Bloodstained reached 1 million copies

[Bambi]

The dreamcast ending was inevitable but the move to the Xbox was 100% the wrong move from a commercial perspective. However I'm sure I read somewhere that getting Shenmue to work on a PS2 was much more difficult than the Xbox.

I remember believing that a PS2 wouldn't be able to run Shenmue 2 properly, that somehow the DC was "better" on some level. Looking at the specs for both I don't see that being the case, must have come down to the coding or something idk.

I think the real mistake in porting was not including I and II together, it was already niche enough, you can't expect people to start a direct sequel of a story based game like that.

 

[WuyingRen]

I remember believing that a PS2 wouldn't be able to run Shenmue 2 properly, that somehow the DC was "better" on some level. Looking at the specs for both I don't see that being the case, must have come down to the coding or something idk.

I think the real mistake in porting was not including I and II together, it was already niche enough, you can't expect people to start a direct sequel of a story based game like that.

Couldn’t agree more. If they’d ported one and two to the PS2, the series would’ve been concluded already.

 

[Mittens2317]

Wtf ? Shenmue 2 had NO installed base on Xbox. 1 million People bought it on Dreamcast. Way to miss the point. ANY game on Xbox is potential competition for Shenmue2 , not everybody strictly compares games in categories. $60 is $60. Common sense tells you 50 million is greater than 10 million. The fact that history tells you Shenmue IIx was a colossal flop should make defending such a poor choice folly.

Shenmue II released a day before Vice City.

 

[Rydeen]

I remember believing that a PS2 wouldn't be able to run Shenmue 2 properly, that somehow the DC was "better" on some level. Looking at the specs for both I don't see that being the case, must have come down to the coding or something idk.

It kind of depends on how you look at it. The PS2's main advantages were ROM size (DVD vs GD-ROM), ~50% faster clock speeds on the processors, twice the RAM, and a more integrated design with the Emotion Engine system on a chip. As a result, it was able to flood the screen with more polygons and effects, but it also had half the video RAM that the Dreamcast did, so texture resolutions were often far worse on the PS2. Put another way, the Dreamcast was capable of some pretty high quality textures for the time. I'm sure Shenmue II could have run on the PS2, but they probably would have needed to downsample all/most of the textures.

There's actually a section of the NHK documentary for Shenmue, when Sony announced the PS2, and Suzuki is looking over the technical details. I don't remember exactly what he was looking at, but his conclusion from notes he was making was sort of a sense of relief that it was going to take a couple years for developers to actually take advantage of most of what Sony was promising. (Unsurprisingly, he was right.)

I think the real mistake in porting was not including I and II together, it was already niche enough, you can't expect people to start a direct sequel of a story based game like that.

I think, from a business perspective, they just thought that the fanbase would follow to the XBOX, and were less concerned about getting additional sales from the specific platform. That decision pissed me right the hell off, though. I didn't like Microsoft to begin with, and I essentially waved my middle finger at the XBOX once it was announced that Shenmue II would be exclusive to it in the US; I imported the EU Dreamcast version, and a year later I bought a PS2.

 

[Mittens2317]

That decision pissed me right the hell off, though. I didn't like Microsoft to begin with, and I essentially waved my middle finger at the XBOX once it was announced that Shenmue II would be exclusive to it in the US; I imported the EU Dreamcast version, and a year later I bought a PS2.

I was the opposite. Death of the Dreamcast marked the end of my console fanboyism. Ended up getting the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2, whoring myself out to the lot of em like the council estate slag I am.

 

[Rydeen]

I was the opposite. Death of the Dreamcast marked the end of my console fanboyism. Ended up getting the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2, whoring myself out to the lot of em like the council estate slag I am.

Oh, same. I wasn't pulling for Sony at all. I hated them, too, just less so. I picked up a Gamecube maybe a year after getting a PS2, but the XBOX brand was basically dead to me. It was a grudge I didn't bury until 2012, when I finally caved and picked up a JP 360 for all the Cave shooters I had to have.

 

[Mittens2317]

Oh, same. I wasn't pulling for Sony at all. I hated them, too, just less so. I picked up a Gamecube maybe a year after getting a PS2, but the XBOX brand was basically dead to me. It was a grudge I didn't bury until 2012, when I finally caved and picked up a JP 360 for all the Cave shooters I had to have.

I understand people preferring PlayStation over Xbox given the exclusives (not to mention Nintendo), but I can honestly say I've never enjoyed a digital service as much as the one MS provides.

It's a shame there was such a backlash over the Kinect thing for Xbox One too, as I woulda liked to have seen them implement it as they wanted to. The family share sounded a hell of a lot better than the Home Xbox compromise they came up with too. I look at things like Spotify, YouTube Premium, and Netflix, and can't help but think "maybe they were ahead of the game on this one."

 

[9dragons]

Couldn’t agree more. If they’d ported one and two to the PS2, the series would’ve been concluded already.

Maybe. But i s a conclusion in ugy ps2 graphics really a good thing? It would also be unplayable today because PS2 has the worst image quality of any 6th gen console.

And also somehow doubt that the ps2 kids back then would be ready for a game like Shenmue.

On the PC Shenmue would have had the best chance because the PC crowd was used to point and click adventures at that time. Shenmue has many things in common with that games minus the action segments.

And no I am not a Sony hater per se, I love the ps1 up to this day and i really enjoy ps3 and ps4. I just do nit like the ps2. The ps2 was overrated as hell in the first years and it killed classic gaming.

The ps2 opened the path for the Multimedia devices we have today. If that is good or bad is debatable.

 

[Suzaku]

I also think porting Shenmue to PS2 wasn't the solution to all the issues.
If Shenmue 2X struggled on Xbox, imagine on a oversaturated console like PS2...

In truth, Gamecube, PS2 and Xbox were all unsuitable for a game like Shenmue.
Shenmue is SEGA, its only home is on a Sega console, and that's the real issue...

 

[Sonoshee]

I think the real mistake in porting was not including I and II together, it was already niche enough, you can't expect people to start a direct sequel of a story based game like that.

They did include Shenmue: The Movie with Shenmue 2 though, which included story cutscenes of the first game. I think it was even released in select cinema's in Japan from what I understand. Which was... kind of a strange move lol

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Yeah , Bloodstained is the most bargain basement generic game genre out there. It cast such a wide net how could it not be a hit? A side scroller! By the casual gamer loved Castlevania guy? Not only that but Bloodstained is multiplatform, even on Switch. That's a layup. Shenmue III would gave sold 1 million units like Shenmue 1 did if Peter Moore didn't fuck up and discontinue the Dreamcast early. Then he pulled the dickhead move of selling Shenmue 2 US rights to God damn unproven amateur Xbox instead of industry Juggernaught PlayStation. Now here we are.

Was thinking of not replying, but I can't help myself. What's the use in dragging down another franchise to boost Shenmue? This type of post just makes feel kind of embarrassed to be a 'fan boy,' so to speak, of this franchise. Castlevania isn't some AAA Call of Duty-esque franchise. It's an old franchise many of us grew up with and I don't think that it's some guaranteed million-seller in 2020, especially since they had to go to Kickstarter to even get their funding. That's not really a sign of a sure million seller. 2D side scrollers also hardly AAA. I'd say a 3D open world game is much more of a sure deal these days. Shenmue 3 isn't a success or failure because of another franchise's success or failure. Best to not view everything as an obstacle to Shenmue's success.

I also doubt the Dreamcast surviving another year or two in the West would've made Shenmue II a million-seller. Did Shenmue 2 blow the socks off the sales charts in Japan and EU? I have never been convinced Shenmue 2 would've been a huge get for the PS2 either. Sega released quite a few games on the PS2 and none of them were bestsellers to the best of my recollection. You might recall Yakuza 1 coming out in the States and being a massive flop, even with talent like Mark Hamill doing VA. I'm not sure how Shenmue II would've ended up selling millions on the PS2 with its subpar English VA, when games like Vice City were already coming out like @Mittens2317 said. I think some of us need to accept Shenmue IS a niche game, even if the first game managed to sell a million units (worldwide. with a big marketing budget--Shenmue II would've never gotten that kind of marketing on the PS2).

IMO, they really blew the momentum they gained from the Shenmue III Kickstarter. I feel they had a huge chance at recapturing interest in the franchise, especially with the type of games that seem popular nowadays.

(I have not and do not intend to play Bloodstained; it doesn't really interest me. I just find this kind of post distasteful & ignorant)

 

[9dragons]

It is good thing that Shenmue is a niche game. That fact makes the game unique and it guarantees that every squeal (f we get one off course what is not set in stone) stays loyal to the source material.

Look at the main stream series out there that debuted at the same time as Shenmue. Most of them changed a lot. They were changed to fit the taste of the contemporary games. These gamers are very different compared to the gamers in the 90s. These people often they do not have the patience to appreciate Shenmue. A Main Stream compatible Shenmue would not be Shenmue anymore.

It is sad but we "old" folks that started playing in the 90s are even earlier are not the core audience of gaming companies. The teens and the guys in their 20s are. These people often have a different taste then the 90s gamers. They do not like Games like Shenmue.

Shenmue is special in that regard anyway. I wish it would be different but it was no smash hit in 2000 either. It is even the real deal in 2000. So even during a time were games like Shenmue could have had a chance it could not prevail. These days things have become more difficult.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Yeah, a lot of folks didn't 'get' Shenmue in 1999/2000 either. Shenmue I sold because it looked amazing, was marketed well, and a big first party title on a fairly new console. Shenmue II didn't really have those things going for it in 2001/2002. I'm not sure how it would've found a big audience on the PS2, where third parties were much more numerous and when games like GTA: Vice City were capturing people's attention. Airing books, being kind to your elders, and going on slow strolls to rural China weren't exactly in vogue back then.

 

[kaliskonig91]

Shenmue is not a stronger IP for one thing. Bloodstained is coming off the back of Castlevania. The highly praised Iga ones at that. Shenmue is coming off of ...Shenmue. And unfortunately its dated as hell by todays standards and failed to deliver. Shenmue 3 didnt even get the most important aspects right...Character and Story. If I'm being honest, I cant really call Shenmue 3 a GOOD game. I can say that about Bloodstained. Bloodstained felt like more than just a passion project. It felt like a proper entry to what it was trying to be. And even though the Switch port launched as a crappy insult, They y worked to make things right and were transparent along the way. Same cant be said for Shenmue3. They couldnt even get the kickstarter prizes out, let alone improve on the game.

If Im being real, there is no actual way that Shenmue can grow as an IP sales wise at this point. It is to tied to previous entries and those entries just dont sell well and get average reviews. I will always stand by this but Shenmue's one true hope was actual HD REMAKES or modernized remasters like the ones that sega scraped in favor of those bare minimum HD ports. Shenmue 3 was the final nail.

 

[Suzaku]

I always read things like "shenmue is bad because of the messy kickstarter prizes", but those are just gadgets and toys, not the real game, you can't judge a game by its gadgets...

the real Shenmue 3 is a very good and very polished game, unlike many other releases nowadays (bloodstained included as it was published with serious glitches).

These things should not be ignored, polished games like shenmue 3 are very rare nowadays, still no one talked about it. Instead when discussing on various forums, I see too many fans ignoring the actual pros of the game and only focusing on kickstarter prizes that arrived late and the lack of / bad story, like it was the most important things (no, a good story without a solid game would be useless, just read a book then).

Probably it's also this the reason why Shenmue remains niche.
Imagine if Bloodstained fans were the same: "kickstarter prizes are bad what a disaster" or "story is ridicolous, what a bad game", it would be a very negative fanbase and it would have never reached 1 million...

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I always read things like "shenmue is bad because of the messy kickstarter prizes", but those are just gadgets and toys, not the real game, you can't judge a game by its gadgets...

the real Shenmue 3 is a very good and very polished game, unlike many other releases nowadays (bloodstained included as it was published with serious glitches).

These things should not be ignored, polished games like shenmue 3 are very rare nowadays, still no one talked about it. Instead when discussing on various forums, I see too many fans ignoring the actual pros of the game and only focusing on kickstarter prizes that arrived late and the lack of / bad story, like it was the most important things (no, a good story without a solid game would be useless, just read a book then).

Probably it's also this the reason why Shenmue remains niche.
Imagine if Bloodstained fans were the same: "kickstarter prizes are bad what a disaster" or "story is ridicolous, what a bad game", it would be a very negative fanbase and it would have never reached 1 million...

The critics whose reviews are published on Metacritic decided the game would average about a 68, which isn't a score that attracts people with no prior interest in the series. What does that have to do with the fan base? I'm also not sure why you'd expect those of us who waited 15+ years for this game to not comment on the story. I wanted this game more than any other game I ever wanted in my life, but I wasn't about to just turn off my brain and take one on the chin once I played it. I have to be objective.

I think the thing about the fanbase is we managed to make the game an all-time Kickstarter world record holder. That's the positive story. Why not focus on that? You are looking for enemies within, when the issue is with the game itself, the questionable marketing/Kickstarter campaign, and the reception it received outside the 'fan base.'

Is the game good or bad? That's up to you. I don't hold anyone here accountable for their honest take on this game. Selling the game is Deep Silver's, and to an extent Ys Net's, job.

 

[Suzaku]

The critics whose reviews are published on Metacritic decided the game would average about a 68, which isn't a score that attracts people with no prior interest in the series. What does that have to do with the fan base? I'm also not sure why you'd expect those of us who waited 15+ years for this game to not comment on the story. I wanted this game more than any other game I ever wanted in my life, but I wasn't about to just turn off my brain and take one on the chin once I played it. I have to be objective.

I think the thing about the fanbase is we managed to make the game an all-time Kickstarter world record holder. That's the positive story. Why not focus on that? You are looking for enemies within, when the issue is with the game itself, the questionable marketing/Kickstarter campaign, and the reception it received outside the 'fan base.'

Is the game good or bad? That's up to you. I don't hold anyone here accountable for their honest take on this game. Selling the game is Deep Silver's, and to an extent Ys Net's, job.

Like I said many times, the fate of this game was sealed the moment it become a laughing stock during the kickstarter. All the negative opinions of kickstarter were transformed later in a low metascore.

of course the issues were the questionable kickstarter campaign and no marketing from deep silver, but also a part of the fanbase is to blame.

It's also not a problem of general public that apart kickstarter, was generally positive/neutral toward the game when finally released, and I always read very positive opinions from the few new people who started just with Shenmue 3 (maybe if the metascore was around 80, many people would have given the game a chance).
The biggest haters of this game were some of the vocal fans that felt entitled to go around every forums on the planet spreading their negative opinions.

Let's get it straight: it's fine to have different opinions, but given the very difficult position of this series, Shenmue fans can't act like fools, they should be wiser.
Sometime it's better to just remain silent instead of being super-negative (with the excuse of being "objective") and only damage the already slim chances to continue the series.

 

[spud1897]

Like I said many times, the fate of this game was sealed the moment it become a laughing stock during the kickstarter. All the negative opinions of kickstarter were transformed later in a low metascore.

of course the issues were the questionable kickstarter campaign and no marketing from deep silver, but also a part of the fanbase is to blame.

It's also not a problem of general public that apart kickstarter, was generally positive/neutral toward the game when finally released, and I always read very positive opinions from the few new people who started just with Shenmue 3 (maybe if the metascore was around 80, many people would have given the game a chance).
The biggest haters of this game were some of the vocal fans that felt entitled to go around every forums on the planet spreading their negative opinions.

Let's get it straight: it's fine to have different opinions, but given the very difficult position of this series, Shenmue fans can't act like fools, they should be wiser.
Sometime it's better to just remain silent instead of being super-negative (with the excuse of being "objective") and only damage the already slim chances to continue the series.

It's a tough spot. I mean the press did go after the Kickstarter with misinformation from the offset so while it gained momentum there was an undercurrent that a certain section of the gaming media weren't happy to see it back. They lost a tonne of clickbait overnight when Shenmue III was announced.

That said the kickstarter was run relatively poorly and the PR through the whole development, especially the way the epic deal was handled, was disastrous. Any good will there was shot down even though we know YSNET didn't see a penny of it.

The game was always going to divide people regardless of quality. The issue is how much. I'm one of the most staunch defenders of the game on here and even I'm holding my hands up and saying they didnt flesh the story out enough.

Reviewers were either going to love it or hate it and while we've seen extremes on both ends of the scale 67/68 on Metacritic isn't horrible. It's close to averaging 7/10. Had it been like Shenmue II I reckon it would be averaging 7.5ish which would probably attract people much more readily.

Your issue about vocal negativity is one I share but I'd prefer to distinguish this from genuine constructive criticism, which many on here give & plain shooting the series down because they didnt get what they want. Believe me when I say I regularly see posts about Shenmue III and you get the same group of people shouting "Shenmue III sucks" on every damn topic and met with rationale get defensive. This is the same few people who are trying to say Yu Suzuki made the game to deliberately piss off the fan base. They can do one quite frankly, you can say Yu Suzuki misjudged the fans that's fair but to say it was deliberate is downright hyperbole.

You will also note that this group tend to go quiet when news is lacking but pipe up within the community once a piece of news comes out.

Wider on Twitter I've seen some decent responses to those who've picked it up and gotten into it. It's not all Doom and gloom. The Tweetathons are gaining traction again and we stay vocal.

 

[Down by Law]

Shenmue 3's epic games timing was absolutely brutal. People with no interest in the game weaponized it to rally against epic and by then the damage was irreversible.

 

[Down by Law]

Wider on Twitter I've seen some decent responses to those who've picked it up and gotten into it. It's not all Doom and gloom. The Tweetathons are gaining traction again and we stay vocal.

Everytime the game comes up for sale on Hotukdeals the comments are surprisingly positive and it always gets heat.