklift was fine and some of the arcades are great if put in isolation but there should have been none in Bailu. Bailu should have only had 3 or 4 old school gambling tables like roll it on top and no more. Keep it realistic. Then onto the city there should have been 3 hubs max for playing games.
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How any of those things makes the story less important dumbfounds me. The story is still there no matter what you decide to do and is there to be tackled in your own time. You progress the story, Ryo doesn't. If you want to go find your fathers killer, go for it. If you want to kill time collecting capsule toys, go for it. Want to pet a kitten all day long? Yup, go for it.
The game allowed you freedom on an unprecedented level back when it was released. You could literally move at your own pace. The fact is, the choice was YOURS. This is what Shenmue was/is all about.
Back at the turn of the century, this was huge. Shenmue 3 literally just carries on this trait like the time inbetween instalments didn't happen. Which personally I find endearing.
You're taking away from Shenmue what made it so unique.
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I was not saying that "Shenmue should remove the mini-games and capsule toys." I was saying that "Story of Shenmue isn't as important for the games as fans want to believe."
Shenmue is more about open-world gameplay than its story. (And yet fans have got the franchise wrong and think that story is the most important aspect of Shenmue.)
Just because background characters that you interact with for 1 minute have a detailed background story doesn't make Shenmue's story "masterpiece".
The story of Shenmue has too much filler subplots to be considered good. (It's like having a Star Wars movie where the whole movie takes place on Tatooine and ends with Luke leaving that place at the end of the movie via millennium falcon. If Star Wars episode 4 was like that then the franchise would have died with that movie.)
I'm 100 percent sure that in the end all of those Shenmue story lovers will hate the ending of the story for being too simple and they will obviously say that "It wasn't worth waiting 30 years to get it."
At very least every GTA game finishes every character's storyline in 1 game rather than forcing the fans to wait 30 years to get an ending for it.
I do not agree on them being the core. I do not play Shenmue as a minigame hub, if I wanted that I would be playing warioware.
They are important when they add to the experience to make the city/town more authentic or believable and add extra time killers to the game, which in my opinion Shenmue3 does it worse than the others.
For example the 2 gambling spots in Bailu are just sad, no one is there, they feel off with the rural setting and quite artificial. In contrast take the fishing minigame which is completely on point with the setting and reinforces the image of Bailu as a rural isolated area. So I agree with other people that Bailu minigames should have been related to help in the farming or directly playing with the kids in the area as a "get to know the town folk" or some minigame sbout helping in the temple
And lets not talk about Niaowu as city design since that one feels quite artificial.
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Herb collecting and fishing felt very at-home in Bailu, as did chopping wood. Basic gambling games also seemed fitting to me, and I appreciated the effort they put into creating mechanical games for the arcade.
But the fact is, it was a conscious decision by Yu not to focus on realism above all else, and it shows. It feels more "gamey" due to various factors -- not just the abundance of mini-games -- and that was intentional. But it's hard for me to say if there was a right or wrong decision, ultimately, because I tend to agree that more "realistic" mini-games doesn't automatically mean "better" mini-games. Working in a field could've been boring as heck, who knows. After all, there have been boring, realistic mini-games in Shenmue in the past *cough* carrying crates *cough*