A Year Of Reflection

I really enjoyed Shenmue III. I even enjoyed the ending, feeling just about exactly how @danielmann861 described it earlier in this thread. I enjoyed what it SET UP more than what it SHOWED.

However, unlike Shenmue I and especially Shenmue II, I do not feel any urge to re-play it or go for 100% trophies. I don't know why, but that urge, that itch to play and see more isn't there. I really thought it'd be a game I kept replaying until my fingers fell off but that never happened.

It is lacking that little something extra that makes me wanna go back, and the fighting system is no good.

I rated the game 8.5 a year ago, and today I still want to rate it around 8. Game is good and worthy of the Shenmue name. It's just lacking that little something I can't put my finger on.
 
I almost see it this way: Shenmue II ends in the battle with Don Niu, and Shenmue III begins after.

I'm a big fan of Shenmue III, but I see it this way better, it looks like that has more story, that is the weak point of SIII. Besides if I'm not wrong, 4GD of SIII was already a different episode than the others.
 
Definitely had cuts on the story, but the foundations of having all the side activity like pawnshops and minigames where most work goes into already done bodes extremely well for Shenmue 2 level of story for the rest of the series. IN the grand scope, I'd prefer Shenmue 3 was slower story when already was suppose to be an intrinsic, inward journey anyway.
 
Shenhua-Nani? said:
I’m a fan mostly because I wanted to see where the story went, and how Ryo would continue to grow, and S3 finally made me come to terms with the fact that Yu didn’t have the whole story planned for all these years, but just kind of made it on the spot, if you know what I mean.
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That's not really a fact.
Yu has had the whole story planned for well over 20 years.
The script for 3 just wasn't written until the budget was secured, so was probably written in haste.
 
We know Yu Suzuki has Ryo's story arc planned out. Ryan Payton confirmed this. The scripting isn't done until the game has the green light.

It's the other characters stories that are planned as dev goes on, so the subplots/stories.
 
xatruio said:
Not necessarily what the letter meant; natural instinct was they'd be looking for him and the connection with Chi You. Doesn't make sense for Shenhua to just give up and accept the loss of her father. Well, looks like my destiny says I'm with Ryo now, let's be mindless and forget about the man who raised me in an instant!
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Nobody expected an entire game dedicated to searching for her father. Stop blaming players for nothing happening.
 
Thomasina said:
Nobody expected an entire game dedicated to searching for her father. Stop blaming players for nothing happening.
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Didn't blame anyone--thanks for making things up, though. Zhu Yuanda's search was near the entirety of Shenmue 2, but oh no--wait--it is sacrilege to criticize the second game, right? Actually, I'm not even criticizing Shenmue 2, but the amount of times you were so close to finding him only to be delayed further was admittedly annoying on first play way back. Obviously was worthwhile in the end, but doesn't change the fact what happened.
 
xatruio said:
Didn't blame anyone--thanks for making things up, though. Zhu Yuanda's search was near the entirety of Shenmue 2, but oh no--wait--it is sacrilege to criticize the second game, right? Actually, I'm not even criticizing Shenmue 2, but the amount of times you were so close to finding him only to be delayed further was admittedly annoying on first play way back. Obviously was worthwhile in the end, but doesn't change the fact what happened.
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I think the main difference here is that when you find Yuanda Zhu, he gives information that enhances the plot and makes the player feel rewarded. Finding Yuanda Zhou also leads you to Guilin where a ton of extra backstory and lore is added to the series.

In Shenmue 3 you spend a whole game looking for Yuan only for him to tell you information you already know. They don’t even go in depth as to Yuan’s knowledge about the prophecy, how he knew Ryo was headed to Guilin or what he knows about the mysteries behind Shenhua‘s character and at the end, it seems Yuan isn’t going with Ryo, Ren and Shenhua for the remainder of their journey so these things might never be fully elaborated on. It just feels unrewarding and empty which is what I think separates Shenmue 2 and Shenmue 3
 
Real1 said:
I rated the game 8.5 a year ago, and today I still want to rate it around 8. Game is good and worthy of the Shenmue name. It's just lacking that little something I can't put my finger on.
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It's lacking mystery, imo. The first 2 games are mysterious from beginning to end. There's no mystery in Shenmue 3, or at least any that is intriguing.

I started another playthrough of Shenmue 1 again 2 days ago and that mystery is still present for me. It pulls me through the game.
 
Certainly, there were budget cuts to the story, never said was quite as satisfying, only the story beat was done once, so acting like Shenmue 3 was some travesty reeks of melodrama. Personally, meeting the acquaintances of Iwao in Bailu and Master Bai was good enough for me, I'm much more intrigued by following Iwao's footsteps than finding Lan Di and seeking vengeance.

iirc there was some small bits of info Yuan gave which I found interesting, although not as much a revelation. Also, part of the cuts was Baisha, so his information wasn't suppose to be as final as the game ended.
 
xatruio said:
Didn't blame anyone--thanks for making things up, though. Zhu Yuanda's search was near the entirety of Shenmue 2, but oh no--wait--it is sacrilege to criticize the second game, right? Actually, I'm not even criticizing Shenmue 2, but the amount of times you were so close to finding him only to be delayed further was admittedly annoying on first play way back. Obviously was worthwhile in the end, but doesn't change the fact what happened.
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Except it's not just about the search. It's the character building and relationship building with Wong, Joy and Ren. To say S2 is just about searching for Zhu is dismissing the hundred other thrilling and exciting events that fill the game. All of which is absent in S3.

There's so many exciting and mysterious things in S2 that it would be an injustice to try to list things off the top of my head because I'd miss half of the great events but I will anyways because to even remember them is a lot of fun.

Exploring the mysterious buildings, going up to the roof to talk to the bird owners, the plank section, the handcuffed scenes, catching leaves, punching the tree with the old man in the park, the blind martial artist in the dark room.... There's so much in S2 I don't even know why you'd imply it's anything remotely similar story-wise to S3.
 
Lol I should have known that a thread titled "A Year of Reflection" would just turn into a S3 bashing topic once again :ROFLMAO:😅
 
spud1897 said:
I reflect that I enjoyed Shenmue III despite its flaws :)
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Exactly, id be lying if I said it wasn’t a slight disappointment story-wise but what they managed to achieve with the budget is outstanding. The gameplay itself is fine and a solid foundation for future games (hopefully!) Also Bailu and Niaowu are both stunning visually.
 
I actually have no desire to re-visit the game or Shenmue 1 and 2 any time soon. If 4 gets announced, I'll replay them all, but probably not until near release.

After Bailu's jarring overly-modernized feel and lack of lore/reveal that Yu promised would happen but didn't, Niaowu and the castle were an even bigger bust. Niaowu itself was pointless - its inclusion on the scroll made no sense, although the scroll itself didn't make any sense either. Expecting a "siege" game scenario that Yu described at the beginning of development and ending up with the castle that was like a shadow of the Yellowhead building was salt in the wound after trudging through hours of Niaowu's nothingness. Maybe because the story was just getting started, but the passage of time and non-urgency of the plot wasn't as hard to believe in the first two games, but at this point, it was really strange to me that the thugs in Bailu could just hang out for weeks on end with the apprentice as hostage and that the Chi You Men who were so desperately searching for the Phoenix Mirror could just hang onto Shenhua's dad for so long without making a move. It wasn't even apparent they questioned him yet. While I guess it might make some sense that the Chiyoumen have various bases in China, why were they holding Shenhua's father in Niaowu (and not say, their actual base in the cliff temple?) - was the point to lure Ryo and Shenhua and the mirror to them? If so, then why could they not have included a cut scene that explained that yes, the Chi You Men were aware that Ryo had the mirror in his possession and that Shenhua's dad was just bait?

Lan Di seemed shocked when Ren pulled out the decoy, so he apparently had no clue the mirror was in the vicinity - and if he had no clue, why the heck was he even in the castle in the first place? Just chilling? It was so strange that Niao Sun ominously said "Lan Di is waiting for you" and sent Ryo up to his doom if Lan Di was not aware Ryo had the mirror. The confrontation between Lan Di and Ryo felt like it only was included because Ys Net felt like they HAD to allow for a one-on-one after an 18 year gap in the games. It could have worked, if the storytelling was convincing - but it wasn't. Getting all the way to the castle before even meeting Niao Sun felt like a such a blow to me because she was advertised as one of the 4 main characters of the game back in the early days of the Kickstarter.

Concessions can be made of course - beautiful environments really exceeded my expectations and the gameplay was fun - to a point anyway - and I could even get past the limitations of the battle system - it was a Kickstarter game after all. But there's really no excuse as to why they couldn't have included 15 more minutes of plot/exposition to flesh out the barebones story. It could have made a huge difference.

I saw some criticisms earlier in the thread that Shenmue 2 was almost entirely a Zhu Yuanda chase - and I totally agree and found that frustrating at the time, that the entire game ended up being about finding him. And I even thought that the information he divulged was a little inadequate, all things considered. But the tension and buildup really, really worked and culminated in the epic rooftop battle, and then Disc 4 happened and just turned everything on its head in the best possible way (imo). So Shenmue 2's slow-moving story was forgivable. But we are 3 games in and have barely learned anything - this is a problem! I have little faith Shenmue 4 will happen, but also realize that the world is on a nostalgia/reboot kick across so many mediums. The pandemic may have up-ended things financially but it's also going to be easier to re-invest in an existing IP than create brand new ones. So, I haven't lost ALL faith. And I am still hopeful we'll see a conclusion. I'm excited for the anime. And I still love Shenmue, warts and all (Shenmue 3 being the wart!)
 
I haven't really spoken that much about the game since its release last year. Initially, whilst I really enjoyed it in the beginning, I started to get a bit frustrated by some of the mechanics and the slow pace of the game. I was enjoying the game, but there were two points in the game that really hit me hard and made Shenmue 3 a disappointment: The moment when I arrived in Niaowu and thought that was going to be the moment when the game really starts, and the moment when you're heading towards the castle and I realised that was it and the game never did get going.

I never thought Shemmue 3 was a bad game, I just thought it was disappointing. It had flaws, more so than the originals, but did retain some of the magic. The writing and pacing was the weakest in the series.

The more time that went by, the more frustrated I became by the game. I was annoyed that so much time was wasted on Niaowu, that Baisha was cut, more effort wasn't put into the combat and a lot of resources seemingly went into mini games and making Niaowu huge just for the sake of it, and so on. I was glad Shenmue 3 existed, but I was just a bit annoyed... So I just stopped talking about Shenmue 3. I enjoyed the game, I was pleased it existed, I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it and I didn't have much to say.

Anyways, that brings me to the present day when that situation has changed. Last month I started a new game. It's the first time I have really played it since last year (other than bits of the DLC) and I found myself not just really enjoying it, but actually fully immersed in the world once again.

I can safely say, warts and all, despite its flaws, it is one of my favourite experiences this generation, at least the first half is. Part of what helps is I was going into it fully aware of the game's shortcomings and flaws, but also I am doing a new game+, so I don't have to grind so much for tokens and don't have to worry about training or sparring (much). That isn't to say I didn't appreciate those aspects the first time around, unlike some, I actually didn't mind it for the most part. But it does help streamline the experience so I can focus on the story, the world and concentrate on the aspects I want to, whilst being able to push through with the story without worrying about stamina or the need to train.

Bailu is beautiful, the gameplay is magic, the story is fine and I loved getting to know the various characters, spending time with Shenhua in the evening, and learning about the history of the mirrors and Iwao training with Sunming in the village. All of that is great. Chai's return is a bit of a let down, but would it be so bad if we hadn't already known he was returning? Part of me wonders what my reaction would be if the game had been released 15 or so years ago when it should had been and if I had avoided spoilers. I probably would have loved the game and geeked out when Chai returned! The writing and dialogue is a little sloppy (yes, Ryo should probably be a bit more shocked and surprised to see a villain he had fought in Japan in Bailu), but it's not dreadful.

Btw fishing is addictive as hell and herb hunting is genius. Those are great. All the gambling games and arcades don't do much for me though, especially in a rural setting that should makes the small village I grew up in look like a metropolis in comparison...

So anyways, I completed the first half a few days ago and really enjoyed the climatic end to the Bailu segment. I arrived in Niaowu, so perhaps I'll return to share my thoughts in a few weeks when I've wrapped up the whole game.
 
jasonorme666 said:
So it's been a year since release, and a year since I completed the game.

53 hours I spent with Shenmue 3, no fast travelling, taking everything in as slow as possible.
I remember telling my wife how much I was enjoying the game, and how it felt like Shenmue.

And then I suddenly wasn't and it didn't.

Progressing the story at a snail's pace, unfortunately, gave me the impression that this was a long game, mainly due to the lack of story progression, the lack of QTE's and the lack of combat. By the time I reached the old castle, it felt like the story was about to really progress and the action was going to ramp up in frequency.
There isn't really anything I can say about the old castle that hasn't already been said.. but my heart kept sinking and by the time the credits rolled I was upset and angry.
I didn't want it to, but it killed my excitement, at that very moment I didn't want a Shenmue 4 unless that whole part of Shenmue 3 was "fixed".

So a year of reflection.
I haven't touched the game again since as I haven't felt the need to. But having just received my Steam key it made me start thinking about the game again.

Turns out, I loved the game up until the old castle, I truly did. And just like Shenmue 1 & 2, I want to talk to people and explore those areas again.
But how the whole last part panned out, made me realise that I don't see Shenmue 3 as canon.
To me the interactions during the whole old castle were incorrect as if they were made by someone who didn't know the series and wasn't really a fan.
I thought to myself, do I want to play Shenmue 3 again, and the answer is yes, but only if that last part doesn't exist.

Shenmue World Kickstarter made me also start thinking if I cared anymore for the series. I did eventually back it, but before, like the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, I'd have slapped money down instantly no questions asked.

Would I be excited if Shenmue 4 was announced... sure.. but I'd be far more excited if a Shenmue 3 director cut was announced that addressed the issues I and others have with the game. Once Shenmue 3 felt like canon to me, I'd be extremely excited for Shenmue 4.
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The ending part of Shenmue III was.. well to me it was the worst part. Not really the Lan Di fight and all, it's the fact that the game ended before it really started. It's understandable why but it was an anti climax.
I had trained in the game and was ready for the 3rd, and last area, which I looked forward to. But it never happened.
That disappointed me. Baisha was the place I was most looking forward to.

I still want Shenmue IV, V, the Anime, and also Zero -an official prequel.
 
I’m not sure right now but i remember that in the ending Yuan told Ryo a few things that we didn’t know. He said that Lan Di was raised by the Chi You Men, he said other things but i can’t remember right now, i have to watch the scene again.

Someone correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t remember this information in Shenmue I and II.

In Bailu Village we had the interesting flashbacks about the mirrors, the training with master Sun and other things, the story of Shenmue III is not just the ending.

For me the Shenmue story is about a journey, Ryo’s journey, it is about the people he meet and what he learns from them during his journey, is about Ryo getting better as a martial artist and as a character, the story is not just about Ryo fighting Lan Di, it is much more than that in my opinion, for me this story will not end with Ryo killing Lan Di, in my opinion Ryo will forget about revenge.

For me Shenmue III is a peaceful time in Ryo’s journey specially in Bailu Village, a time to meet Shenhua more and talk with her and live with her, build a strong bond with her, even in Niaowu we have some conversations with Shenhua at night, we didn’t have options to choose like in Bailu but the conversations in Niaowu are there.

A time to train everyday, i love the last scene in Bailu Village where we see Ryo training at night.
ShenmueIII.png


All i know is that i love this peaceful time in Ryo’s journey specially in Bailu, and i love the new things in the game like collecting herbs, fishing and much more.

Yu Suzuki and the team had to create everything from scratch, and now they can use some things in Shenmue IV and save budget to other things, and they can improve what they already have. What they achieved was really beautiful, i’m not saying the game is perfect but the game have qualities in my opinion.

I think Shenmue IV will be a intense part in Ryo’s journey, Shenmue IV have the potential to be really intense because Ryo, Shenhua and Ren are getting closer to the Chi You Men. My opinion is similar to spud1897 opinion, i reflect that I enjoyed Shenmue III despite its flaws. I’m really looking forward to continue Ryo’s journey. 😊
 
blixt said:
I had trained in the game and was ready for the 3rd, and last area, which I looked forward to. But it never happened.
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Yeah, I spent so much time training expecting some big fights, but there wasn't really any pay off, unlike the first two games. A big deal was made about the new in depth training system, but ultimately, what is the point when there are only two major fights and both bosses are piss easy? I mean they were easy to the point where both times I was kicking their asses until the game would rudely interrupt me to inform me that actually I had just imagined that I was beating them and in fact they are way stronger than me (so thus have to go on a quest to learn a new move).

If they had added some tougher and more interesting fights, I feel it would have justified all the training and sparring opportunities. I guess the whole final act had to be rushed though, with Baisha being cut. So the original plans were probably a lot deeper.
 
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