How would you fix Shenmue 3?

[TwiceFriedRice]

Yeah that probably wasn't very smart on your part. I gather this sort of place isn't the type of forum to act like that. I get an overarching sense of positive from here as its main goal is to spread the continuity of this series. This isn't Gamefaqs or Resetera or something.

Yeah you're totally right. You've been on this board longer than I've been alive
I'm only a month old.

It’s okay to be positive, and it’s also okay to be critical. That’s how you properly respect art. There seems to be a double standard here though, as I just pointed out. I wasn’t being overly negative in the post that got warned, and in fact I have many posts on here defending the game. You seem to think that the only way we should be as fans is overly positive. You even said in one of your posts that the people being overly critical of the game aren’t real fans. That’s wrong.

And I’ve been on this board nearly 20 years. Are you seriously suggesting i just joined a month ago? Try taking a look at my joined date. Funny, I don’t remember ever seeing you post before the game was released. He’ll, you just got an avatar yesterday.

EDIT: Oh, look. Your joined date is literally just over a week ago. Look, it doesn’t matter when you joined, but if you’re going to suggest someone just joined to troll Shenmue 3, maybe you shouldn’t have a joined date a week old.

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

Actually @TwiceFriedRice the book's been out on you for a long time. I always knew you waited for Shenmue 3's imminent release to show your true hater form. Shame you had to wait 18 years to be summoned.

 

[Budgiecat]

It’s okay to be positive, and it’s also okay to be critical. That’s how you properly respect art. There seems to be a double standard here though, as I just pointed out. I wasn’t being overly negative in the post that got warned, and in fact I have many posts on here defending the game. You seem to think that the only way we should be as fans is overly positive. You even said in one of your posts that the people being overly critical of the game aren’t real fans. That’s wrong.

And I’ve been on this board nearly 20 years. Are you seriously suggesting i just joined a month ago? Try taking a look at my joined date. Funny, I don’t remember ever seeing you post before the game was released. He’ll, you just got an avatar yesterday.

No I said I was born a month ago. Then I edited it lol. I wasn't trying to suggest that you 'joined a month ago'. You misread that.
I dont really care how long you've been here. That doesnt really do anything for me. I'm not trying to be rude about that either I'm simply telling the truth about how I feel. Someone saying "i've been here longer than you" doesnt mean anything.
Not sure why you felt the need to tell me that. I don't even care how long I've been on here. I assumed you knew this anyway without having to 'look it up' since its displayed right there to the left under my username. In other words, its pointless and moot.

We're all here because we like the series. You glanced over everything I've said cumulatively since I've been here (unless you simply didnt see some of it because you were banned that day) and called me white knight. Thats combative. Thats why it reminded me of the day you got banned. I've shown that I am just as critical about this release as I am positive about it. I like the game. I shouldnt be faulted for that. But that doesnt mean I think its perfect. Its not. No game is. But I dont see the point in dwelling in the negative. You either move on or hope the series moves forward from here. Hope that it continues instead of me reading some things people here say like "Yu Suzuki needs to be stoned". Thats not supportive or helpful. Nitpicking on every little thing, getting into fights, isn't either. We all want the series to continue and be better.

One other thing:
People have been on here for nearly 20 years yes. But there's a huge difference now from the years people have been here versus the days after November 19th, aka, where time actually started moving again from the cave cliffhanger of Shenmue 2.
Now, since that date, people here have had time to finally get their hands on the continuation of the series, for bad or for good.
And so because of that, you're going to get a lot of mixed and divisive opinions on said continuation of the series which makes anything spoken about in the past 20 years after Shenmue 2 was released and the series kept on ice, null and irrelevant. Now is the time where the results of people's work on here discussing the future of the series, in addition to Yu helping to make it happen, has come to fruition. And that is why some people are positive about it and some people are negative about it; the actual physical release, not just talking about the what if up until 2015's actual announcement.

 

[TwiceFriedRice]

No I said I was born a month ago. Then I edited it lol.
I dont really care how long you've been here. That doesnt really do anything for me. I'm not trying to be rude about that either I'm simply telling the truth about how I feel. Someone saying "ive been here longer than you" doesnt mean anything.
Not sure why you felt the need to tell me that.

We're all here because we like the series. You glanced over everything I've said cumulatively since I've been here (unless you simply didnt see some of it because you were banned that day) and called me white knight. Thats combative. Thats why it reminded me of the day you got banned.
One other thing:
People have been on here for nearly 20 years yes. But there's a huge difference now from the years people have been here versus the days after November 19th, aka, where time actually started moving again from the cave cliffhanger of Shenmue 2.
Now, since that date, people here have had time to finally get their hans on the continuation of the series, for bad or for good.
And so because of that, you're going to get a lot of mixed and divisive opinions on said continuation of the series which makes anything spoken about in the past 20 years after Shenmue 2 was released and the series kept on ice, null and irrelevant. Now is the time where the results of people's work on here discussing the future of the series, in addition to Yu helping to make it happen, has come to fruition. And that is why some people are positive about it and some people are negative about it; the actual physical release, not just talking about the what if up until 2015's actual announcement.

I only mentioned my joined date to show that I'm not a toxic member. 20 years and never getting so much as a warning speaks for itself. Speaking of glancing over other people's points...

And I've read most of your defenses, and they all boil down to the same thing: Saying people are only criticizing the game because they wanted greater information dumps or wanted the story to conclude (which is a strawman, no one ever said that) AND/OR going out of your way to suggest that Shenmue 3 was supposed to be something different narrative-wise as if that excuses the poor storytelling. That's my issue with your arguments. I have no issue with you liking the story, and I have never said otherwise.

I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm not going to respond to anymore of your posts in this section in regards to the game. It really is starting to become toxic, because we're on the verge of derailing threads going after each other. It's probably for the best if we just kindly move along from this point on.

 

[I Got Sriracha In My DNA]

I mean the divisiveness right now kind of sucks. But it brings back some good memories too. I remember people fighting about the necessity of Disc 4 or about the inclusion of magic in Shenmue 2 back in the day.

At least these discussions make this forum feel really relevant again.

 

[TwiceFriedRice]

I mean the divisiveness right now kind of sucks. But it brings back some good memories. I remember people fighting about the necessity of Disc 4 or about the inclusion of magic in Shenmue 2 back in the day.

At least these discussions make this forum feel really relevant again.

Not a bad point, actually.

 

[kaliskonig91]

- Bailu Chapter:
o A real fight with Chai at the end and he dies this time for good.
o feng needs more development with Ryo. We should be able to visit him every day, Practice at the tree Iwao did, and he should tell us more things about Iwao. Feng should have described a side of Iwao that Ryo didnt even know existed. like Iwao was always cheerful and friendly.
o Shenhua, Feng, or either Sun should have gifted Ryo the green garb from the concept art. In fact, make it so that Feng gifts it to you and its tattered and Shenhua fix's it up for you. Make it so that it was something your ather trained in under Feng and Feng kept it just becausehe felt like he should as if he knew he would meet Ryo someday.
o Ye should have had some insight on the prophecy
o Give the martial arts girl and big guy more scenes with Ryo that develops into genuine friendships

- Chobu Chapter:
o Okay this chapter was completely freaking filler and should have been skipped in favor of a fully realized Baisha chapter to begin with but...
o Seeing as how Lan-di's main base is literally across the river, this chapter should have been about us actually learning about the Chi You Men and our first hints that they are even bigger than we imagined and our first tease about the 4 branch's.
o Shrine Maiden needs a redesign. WTF is she in Japanese Shrine Maiden attire?
o We dont need 140 freaking shops. Cut them to half and increase the NPC's walking around
o Maiden and fat guy should have had more development to make the friendship seem real. The crush the Shrine girl has on Ryo is cute. I would have liked more of that and for us to actually get to know her.
o the Niao Sun plot. Was just bad. She should have been growing close to Ryo. to the point that we see Ryo start to even trust her and show her the mirror.
o Paying 5000 for the reverse body Check only for the last page to be missing andwe learn it from someone after all of that...and its pretty much just the same move we paid 2000 bucks for. Just no!

- General:
o Get rid of the stamina system. It didnt bother me personally but it adds nothing positive to the game and is just another way to drain your income to make progression slower
o More methods of training. Like we should be able to strike the horse stance dummy or punch the tree Iwao trained under.
o Everything that Baisha was supposed to be should not have been cut
o The siege game, perspective system, and ability to take Shenhua with you.
o Needed more new tracks and better looping. No remix of Earth and Sea is a sin in itself and the credits music was an insult.
o Better clothing options. All of the Martial Arts clothes look bulky as hell.
o Some NPC's are too ugly. Fix them.
o The villains in this game were just bad and a joke. fix that
o Jobs should pay more or give you a raise like the fork lifting in Shenmue 1 did. Like if you cut a certain amount of wood you get a raise or meet your quota with the fork lift you get one.
o Fishing should pay a little more or at least give huge payouts for rare fish
o Gambling betting limit should be tripled. Especially since it is encouraged that you use gambling in this game to progress and make money.
o the combat. I dont mind that its not like Virtua Fighter anymore but combat is just weak as hell
o everything about the ending and Shenhuas dad not really telling as anything outside of Lan-Di being raised by the Chi You Men
o Story inconsistencies. There is a topic on this already.

 

[Budgiecat]

I only mentioned my joined date to show that I'm not a toxic member. 20 years and never getting so much as a warning speaks for itself. Speaking of glancing over other people's points...

And I've read most of your defenses, and they all boil down to the same thing: Saying people are only criticizing the game because they wanted greater information dumps or wanted the story to conclude (which is a strawman, no one ever said that) AND/OR going out of your way to suggest that Shenmue 3 was supposed to be something different narrative-wise as if that excuses the poor storytelling. That's my issue with your arguments. I have no issue with you liking the story, and I have never said otherwise.

I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm not going to respond to anymore of your posts in this section in regards to the game. It really is starting to become toxic, because we're on the verge of derailing threads going after each other. It's probably for the best if we just kindly move along from this point on.

I dont know about your past. All I can go on is what you have said about yourself, and your actions.
And if you had the drive to tell a mod to 'go fuck himself', then that kinda supersedes any good will karma you've accumulated in the past near 20 years here. I can only be honest with my assessment of that.
I will tell you though, I'm no saint in the realm of being banned myself, so I am fully aware of being on the bad side of other people's opinions.
I have been banned from:
Siliconera
Gematsu
Gamefaqs
Dualshockers
Twitter

People often get triggered when you give them a dose of the Reality Stone.

But I imagined that a place like this was not the type of place for that. I came here in the hopes of celebrating the release of this game; to escape the negativity even though I myself am critical of this game like anyone else. I see no purpose in dwelling on it here. Thats probably why I never really had a desire to be here prior. I knew Shenmue 1 and 2 were great games. Why would I come here those years only to sit around other people who knew the same thing and we all sit around wondering when the game will ever come? Then again, I had no desire ever to go to NeoGef, Resetera or Reddit either. Not sure why.
Anyways, what I guess I was trying to say in order for this series to continue, I think it needs the support of its community and right now that needs to be positive. Its got haters from all sides coming in: overly critical reviewers, bitter Xbox fanboys, Yakuza only fans (odd to me but whatever), mainstream AAA open world fans, Kojima fanboys (since it was this months competition), angry PC Steam only users, etc.
The fact this game even came out is still astonishing to me. The fact it was even made on this paltry budget is astonishing. So, I really didnt have my expectations that this was going to be AAA like material. Yakuza 1 alone on PS2 cost 20 million to make, more thant double this did. Hell, Too Human and Deadpool cost 100 million, El Shaddai cost 80 million. And who knows what was poured into Mass Effect Andromeda. Get my point here?
So I'm just saying moving forward, in order to 'avoid this toxicity' you speak of, it might help you not just to 'not respond to my posts', but to gather yourself and realize its not really productive for the potential future of this series which has always been in a fragile state, to be like this. If you think thats being 'white knight' then whatever. But imo its not. Especially since this whole thread's point was 'what would you fix', and I contributed already my own suggestions to what I would fix in this game in order for it to run better, albeit it more realistic suggestions rather than revamping the entire game...

 

[spud1897]

One personal gripe is the fact there's no system that tells you which moves you do and don't have. So you end up buying moves twice! That's annoying.

 

[Budgiecat]

One personal gripe is the fact there's no system that tells you which moves you do and don't have. So you end up buying moves twice! That's annoying.

whats the total number of scrolls again? Currently I have 85 scrolls, but I'm still missing:

Turbulent Thrust (still need a full Plate Set)
Dancing Swallow (Capsule Toy SP3 set. Still need Vase 1 and Yellow Bobber)
Scorpion Tail (Lucky Hit Prize Set 3....missing Black Hawk where the hell is this thing??)
Charging Fist (Lucky Hit Prize Set 4...missing Bronze Cauldron...also where is this?)
Tiger Combo (Antique Toy Set....missing Dragon Carving because I missed the Niaowu Fortune Teller side quest)

So that would make a total 90 scrolls since I already have all 7 scrolls from the Herb Sets, all 11 scrolls from the Shop Cards, 11 out of the 13 scrolls from the Capsule Sets, 10 out of the 12 scrolls from the Prize Sets, and 15 out of the 16 Other Sets (yes I have Eclipse Kick)

Are there any others?

I feel like there may be one more....

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

I suppose this is really more of a hypothetical "do over"?

To be honest, I think the game would have to be scoped down significantly more than is commonly suggested to get a lot of the polish and fleshed out story beats that we'd like. This is probably a bit out of left field, but I would keep the entire story set in Bailu Village and maybe price this as a $40 mostly digital sales game (unless it can be a pretty solidly told 20+ hour game). Maybe that's a harder sell to a publisher and kickstarter backers, who knows.

Essentially, make this a chapter about fleshing out the story of the Phoenix Mirror, Shenhua, Iwao and Sunmings training and friendship, the prophecy and Ryo's growth (looking a bit more inward, spending time training). I would also like a bigger sense that this is an isolated village with a history of martial arts training and masters, and Ryo takes many steps forward. Eventually there would be moments where the village is attacked, fights occurring on the outskirts of the village while Ryo is looking for Yuan, etc.

Yeah, there would be no Lan Di or Niao Sun, but maybe some references to them from thugs or Chi You Men members. Or have some final cutscene from the perspective of the Chi You Men that show Lan Di and Niao Sun talking about the mirrors, or figure out that you have the Phoenix Mirror (they're coming for you in Shenmue 4, boom!). Have Yuan be saved from a hideout outside of town, essentially rescue him in the part of the story where he's supposed to get shipped to Niaowu. Then maybe Yuan gives you a tip to head to Niaowu and/or Baisha for Shenmue 4. Ryo says "thanks!" and bows.

For gameplay:

• Stamina - possibly have a separate meter for health/stamina, reduce or remove the penalty for running
• Investigate system - remove the extra "zoom" step and just have Ryo interact with the object (Herb, Drawer, Fruit, etc). Every interaction needs to be quicker.
• A few more branching paths to get from "point A to point B".
• More variation in training activities (including the story based "teaching moments")
• Fast Travel and time skip available more often.
• I like the idea of sitting down for meals to replenish stamina.

 

[HazukiFCBR]

I suppose this is really more of a hypothetical "do over"?

To be honest, I think the game would have to be scoped down significantly more than is commonly suggested to get a lot of the polish and fleshed out story beats that we'd like. This is probably a bit out of left field, but I would keep the entire story set in Bailu Village and maybe price this as a $40 mostly digital sales game (unless it can be a pretty solidly told 20+ hour game). Maybe that's a harder sell to a publisher and kickstarter backers, who knows.

Essentially, make this a chapter about fleshing out the story of the Phoenix Mirror, Shenhua, Iwao and Sunmings training and friendship, the prophecy and Ryo's growth (looking a bit more inward, spending time training). I would also like a bigger sense that this is an isolated village with a history of martial arts training and masters, and Ryo takes many steps forward. Eventually there would be moments where the village is attacked, fights occurring on the outskirts of the village while Ryo is looking for Yuan, etc.

Yeah, there would be no Lan Di or Niao Sun, but maybe some references to them from thugs or Chi You Men members. Or have some final cutscene from the perspective of the Chi You Men that show Lan Di and Niao Sun talking about the mirrors, or figure out that you have the Phoenix Mirror (they're coming for you in Shenmue 4, boom!). Have Yuan be saved from a hideout outside of town, essentially rescue him in the part of the story where he's supposed to get shipped to Niaowu. Then maybe Yuan gives you a tip to head to Niaowu and/or Baisha for Shenmue 4. Ryo says "thanks!" and bows.

For gameplay:

• Stamina - possibly have a separate meter for health/stamina, reduce or remove the penalty for running
• Investigate system - remove the extra "zoom" step and just have Ryo interact with the object (Herb, Drawer, Fruit, etc). Every interaction needs to be quicker.
• A few more branching paths to get from "point A to point B".
• More variation in training activities (including the story based "teaching moments")
• Fast Travel and time skip available more often.
• I like the idea of sitting down for meals to replenish stamina.

Wanna know what makes me sad the most? A true fan, as you, would do a better job. Probably 90% of the fan base would do it. I know i need to stop mourning this game. And get back to Shen1&2 asap.

 

[iknifaugood]

Investigate system - remove the extra "zoom" step and just have Ryo interact with the object (Herb, Drawer, Fruit, etc). Every interaction needs to be quicker.

THIS! I actually said this to a friend while we were playing and he responded with “that’s what Shenmue has always been like”. I think this mentality is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. As much as the original games were lauded as the “open any drawer” games, you’re actually really limited in this regard to Ryo’s house in the first game and a few environments where you have to explore and find things (Yuanda Zhu’s office, the wiretapper, Shenhua’s house) in the second game. What’s the point of dozens of identical cabinets with nothing in them?

2. Shenmue already doesn’t do this! You don’t have to stop what you’re doing, aim at a door and then press interact, you just press interact!

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

THIS! I actually said this to a friend while we were playing and he responded with “that’s what Shenmue has always been like”. I think this mentality is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. As much as the original games were lauded as the “open any drawer” games, you’re actually really limited in this regard to Ryo’s house in the first game and a few environments where you have to explore and find things (Yuanda Zhu’s office, the wiretapper, Shenhua’s house) in the second game. What’s the point of dozens of identical cabinets with nothing in them?

2. Shenmue already doesn’t do this! You don’t have to stop what you’re doing, aim at a door and then press interact, you just press interact!

Agreed on both points, and I honestly didn't mind how Shenmue 2 only had interactions at certain gameplay moments. I would really prefer this in the series going foward. However, back in the day I remember people being upset that the drawer interactions took a back seat in Shenmue 2, so maybe Yu overcompensated in 3 due to fan feedback, haha.

 

[Budgiecat]

Agreed on both points, and I honestly didn't mind how Shenmue 2 only had interactions at certain gameplay moments. I would really prefer this in the series going foward. However, back in the day I remember people being upset that the drawer interactions took a back seat in Shenmue 2, so maybe Yu overcompensated in 3 due to fan feedback, haha.

resource expensive. Shenmue 2 was a much bigger game than Shenmue 1 but yet still running on the same hardware. Somethings needed to be sacrificed.

 

[spud1897]

Wanna know what makes me sad the most? A true fan, as you, would do a better job. Probably 90% of the fan base would do it. I know i need to stop mourning this game. And get back to Shen1&2 asap.

With all due respect isn't this a little wide of the mark? Whatever you think of the game itself you won't find a studio which could pack in what YSNET did.

Now is that what was best for the game in terms of story content? Probably not. I'm viewing Shenmue III as a game that's a proof of concept. The core systems for a Shenmue 4 exist so if given the chance I think you'd find yourself playing a fuller story.

 

[gladias9]

With all due respect isn't this a little wide of the mark? Whatever you think of the game itself you won't find a studio which could pack in what YSNET did.

Now is that what was best for the game in terms of story content? Probably not. I'm viewing Shenmue III as a game that's a proof of concept. The core systems for a Shenmue 4 exist so if given the chance I think you'd find yourself playing a fuller story.

Will agree, YS Net gave me something that exceeded all of my expectations for a kickstarter game.
It just sucks that they couldn't at least get all 3 locations in there. If there is a next time then I want them to set different priorities.

 

[hmjohnny]

THIS! I actually said this to a friend while we were playing and he responded with “that’s what Shenmue has always been like”. I think this mentality is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. As much as the original games were lauded as the “open any drawer” games, you’re actually really limited in this regard to Ryo’s house in the first game and a few environments where you have to explore and find things (Yuanda Zhu’s office, the wiretapper, Shenhua’s house) in the second game. What’s the point of dozens of identical cabinets with nothing in them?

2. Shenmue already doesn’t do this! You don’t have to stop what you’re doing, aim at a door and then press interact, you just press interact!

While Shenmue 1 and 2 did limit the places where you can interact with every object, Shenmue 3 mostly limits it to Shenhua's house and a couple of investigative scenes.

That being said it does go overboard with the number of drawers at times turning those scenes into elongated item hunts.

I think you could still trim it down though. having to press the action button twice to open a drawer (once to select, once to open) is a bit needless. Same thing for the herbs.

But I don't fault them for this much, they were trying to experiment with new gameplay ideas (even if they didn't always work) and felt they had to tie the game feel back to the originals somewhat to make the game feel familiar. Also, you don't actually have to open the drawers if you don't want to.

For me a better QOL adjustment would be to skip dialogue/cutscenes; something the earlier games did have ironically.

 

[That Guy.]

Not a full list but....

Stamina would be tied to only fighting and training. Walking and running should not drain it. Make a lot of the food worth more HP for it to be worth something.

Attack leveling up will not be tied to learning new moves. This will always go up when you battle. A real fight should have your stats go up too, but not as much as sparring.

11pm curfew in Niaowu instead of 9pm, no, make that in Bailu as well. Around 7pm, Ryo, will mention how late it is getting, and you'll end up getting a prompt to teleport back to Shenhua's house or in Niaowu, the hotel if you want to.

Give Ryo and Shenhua more conversations. At least a dozen of them per section in the game between Bailu and Niaowu. It pretty much stopped too soon. This would had affected how Shenhua treats you and speaks to you in the game depending on how you answer some of her questions.

Would have made fast traveling better than it was.

Niao Sun's presence was weak. Defiantly would have made her befriend Ryo and Shenhua as to get information out of them about everything they know about the mirrors and what not. She would be doing this by giving them information in return. Some would not see this coming considering how close I would have gotten them. After all of that, she would steal the mirror and what not. Not sure how this twist will reveal itself since there are many ways that could had happen. I was thinking of a playable fight where Ryo would lose to her once this all happens. I was expecting this in the game actually.

Would have never scrapped Baisha for sure since this story element seemed to have been very important. Would had made cuts to others things instead.

I would have replaced the muscles guy with that Chiyoumen leader who is a tactician that you would had one last fight against at the castle as well, but would be able to beat him after learning about his style of fighting and a weakness to be exploited. That would mean the red snake saga would had ended in Bailu and they would had been replaced with Chiyoumen thugs instead. I mean the "mid-level boss" could have been Ziming instead as well, I mean that would have been better, but that will lead to different ideas for that one.

That is all I could have think of for now. I mean some of the story ideas are far off from what Yu wanted, but at this point, the story is already being rushed along, so might as well play out some of these elements early in that case, especially if you were to make 4 the last game (not sure if that will be the case) which needs to be as story packed as possible.

 

[Budgiecat]

Would have never scrapped Baisha for sure since this story element seemed to have been very important. Would had made cuts to others things instead.

I dont see how you could salvage an entire town cut just by cutting other minor things out. Thats too huge.